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A guide to Charging Orders & Orders for Sale

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Thanks again Shadow going to have a good read and decipher,

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subbing


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Good Morning, Could some of you please take a quick look at this thread, in particular posts #1,5 & 8. Am very unsure as to how to approach this case if am in a position to at all? Many thankyous!

M'pols x

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?184665-Northern-Rock-Q-Whats-wrong-here


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With regards to:

Section 1(5) of The Charging Orders Act 1979 which reads...

 

in deciding whether to make a charging order the court shall consider all the circumstances of the case and, in particular, any evidence before it as to-

 

(b) whether any other creditor of the debtor would be likely to be undult prejudiced by the making of the order

 

A Charging Order has just been made final against me and I was told at Court that there is NO requirement to contact or take other UNSECURED Creditors into consideration - only secured creditotrs.

Is this right - can I appeal?

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Hi

Sorry for any delay-this is really complex.I have just gone through it myself. It is true that they do not need to contact unsecured creditors. You have had the final hearing-do you have any equity in the home? or is it all used up.If you have none or you are a joint owner the position is different?

 

This is a real complex area and full of problems and with little support from the courts or anywhere else.Let me know as much as you can and I will help

 

Simon

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Thanks Simon - I am well clued up on this now....there is equity...but not enough to pay all creditors...only about 60%. Just anbnoyed that natwest seem to want preferential treatment. But as the loans are in single name (mine) and property is joint it is only a (meaningless) restrictions anyway.

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Thanks Simon - I am well clued up on this now....there is equity...but not enough to pay all creditors...only about 60%. Just anbnoyed that natwest seem to want preferential treatment. But as the loans are in single name (mine) and property is joint it is only a (meaningless) restrictions anyway.

 

 

Whilst Restrictions are not much use to a Claimant if the Defendant sell his house, the Claimant can still apply for an Order For Sale off the back of a Restriction...

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Hi ,

I have a charging order on my property from Arrow Global who purchased a £5k debt from MBNA- i am with a debt management company PayPlan & owe £28k all tolled to other creditors. They have all accepted my offers of payment & have for the past 3yrs. I have made token payments to MBNA then to Arrow Global but they still went for a CCJ then a charging order. The judge ruled i would pay the amount i had offered them through PayPlan £27pm & would allow the charging order to give them security. As i have a 14mth old baby the judge ordered as long as maintained the £27 under the CCJ they may not apply for an order of sale.

I have today received a letter from Arrow Global Solicitors saying if i do not contact them in 7 day with a releastic offer of payment they will apply to the court for an order of sale. I am at my witts end now with this company. The judge, Payplan, even the creditors representative at the court hearing said this would'nt happen.

Can they do this when the charging order states they can't as long as i make the payments? my next worry is they'll say they have'nt had the payments !!! i pay them via payplan.

Help what can i do - i am so stressed i will lose my home & be homeless with a baby, i don't know what to do next. I can't afford a solicitor.

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Chumpychops, could you poss post up the details of the judgement, exactly what it says leaving out anything identifying.

 

If the judge set in writing that the payments were t be maintained and no further action allowed so long as they are met then AG can whistle for more money without going back to the court and applying for a variation or set aside.

 

Oh and the chances of a judge throwing a mother with a young child on the streets I would think are slim.

 

S.


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Hi Chumpychomps,

Welcome to CAG :-).

So sorry to read of your problems, please try not to worry as it sounds as if the judge made it vey plain that they couldn't force a sale.

I would guess that either they know this full well and are just chancing their arm trying to panic you into upping payments without going back to court, or some desk jockey has sent this out without checking the order.

 

As Shadow says, can you let us know exactly what the order says.

In any event, I would also ring Payplan tomorrow and tell them about the letter, see what they say.

Once you have confirmation from Payplan that all your payments have been made

it would also be a good idea to write back to Arrows Solicitors complaining about their threats and enclosing a copy of the order. We can help you with the letter if you wish.

To be honest, if it was me I would be happier paying the money myself each month rather than through Payplan, when a CCJ is involved.

How was the original CCJ obtained? Did you admit the claim or was it by default?

 

kind regards.

Elsa x


PLEASE NOTE... I AM MOST SORRY BUT I HAVE VERY LIMITED AVAILABILITY AT THE MOMENT DUE TO EXTREME PRESSURE OF WORK - IF YOU REQUIRE URGENT HELP ON YOUR THREAD AND ARE GETTING NO RESPONSE PLEASE HIT THE TRIANGLE FOR SITE TEAM ASSISTANCE. ELSA XXX

 

Please check out my BLOG for the quick guide to debt threats - it has all the info & letter template links you need to get started on your journey of TAKING CONTROL. :roll:

 

All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

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Hi- thanks for the replies

 

I was left in debt a number of years ago by my ex partner, everything we borrowed (loans & cards) were in my name, stupid i know :-x so when he went i was lumbered. I always paid token payments, never did'nt pay something & all other creditors have been OK, or passed to 3rd parties who have accepted my payments. Arrow Global have been a nightmare !!! they refused the proposed payment & so therefore went for a CCJ knowing then they could also ask for a charging order to be attached. As the judge saw i had been paying he kept the payment the same but attached the charging order for the creditors security to be fair to them. I objected with EVERY objection advised on the web,CAB & via PayPlan but to no avail, the only safeguard i had was the judge agreed no order for sale was to be made.

