Amex/Newman's (again) misplaced!

[Jargonbuster]

Hi,

I appear to have posted my sad and sorry tale here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/201942-amex-newmans-again.html

Apologies for messing up the thread system

 

If an administrator could move the thread into the Amex section, I would be most grateful.

 

jb

[the_shadow]

Hi,

I appear to have posted my sad and sorry tale here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/201942-amex-newmans-again.html

Apologies for messing up the thread system

 

If an administrator could move the thread into the Amex section, I would be most grateful.

 

jb

 

Hi Jargonbuster, I've asked the site team to move that one amex post from the thread above to this forum. Better if you keep the tsb & amex issues separate.

 

S.

[Jargonbuster]

Thanks Shadow,

I'll probably have an MBNA thread soon too - I could definitely do without all the card companies operating different policies, ringing all the time and generally being a ruddy nuisance but c'est la vie when you go broke I guess!

 

jb

[Jargonbuster]

If anyone is reading this thread, an update:

I sent a CCA (s.77-79) request to Newman's and got a copy of the Amex 60 second application form. I sent them another letter pointing out that this was unacceptable in terms of satisfying the CCA (s.77-79) request and that they could pass it, and the fee, to Amex should they be unable to fully satisfy the legal requirements of the CCA request .

The next communication I received was from AIC (ho hum). I guess that Amex have switched collection agencies - it would have been nice to have been told so, by Amex, but that's their prerogative.

I've now written to AIC, in response to their entreaty to enter poverty by settling in full IMMEDIATELY (they do like full caps, 15 point type don't they?), pointing out the deficiency of my dealings with Newman's. I also pointed out that my CCA (s.77-79) request was outstanding (and substantially out of time), asked them to supply the details and get the fee from Newman's (encashment of the fee without satisfying the legal requirements being, inherently a breach of the act) OR pass the bloody thing back to Amex for them to do so.

 

I've now got to find MBNA and Lloyds TSB threads to recount my joys with them .....

 

jb

[smouk]

Subbing with interest JB! Same DCA creeps as I've been playing with.

[Jargonbuster]

Hi Smouk, I'm glad not to be relating my experiences to empty ether

 

An update, sort of:

I've heard absolutely nothing more from AIC (ditto Lloyds TSB) and they've both gone way past the time limit for satisfying the CCA (s77-79) request - bear in mind that I instructed them to pass everything back to Amex should they find it too difficult or onerous -so, it looks like letter time again.

In the absence of advice to the contrary, I intend sending AIC, Amex and Lloyds TSB letters stating that they've broken their obligations under the CCA 1974 and, as such, can no longer expect to enjoy any benefit from the Act. The contracts, if there ever were any, have been irrevocably impaired and should be considered null and void as from 30 days from the default date for reply (they've both gone past that time limit) and that, subject to no written reasons to the contrary, I now consider the matter closed.

I'll cc everything (all written communication for each principal company) to the FSA, OFT and National Debtline.

 

Anyone got any thoughts before I apply recorded delivery stickers to envelopes?

 

jb

 

P.s. MBNA turned out to be incredibly helpful and accommodating once they'd received a letter pointing out deficiencies with their call centre (re the total inability to call them due to their lines being permanently engaged!) and had been served a CCA (s77-79) request to wake them up.

[smouk]

In the absence of advice to the contrary, I intend sending AIC, Amex and Lloyds TSB letters stating that they've broken their obligations under the CCA 1974 and, as such, can no longer expect to enjoy any benefit from the Act. The contracts, if there ever were any, have been irrevocably impaired and should be considered null and void as from 30 days from the default date for reply (they've both gone past that time limit) and that, subject to no written reasons to the contrary, I now consider the matter closed.

I'll cc everything (all written communication for each principal company) to the FSA, OFT and National Debtline.

 

Anyone got any thoughts before I apply recorded delivery stickers to envelopes?

"null and void"? Whilst I agree with your sentiment there is a part of me wonders if that phrase might come back to haunt you if they ever get you into a courtroom. That there is a contract is beyond dispute - you have a transaction history - but what the terms of that contract might be is the subject of dispute. I can see a judge saying that whilst they cannot enforce, by equal measure, you cannot void - and then stiffing you for costs.

[Jargonbuster]

Hi Smouk,

I hadn't thought about that and I must admit that I didn't phrase it so well. I'm not disputing that I owe a balance to Amex (and have never done so), I'm disputing the amount they claim is due since they unilaterally cancelled the credit card arrangement and account (incorrectly and in an unlawful manner).

I'll rethink the letter format and post here when I've done so. Probably something along the lines of the previous attempt but spelling out that the "null & void" I'm referring to is any changes to the contract or balances, at that 30 day cut-off point (for LTSB) or since their cancellation date (for Amex) and that their monthly share, pro rata to total debts, of my residual income is £xxx.xx which I'll pay by standing order (or via Pay Plan) from now on.

 

Sorry to ramble, I've got bad sciatica today and am full of morphine - it doesn't aid concentration let alone lucidity!

 

I think I'll lie down in a quiet room for a while now

 

jb

[Jargonbuster]

A mini (and belated) update:

 

Amex sent my account to another DCA, I wrote back to inform them that,

a) I am still awaiting a reply to my CCA (s77-79) request,

b) They may claim the £1.00 fee from Newman's and expedite the request,

c) I'm actually still paying my offered monthly amount to my Amex account & Amex have not made any request that I stop doing so (if they're even aware that I'm paying them anything at all!).

