Lloyds plan to defend

[Tomk099]

I have just received a letter from the court with an attached sheet.

It is from Lloyds' solicitors stating that they are intending to defend all of the claim.

Is this usual of the Lloyds.

 

Solictors are Sechiari Clark & Mitchell, Brighton.

 

Any advice would be most appreciated.

 

Tom

[moontrev]

Hiya,

 

I have just had the same letter from Piper Rudnick Gray Cary who represent Abbey, I wrote back stating that I was still going to pursue my claim, and this morning got another mail offering me 50% of my claim. Now I have written back claiming the full ammount, and am just waiting to see what happens.

I assume that they don't really want to go to court so will make an improved offer. So don't worry or get stressed, stand your ground

Cheers

Trev

[Bean]

I have just received a letter from the court with an attached sheet.

It is from Lloyds' solicitors stating that they are intending to defend all of the claim.

Is this usual of the Lloyds.

 

Solictors are Sechiari Clark & Mitchell, Brighton.

 

Any advice would be most appreciated

 

Entirely standard stuff, see my thread for example:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/4887-beans-timeline-joint-acct.html

 

You may wish to compare the text of their defence for your claim with the text for mine.

[paulson1985]

Yes dont worry they always defend.

 

You will recieve an allocation questionaire from the court in due course.

 

Fill it in and send it back with the aditional fee (if appropiate) you will then recieve a court date, hopefully they will settle before the date.

 

I have a court date 26th Sept. and the same solicitor.

 

I have noticed one or two are getting settlement offers now from SCM.

 

 

Good Luck

[Tomk099]

Thanks Trev.

 

Who did you send your letter to?

 

The bank or the solicitors?

[moontrev]

Hiya,

 

I sent it straight to the solicitors, and it is of note that the signature on the defence form looked as though it was that of a young teenager, probably doing work experience.

I'll keep you posted:)

[Tomk099]

Cheers,

 

Did you use a letter template from the forum?

 

The form I've got back is printed in the signature box.

 

So no actual person to send it to

 

Tom

[moontrev]

No,

 

I simply re-stated my case, in that their charges were wholly disproportionate to the cost incurred to them.

 

I intend being represented by an IT expert, who will state that this is an automated system, requiring no manual intervention. I will be further represented by my brother, a retired Bank Manager and holder of the AIB qualification (associate of the institute of bankers) who will state that the true cost of this should be no more than the cost of paper, printing and franking of the letter.

 

I will have my solicitor present also, as I will not take any risks other than those absolutely necessary.

 

Hope this helps

 

Cheers

 

Trev

[Tomk099]

Hi,

 

Do you mean re-sending the original letter to the bank claiming back the charges?

 

Cheers

 

Tom

[moontrev]

Tom,

No, the bank have passed this onto the solicitors, so I will deal directly with them. They will probably have pre determined parameters from the bank within which to deal. We'll see what happens next.

[Tomk099]

They have disputed the whole amount of the claim.

I received the Allocations Qustionaire this morning with a copy of the defence attached.

 

Its very long winded, see below

 

Defence

 

1. The defendant Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the bank) is a bank whose registered office is 25 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claiment has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

2. The Defendant will object that the Particulars of Claim in this action disclose no reasonable cause of action against the Defendant and makes no allegations against the Defendant as to why the Defendant should be liable to the Claiment for the amount claimed.

3. The Particulars of Claim do not comply with the Civil Procedure Rules as (amongst other things) they do not show how the sum of £4,159.52 is arrived at and the Particulars of Claim are to vague. The Statement of Claim shows no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

4. The Claiment should, therefore, be ordered to file and serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for his claim as there is no pleaded basis for the claim itself. The Claimant should give full particulars of the charges he is seeking to recover, identifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge and why the claimant in each case he alleges it is a disproportionate penalty and thus unlawful.

5. For the avoidance of doubt, by opening an account with the bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services.

 

And goes on to state services which the bank provides.

 

I presume this is a pretty standard thing with the Lloyds from what I have read elsewhere on the site.

[Dappa44]

Very standard mate, just part of the process.

[Bean]

...2. The Defendant will object that the Particulars of Claim in this action disclose no reasonable cause of action against the Defendant and makes no allegations against the Defendant as to why the Defendant should be liable to the Claiment for the amount claimed.

3. The Particulars of Claim do not comply with the Civil Procedure Rules as (amongst other things) they do not show how the sum of £4,159.52 is arrived at and the Particulars of Claim are to vague. The Statement of Claim shows no reasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

4. The Claiment should, therefore, be ordered to file and serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for his claim as there is no pleaded basis for the claim itself. The Claimant should give full particulars of the charges he is seeking to recover, identifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge and why the claimant in each case he alleges it is a disproportionate penalty and thus unlawful...