The final charging order reads:

 

1. The charge created by the order made on 1st june shall continue

2. The interest of the debtor (me) in the asset described (my home) stand charged with payment of the sum £5842 the amount now owing under a judgement order given on 21 july 2010, together with court costs added

3. So long as the defendant pays £27 per month towards the judgement debt the claiment may not apply for an order of sale.

 

 

i forgot to mention the CCJ was last year & it took them a year to apply for the charging order, i tackled this as i had been paying so asked them why - i was told by the 'polite' advisor that that was none of my business !!!!!!!

I'm guessing they can still apply to the court for a hearing, but surely any judge won't overturn the ruling without good reason ? ie me not paying, plus as you've said i have a baby ? this is why i am very concerned they will say in the future the payments are not being made to try & get there own way - even though there is confirmation of them being sent direct to thier bank account.... how else can i pay ??? i just don't trust them !

There is no point complaining to them or a manager, i've tried.. but i do think they are harrasing me & trying to scare me into paying a higher amount. Can i make a complaint to the FO/FSA or similar ?

 

It's so nice to be able to talk this through with someone (noone else knows any of this, not even my partner) as i've been dealing with all this stress alone - thank you x

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1. The charge created by the order made on 1st june shall continue

2. The interest of the debtor (me) in the asset described (my home) stand charged with payment of the sum £5842 the amount now owing under a judgement order given on 21 july 2010, together with court costs added

3. So long as the defendant pays £27 per month towards the judgement debt the claiment may not apply for an order of sale.

 

Ok, so thats pretty clear... they would have to seek to vary the order imho, so long as you are paying then they are on a sticky wicket :)

 

S.


Are You as Anonymous on CAG as You Think You Are? *Link*

 

The CAG is a free help site,should you be offered help that requires payment,please report it to site team.

 

Deal with your debts:

STEP ONE - Dont Panic! | STEP TWO - Priority & Non Priority Debts | STEP THREE - Personal Budget Sheet | STEP FOUR - A SAFE bank Account | STEP FIVE - Dealing with Priority Debts | STEP SIX - Non-priority Debts | STEP SEVEN - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt1 | STEP EIGHT - Non-Priority Debt-Repayment Opt2 | STEP NINE - Perils of Consolidation | STEP TEN - RE-Evaluate Frequently

 

***** SERIOUSLY IN DEBT, DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, TRY NationalDebtLine's MoneySteps *****

 

 

IMPORTANT: Please take my advice in the spirit it is given and on the basis that I am expressing my opinion, These opinions are not endorsed by CAG in anyway and are offered informally without prejudice or warranty of any kind. These opinions are solely based upon the knowledge I've gained from this fantastic site and life in general. I have NO legal training.

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Hi Chumpy,

There's nothing worse than carrying all that worry on your own shoulders, but you've come to the right place as there as so many people on here with similar problems, who understand and will not judge. That's how I ended up here :wink:.

Speak to your case manager at Payplan today, and we'll take it from there re how to respond to these bullies. I imagine you'll need to send a copy of the DCA's letter to Payplan. You could report them to the Office of Fair Trading for their aggressive tactics.

 

Elsa xx


PLEASE NOTE... I AM MOST SORRY BUT I HAVE VERY LIMITED AVAILABILITY AT THE MOMENT DUE TO EXTREME PRESSURE OF WORK - IF YOU REQUIRE URGENT HELP ON YOUR THREAD AND ARE GETTING NO RESPONSE PLEASE HIT THE TRIANGLE FOR SITE TEAM ASSISTANCE. ELSA XXX

 

Please check out my BLOG for the quick guide to debt threats - it has all the info & letter template links you need to get started on your journey of TAKING CONTROL. :roll:

 

All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

Please click the *star* of any CAG member who has helped you .

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Perhaps send a copy of that judgment with the relevant statement highlighted to Arrow's solicitors.. that should shut them up.


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some recent info

 

re charging orders and orders for sale

 

in short, gov't seems committed to bringing in force s93 TCE Act which basically 'introduces' (yes, 'introduces'. so technically not yet applicable! but soon will be) the ability for the courts to grant a charging order along side an instalment order currently in place despite that inst order not being in arrears.

and, to 'streamline' the co application.

also, consideration of a threshold re orders for sale.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/consultations/Enf_IA_orders_for_sale_-_final_version_as_signed_off_by_ministers.pdf

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/consultations/Enf_IA_charging_orders_-_final_version_as_signed_off_by_ministers.pdf

charging-orders-response-ia[1].pdf

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?343089-Charging-Orders-discussion(9-Viewing)-nbsp

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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further info re above post, the MoJ have decided on the threshold re orders for sale at £1,000! etc

orders-for-sale-response-ia.pdf

 

discussion here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?343089-Charging-Orders-discussion/page4


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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Need to proceed with an Adjournment time frame.

