Claim from RBOS, every penny is charges

[DOBBYDOG]

Hi all, could do with some advice.

 

Received a claim form today....

Claimant..RBOS

Address for documents/payments...Bryan Carter

Particulars of claim.....for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

The defendant agreed to pay monthly installments under account No xxxxxx

but has failed to do so.

Signed Bryan Carter.

 

Now i know that every penny of this is actually charges they applied. In fact i think there is approx a further £1000 in charges.

I have never CCAd or started a claim for the charges back.

 

Any advice will be greatfully received. Many thanks.

[nicklea]

Hi

 

Some more information would be useful.

 

Was this a loan, credit card, overdraft etc?

 

Is the claim from the original creditor or a DCA?

 

Could you post up exactly what the poc says (leaving out any identifying details and exact amounts)

[42man]

My feeling is that you should counter claim !!

[DOBBYDOG]

Hi

 

Some more information would be useful.

 

Was this a loan, credit card, overdraft etc?

 

Is the claim from the original creditor or a DCA?

 

Could you post up exactly what the poc says (leaving out any identifying details and exact amounts)

 

 

Hi and thanks for getting back.

I am fairly sure this was from a current account with an overdraft. They refinanced the overdraft into a loan. There are many charges from before this and i was 2 payments off finishing this when got problems and many more charges were applied.

 

I think the claim id from the RBOS original creditors as that who it says the claimant is but is signed Bryan carter, their solicitors ? In fact ive had a letter from them today saying expect court papers.

 

The particulars of claim are......

for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

The defendant agreed to pay monthly installments under account No xxxxxx

but has failed to do so and the claimant claims the sum of £xxxx.xx.

The claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant tp s.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to 0.00.

Signed Bryan Carter.

 

I have all my bank statements already so can shortcut on that.

 

Many thanks for your help.

[nicklea]

Another few questions for you, I'm afraid, but it will all go towards building your defence.

 

I am fairly sure this was from a current account with an overdraft. They refinanced the overdraft into a loan.

 

When the overdraft was converted into a loan do you recall signing an agreement about this? If you didn't then they're buggered.

 

under account No xxxxxx

 

Is this the account number of the current account or the loan that you believe they replaced it with?

 

If it's the number of the current account, does your account show at the point when it was closed that the balance was set to zero as they transferred the balance to the loan?

 

If it's not the number of the current account then this doesn't matter.

 

What you need to do now is send the cpr 31.14 letter to the solicitors and we can do a defence for you.

[DOBBYDOG]

Hi and thanks for the reply. After much digging over alot of paper work this is how it is.......

 

Original overdraft was refinanced into a loan of £1200 + insurance of £164= £1364 over 2 years.

Managed to get the loan down to £355.85 after making payments every month. In the meantime i was given an overdraft of £300.

Got into trouble and missed a loan payment, charges were put onto the account which took it over overdraft limit. The next month same happened again and so on and so on...

They then put the overdraft up to cover all the charges and they also payed the outstanding loan amount out of the overdraft (which is showing satisfied on my credit file) A default is showing for current account.

The overdraft ended up being £1219 of which 300 was original overdraft, 355 for loan payment and £562 in charges. (it says on the claim form balance due under an agreement and nothing about overdraft)

 

The account number on the claim is not the same as any of my bank account numbers so assume this is Bryan Carters own.

 

Not really sure where to go with this, i think i should be admiting part of the amount ? The date on the claim form is 3rd June.

 

Thankyou in advance for any help.

Edited June 9, 2009 by DOBBYDOG

[nicklea]

Hi Dobbydog,

 

It looks like they're really buggered on this one.

 

I would suggest that you say you will be defending the full amount. You don't have to provide a defence now, you just need to reply saying that you will be defending the full amount.

 

I'll put something together for you at the weekend around the defence but if the court claim was dated 3rd June and you say you are defending the full amount then the defence wont have to be put in until the beginning of JUly

[DOBBYDOG]

Thanks Nicklea for all your advice. I think i will go with this then.

 

Do i need to acknowledge and say i'm defending now or do i wait till the last min?

Do i still need to send the cpr 31.14 letter to Bryan Carter ?

 

Many many thanks.

[42man]

As the particulars of the claim are vague it might be worth sending CPR18 to Carters....

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

Dear XXX

 

CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[nicklea]

Thanks Nicklea for all your advice. I think i will go with this then.

 

Do i need to acknowledge and say i'm defending now or do i wait till the last min?

 

It doesn't matter either way, but if you are even a day late in acknowledging the claim then the creditor will get a default judgement. It is best to do it in plenty of time I would suggest.