 

...I presume this is a pretty standard thing with the Lloyds from what I have read elsewhere on the site.

 

I do not believe this is standard stuff at all.

 

If you have provided your spreadsheet detailing the charges and how you arrived at your claim figure, then some paperwork has gone astray at their end and this needs to be resolved. If you have not provided your spreadsheet, then they are highlighting that you need to do so. Also, carefully check the wording of your claim against examples on this site as they are claiming it does not cover what it needs to.

 

Post details here and ask for comments if necessary.

[GaryH]

A new underhand SC&M/Lloyds tactic it would seem. A couple like this have started to come up lately I think. This just re-iterates the importance of sending a schedule of charges to the court and the defendant when filing on moneyclaim. Perhaps this advice should be given in the templates library from now on, in with the guide notes for completing moneyclaim. I have a covering letter that I always send - if anyone's interested I'll post it.

 

(PS - Good to have you back Bean, hope you enjoyed your hols!)

[Tomk099]

Thanks Bean.

 

I sent a copy of my spreadsheet to the bank & also to the solicitors so I doubt they will have managed to lose both copies, or is this another stalling tactic.

Should I send a copy of the spreadsheet to the court with my AQ?

I was thinking of sending a copy in anyway but is it a good idea at this stage.

 

I'd like to have a look at your covering letter if possible gary.

 

Also does anyone know of a website where i can find the Civil Procedure Rules?

[thourb]

Civil Procedure Rules Homepage

[GaryH]

Letter to send with schedule when filing with moneyclaim:

 

 

---------------------

 

(YOUR ADDRESS)

The Court Manager

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

(DATE)

Dear Sir/Madam

(YOU) –v- (BANK)

Claim No: ********

I have today requested the issue of a County Court claim via the Moneyclaim online service, details as above.

Please find enclosed a schedule of the money taken from me by the defendant bank by way of charges, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached with the particulars of my claim.

Yours Faithfully

(YOU)

-----------------------

And I always send this to the bank at the same time:

 

----------------------

 

(YOU)

(BANK)

(DATE)

ACCOUNT NUMBER: **********

Dear Sir/Madam,

Further to my recent correspondence to your department dated **/**/** and **/**/**, in which I requested the repayment of unlawful charges which have been levied to my account, your lack of positive action to resolve this matter has regretfully left me with no alternative but to seek redress at the County Court.

I wish to inform you that I have today (**/**/**) issued a claim for the repayment of the unlawfully taken charges, plus statutory interest, plus costs. The claim will be served to you in due course.

Please find enclosed a schedule of the charges I am claiming, along with the interest accrued to date. A copy of this has also been sent to the court. Please note this schedule does not include court costs.

Yours Faithfully,

(YOU)

------------------------

[GaryH]

Feel free to use part/all of the above as you require.

 

I think we've got to try to pre-empt their underhand stalling tactics and limit their opportunity's for delaying wherever possible. 'Orrible buggers that SC&M lot.

[vckyjam]

I think a lot of people on here are getting worried about MCOL because it doesnt allow you to attach your bank charges. I e-mailed them with my bank charges im am yet to know if this is allowed. I dont want to send my charges to s and m because they are yet to enter a proper defence, and i dont really want to remind them- I want the big ass debt collecters to go get my money ( yes i know ...fat chance)

[GaryH]

Thats why its important to post a copy of the schedule to Northampton CC. I would assume an e-mail would be fine too.

[reload]

Great letters Gary, and I agree 100% with your and Bean's response to the letter Tomk099 received - it's not one of their standard letters. It certainly is an underhanded tactic, and I would assume that they are relying on the Court not having received a copy of the Schedule of Charges.

 

Lastly - they may also be applying this defense is the Particulars of Claim were filed incorrectly. Tomk099 - I hope you used something similar to the template Particulars available from this site?

[Tomk099]

I used the templates that were on the site, I followed the instructions laid out as how to go about filing the claim forms in so I cant have made a mistake.

My case has been passed onto my local court so I will be posting a copy when I send my AQ to them. I will also be sending the court copies of my statements with the charges highlighted & cross referenced to the schedule of charges.

[Bean]

It sounds like you have it covered.

 

It's completely up to you, but if you think it could help why not post or PM reload with your Particulars of Claim?

[reload]

After reading Tom's particulars of claim, I've referred his case to the mods and other site helpers.

 

Comments should be incoming on what to do next. I believe, however, that it will involve filing a £35 (unrecoverable) amendment with the County Court, and sending a copy to Lloyd's solicitors.