 

I've now heard nothing from them for two months.

 

Lloyds TSB - after I suggested, in June, that their "independent" collection agency, being a wholly owned subsidiary, may like to read every letter I'd sent and then talk to their legal representatives (as I had already done) and explore the ramifications of ignoring requests under the CCA disclosure provisions.

They must have done so as, this weekend, I received a letter agreeing to my offered payments.

 

MBNA - if the outstanding debt cannot be cleared in 125 monthly payments then they pass the debt to a DCA. They then offered a reduction of 40% of the total amount if I paid now. I'm about to query the ambiguity in their interpretation of "payment", as it seems to open the door to a monthly payment plan (funnily enough, almost exactly matching the offer I'd originally made).

 

Barclaycard (don't ask - they acquired the Morgan Stanley high end book. Immaculate timing there guys ):

They insist that, unless an offer is made via PayPlan (or something similar), they cannot and will not discuss a reduced payment plan. They keep giving me 30 day extensions. As I repeatedly point out to them, until I know what Amex or MBNA are going to do I am unwilling to set up a payment scheme, through a third party, that could be completely derailed by either of them deciding to take me to court.

 

I'll post again when (or if) I get anything more from Amex, MBNA, Barclaycard or their little helpers.

 

As an aside, Smouk, I thought about the letter approach again and decided against - thought you'd be pleased to know that

 

jb

[smouk]

I certainly take the line that Amex can do a pretty good job of winding their own noose. Like you I find myself having to bite my tongue (often!) and then gently remind myself that Amex can only benefit from a misplaced remark or ill-conceived comment. I would keep communication to the minimum necessary to remind them that they are at fault and are deliberately avoiding their moral and legal responsibilities.

[the_shadow]

JB,

 

I came to an agreement with Barclaysharks without involving the third parties... basically I wrote with my offer to CEO of Barclays, I had included an I&E tho. I agreed to repay more than 1% of the debt each month as that was the minimum they were prepared to take.

 

still being honored at the moment....

 

S.

[Jargonbuster]

Hi Shadow,

sorry for delay in replying.

 

Barclaycard seems to operate an ignore all communication unless it's via a third party (or an offer to pay now). I think that the industry, in general, operates an 125 month rule (if the debt can be cleared in 125 equal monthly payments, they'll accept it). I am unable to meet that precondition as I just don't have the income.

 

Updates to:

1). the Amex thread.

Got a stock letter from H&L Legal & Collections, working on behalf of AIC, threatening me with court proceedings within one week (from 15th Oct, 09), at Northampton County Court (only about 90 miles away!) unless I ring AIC or pay (amount unspecified but to include the amount outstanding, statutory interest (? 0.5%?) & additional costs - all unexplained but, the "Amount Outstanding" has various fees, penalties and other charges that are in dispute) and that there will be "no further warning".

Hmm, I think I'll ring H&L and point out that, a) they're muppets (maybe not ), b) there's still unresolved issues with Newmans, AIC & Amex, c) I'm disabled but will make an appearance at Northampton CC should they wish and be prepared to cover my travel costs.

Where's a UK version of the US RICO Act when you want it?

 

2). Lloyds TSB. Seem to have thrown in the towel and accepted my offer payments (probably couldn't find the original agreement as they've never sent it and have carefully avoided all mention of failure to comply with the CCA (s.77-79) request. Downside, it's via a paying in book with an account number that isn't recognised by other banks (7 digits rather than the standard 8) so I can't pay by standing order. I'll try and call them to find out why they seem to be trying it more difficult to pay them than before?

 

3). Barclaycard. A new letter (plus the 4 hourly telephone/mobile/data transfer sendings), in which they seem to have noticed that I'm not paying their monthly bill in full (they're adding roughly £200 p.m. in interest alone!). I'll send them a copy of the original letter from April this year plus a cover asking why they think that the guidelines for distressed borrowers don't apply to them.

 

4). Nothing yet from MBNA. Awaiting expiry of their "wait period" before they sell the debt on. Their offer of 40% off applied to a single, full and final payment which I cannot afford - rats!

 

That's it for now - due back to hospital to resume tests soon so I may become even more erratic in posting than heretofore

 

jb

[the_shadow]

Northampton County Court (only about 90 miles away!) unless I ring AIC or pay (amount unspecified but to include the amount outstanding, statutory interest (? 0.5%?) & additional costs - all unexplained but, the "Amount Outstanding" has various fees, penalties and other charges that are in dispute) and that there will be "no further warning".

 

Hi JB, good to see you back....

 

The Northampton court is a bulk clearing centre, claims go through it but they get transferred the the defendants local court as soon as they defend. Its just a way to issue claims online and process them quickly.

 

S.

[Jargonbuster]

Hi Shadow,

Thanks for the info and welcome back.

 

I've talked to H&L - they've given up and sent the file back to Amex. They suggest that I push everything through National Debtline and get them to send my original offer through one of their Debt Admin companies (PayPlan etc.) and seem pretty sure that Amex will accept. Barclaycard have said much the same so that's my next move. At least I now feel that I can progress down that route without someone scuppering the whole lot by taking me to court.

I have to say that I feel a sense of relief that, after 6 months of fighting, things look as if they can be resolved without litigation

 

I'll then have to keep visiting here to see if I can help anyone else - even if it's just to give a message of support (something that I appreciated greatly and cannot thank people enough for).

 

jb