[DOBBYDOG]

Hi Nicklea, i need some further help..

 

acknowledged the claim in plenty of time

Sent above letter to (42man) to Bryan Carter. Had a letter back from them saying thankyou for communication, we have referred the matter to our client and will revert to you as soon as we are in receipt of instructions. In the mean time we confirm that we have placed the account on hold.

 

I need to do my defence, i think its too late ? claim dated 3rd june deemed served 8th june.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

[nicklea]

hi dobby,

 

I'll do something for you tomorrow that I suggest you get to the court on Monday.

 

To be honest it will be very short as there is not a lot you can say at this stage as their poc is such crap.

 

Don't worry though, the next stage will be getting the court to order them to disclose any documents to you and then we can do a proper defence.

 

But, in all likelihood, they'll give up before then.

[DOBBYDOG]

hi dobby,

 

I'll do something for you tomorrow that I suggest you get to the court on Monday.

 

To be honest it will be very short as there is not a lot you can say at this stage as their poc is such crap.

 

Don't worry though, the next stage will be getting the court to order them to disclose any documents to you and then we can do a proper defence.

 

But, in all likelihood, they'll give up before then.

 

Thankyou very much for taking the time to help me. I think i can submit the defence on line, is that correct ? If so it will be in time for Monday.

 

Thanks again, much appreciated.

[nicklea]

hi dobby,

 

I don't know what the size restriction is for doing it online. This might be too big to do it online.

 

1) It is not admitted that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

 

2) It is not admitted that I had an agreement with number xxxxxx with the Claimant. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement and is put to strict proof that a written agreement exists.

 

 

3) If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists then it is averred that the agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It is not admitted that any agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act.

 

 

4) The claim for interest under the County Courts Act is denied by reason of County Courts (Interest on Judgement Debts) Order 1991, Paragraph 2(3)(a)

 

 

5) Further to the claim, I wrote to the Claimant on xxxdate requesting further information vital to the case under CPR Part 18. The Claimant has failed to respond to this request. As I am a Litigant in Person, the Claimant's failure to respond puts me at a severe disadvantage and means that I cannot produce a fully particularised defence. I respectfully request that the court do order disclosure of the requested documents and I will then seek permission to submit an amended defence.

 

If it is too big then try leaving out para (4) above - it's not so important right now.

 

If it's still to big then you'll have to post it and put at the top:-

 

CLAIM NO: XXXXX

 

IN THE

XXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

BETWEEN

xxxxxx

CLAIMANT

And

dobbydog

DEFENDANT

 

 

and at the bottom you will need to put:-

 

!-- @page { size: 21cm 29.7cm; margin: 2cm } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } --> I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true

Signed:dobbydog

Defendant

Edited July 5, 2009 by nicklea
I should have said leave out para (4)!!!

[DOBBYDOG]

hi dobby,

 

I don't know what the size restriction is for doing it online. This might be too big to do it online.

 

1) It is not admitted that I am indebted to the Claimant as alleged or at all.

 

 

2) It is not admitted that I had an agreement with number xxxxxx with the Claimant. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement and is put to strict proof that a written agreement exists.

 

 

3) If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists then it is averred that the agreement would be a regulated agreement within the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It is not admitted that any agreement is enforceable within the terms of the Act.

 

 

4) The claim for interest under the County Courts Act is denied by reason of County Courts (Interest on Judgement Debts) Order 1991, Paragraph 2(3)(a)

 

 

5) Further to the claim, I wrote to the Claimant on xxxdate requesting further information vital to the case under CPR Part 18. The Claimant has failed to respond to this request. As I am a Litigant in Person, the Claimant's failure to respond puts me at a severe disadvantage and means that I cannot produce a fully particularised defence. I respectfully request that the court do order disclosure of the requested documents and I will then seek permission to submit an amended defence.

 

If it is too big then try leaving out para (4) above - it's not so important right now.

 

If it's still to big then you'll have to post it and put at the top:-

 

CLAIM NO: XXXXX

 

IN THE

XXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

BETWEEN

xxxxxx

CLAIMANT

And

dobbydog

DEFENDANT

 

 

and at the bottom you will need to put:-

 

!-- @page { size: 21cm 29.7cm; margin: 2cm } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } --> I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true

Signed:dobbydog

Defendant

Thankyou so very much Nicklea, you have been a great help. Ive managed to submit on line, they allow a max of 8000 characters.

 

Here's waiting and hoping. Not sure what happens next. I have been educating myself on here though and will continue to do so.

 

Many thanks again for the help !