We have been granted time to resist anapplication for “Order of sale” from the creditor. Now what is the best option to proceed?

Request to dismiss the creditor applicationas I am the joint owner of the property and debt is not on my name but only onmy husband name

Apply for suspension of the order on termsuntil my kids are over 18 as the house is a family home

 

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Hi does anyone know whether a Charging order can remain in place when the accounts which formed the basis of the judgment order have been closed by the bank.They have not officially wrote informing me of this.

 

The bank cannot supply statements for the amount owed.

 

All data about me has been archived and the Banks SAR team has been ubable to retrieve it.

 

The solicitor that was instructed to apply for the CCJ and the charging order has been told by the bank to close its file.

 

Their is no specific department at the bank that I can discuss this with, because they now have no record of the accounts or me, I fail the security questions.

 

My letters go unanswered.

 

Is it fair that the Charging order remains in place.

 

The RBS have closed the accounts because I discovered irregularities with the way they had been set up and were being managed.

 

Any suggestions would be welcomed.

 

Debbie

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further info re above post, the MoJ have decided on the threshold re orders for sale at £1,000! etc

[/url]

 

In the consultation paper the MOJ stated that there was now "Case Law" that prevented the sale of family or primary residencies. In response to my request for the relevant cases concerned they replied with the following details;

 

We spoke earlier on today. You wanted to know about the case law in existence that provided added protections to defendants facing Order for Sale. I have attached our 2010 consultation which was published under the previous Government. Page 10-11 provides the case law referred to. In summary -

 

  • Caselaw - 'Mesher' type orders – provides protection as long as a minor is resident at the property concerned. The use of such orders was confirmed by a ruling in the case of Harman vs. Glencross 1986. Further powers are provided in the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996.
  • Caselaw - Royal Bank of Scotland vs. Etridge 2001 - This case established the precedent that, where a joint loan has been taken out by, with a jointly owned property as collateral, such as the matrimonial home, it is incumbent on the lender to explain to all lendees at the time of signing the potential consequences of default. In this case it was ruled that one party had signed the forms without being informed by the lender of the possible consequences and that the Royal Bank of Scotland did not have the legal right to enforce by way of charging order.
  • Caselaw - Bank of Ireland Home Mortgages vs. Bell 2001 - This case established the circumstances in which an order for sale would be granted, even if it concerns a family home. The equity available on the property must be sufficient to pay off the judgment creditor and all other interested parties and still leave enough money to adequately rehouse the debtor and dependants.

 

  • Haha 2

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thanks for that info eggboxy, useful


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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So viewing that caselaw quoted this would seem to say if I had a charging order they wouldn't be able to obtain an order of sale unless there was sufficient equity to pay the mortgage off and the charging order?

I know that a possible defence against an order of sale is insufficent equity - notwithstanding that it would be daft to be taken to court be these leeches when they wont see a penny but often common sense with these companies go out of the window.

Furthermore is it also possible that the mortgage company could oppose an order of sale n the basis that the house is in negative equity and they wont see their money back either?

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So viewing that caselaw quoted this would seem to say if I had a charging order they wouldn't be able to obtain an order of sale unless there was sufficient equity to pay the mortgage off and the charging order?

I know that a possible defence against an order of sale is insufficent equity - notwithstanding that it would be daft to be taken to court be these leeches when they wont see a penny but often common sense with these companies go out of the window.

Furthermore is it also possible that the mortgage company could oppose an order of sale n the basis that the house is in negative equity and they wont see their money back either?

 

Yes, I think the final scenario would apply to you mercyblue... I agree that it makes absolutely no sense at all to force a sale in the event that there would be no funds for the Judgment creditor once the mortgage provider had been repaid. !

 

x

 

Caselaw - Bank of Ireland Home Mortgages vs. Bell 2001 - This case established the circumstances in which an order for sale would be granted, even if it concerns a family home. The equity available on the property must be sufficient to pay off the judgment creditor and all other interested parties and still leave enough money to adequately rehouse the debtor and dependants.

 


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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i have read that the OFT have recently placed sanctions(?) on a couple of banks/BS's because of their eagerness to apply for charging order on debts below £5,000 to try and secure the debt. what if any effect/implications will this have on the other banks/BS and the way they operate in this area?

 

im querying as i have a personal interest. i do not have the protection of restriction (K) and am worried that if a CO is granted, the CC provider will return to court, and i may be forced to sell my home becasue the CC provider wants the debt paid off more quickly.

 

at any CO application hearing would it be feasible for me to quote what has happened just recently with the OFT to help argue against the award of a CO and thereby encouraging my CC provider to accept instead installment payments?

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1412 days.

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