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    • Dear All,   BN - Thank you for your comments.    My wife had prepared the relevant notice to the court and rather than spending time redacting I am sending it as PM to the contributors to this thread. It covers everything we have been discussing and is in line with  your comments and our discussions.   For the benefit of readers oif CAG I will redact and post it later as we have pressing family medical matters to attend to.    Warm regards BF  
    • Maybe have a third chamber, The Peoples' House 😃
    • Thanks for the images. It's shocking. This more than ever reinforces my view that you should take this to court. The number of people they must be fobbing off with this three months story is incredible – and they need pulling into line. If you simply complain to the CEO then they may sort out your problems – but the rest of it will go on as usual. They need something very serious here. In fact, I would think about suing them for £200 because I think that once they realise about the mistake they are making, they will be extremely anxious not to go to court. On the basis of this, I'm afraid I don't think I would even alert the CEO. I would send a letter of claim which will probably simply be seen by drones – and then issue the papers. I think you have an easy win on this case. Also, once they realise that they are dealing with a court case, they will look at the whole situation more carefully and they will probably sort out all of the problems at the same time. If they don't, then these two have laid down your marker and they will know that you're not mucking around and they will take you seriously.
    • These are the two incidents from Virgin Chat where their Live chat has informed me of the 'only 3 months' decision.... 15 April was the date they acknowledged receipt of my SAR. Apparently anything from before that date can't be included!
    • You could try both routes at the same time. Send your letter of claim by email to the CEO email address. Confirmed by letter. That way you have communicated with the CEO – but given a very definite deadline and a very definite promise as to what will happen if they don't comply. Then on day 15 sent the claim. Don't make a threat of legal action if you don't intend to carry it out. Don't bluff – but it is very easy to do
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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unenforeceable CCA but I'm with CCCS?


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Hi all, I'm a new user and I have tried to scour the posts to see answers to my specific questions but still unsure so any help would really be appreciated.

 

I have around £32k of debt originally built up on credit cards all prior to 2007. It is only since hearing adverts on the radio indicating that some agreements may be unenforecable that has prompted me to even look into this. I recently worked on bank charge complaints and became frustrated with companies charging extortionate rates to get the charges back that people could do themselves relatively easily.

 

My problem is that most if not all of my debts have now gone to a Debt Management Company. I am not overly harrassed by them and currently pay £50 a month between them all via CCCS.

 

Am I best just continuing paying this £50pm forever or will I at some point in the future be pressured into increasing these payments? (I have got a better paid job than when I first gave my budget but haven't disclosed this - Is this also the wrong thing to do and will this backfire on me?)

 

Should I look to contact my original credit card companies and ask them for the original CCA? or do I need to contact the Debt company now? Should I infact not even rock the boat and not look into this anymore? I'd be over the moon if I could avoid paying it back, but worry about the implications of this as well.

 

From reading the threads I am concerned a little about stirring up a hornets nest. My main concern is my debtors securing my property against the debt should it ever be sold.

 

I would be grateful for any advice whatsoever as I am a complete novice and don't want to get in too deep.

 

Dave :eek::confused:

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I was with CCCS until November 2007. In my view they are alright to take the heat off when you first hit the skids but they are not a long term solution. In addition their admin is a shambles. If a creditor does start to pursue you for more or tries to take action against you, CCCS won't help you. They are financed by the very creditors who are pursuing you and all they are interested in is collectiong your money. I had £48000 of debt spread over 12 creditors. Some agreements were non-existent and the rest were uneforceable in law. They have all be seen off and I am down to getting the last 3 defaults removed from my credit reference reports. It is a thought to take the plunge and it involves quite a bit of admin but for me it has been more than worth it. I haven't paid a penny to any creditors in all that time.

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I'm with Pinky i would start picking them off one by one.

 

ida x

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I am with CCCS at the moment. I had about £80k with them. I have started picking them of and stopped paying all the disputed ones. I currently have about £15k left with cccs but I am going to cut ties with them. I have become wary of them. One of the frightening things they told me was that when I got a letter from cabot stating they had bought two alledged debts... Just pay them... they are a big company that are reputable!!

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If a creditor does start to pursue you for more or tries to take action against you, CCCS won't help you. They are financed by the very creditors who are pursuing you and all they are interested in is collectiong your money.

 

:eek:

Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum

 

The great thing is to know when to speak and when to keep quiet.

 

(Seneca the Younger (attributed), Proverbs, 74)

 

 

Speech is given to many; intelligence to few - but if its well said, I said it!

:p

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I too was with CCCS for about 18 months, but when my mortgage went up and I had to decrease my payments to the creditors they were slightly negative with me and advised me to try and remortgage with their linked company "Charcoal". Needless to say there was no way I was turning unsecured debt into secured on my home.

 

I terminated my plan at the beginning of this year and now go it alone, yes initially you will be bombarded with calls and letters again, but I have now CCA'd all of them and only a couple are now being paid a small amount.

 

I couldn't ave done it without this brill site though, be positive and keep your paperwork all in order and you will be fine!!!!

 

Good luck

 

S.B.

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Thank you for all this useful info. Still a few questions if thats ok..

 

Can I continue paying £50 via CCCS and look to obtain my CCA's to see if they are unenforceable?

 

If yes, should I go to the original Card companies or the companies who now own the debt?

 

Am I likely to find it more difficult to make they unenforceable now they are with debt management companies or is this irrelevant?

 

Given that people have been claiming againist unenforceable agreements for a number of years, is it harder to prove this now? (ie loop holes/laws credit card companies have now introduced to make them enforceable?)

 

Sorry these are probably basic questions, but I haven't a clue about a lot of this and I am considering challenging them.

 

For a novice like me, are there any starter letter templates I can use to get the ball rolling?

 

Thanks again for your help, I will need you all at some point agian in the near future...so don't go too far! :smile:

 

BTW - I am fairly ok with navigating sites & the tinternet in general, but I do find it difficult adding posts/finding posts/threads etc on here. The only way I can find the answers to my post is to do a search on my username :eek: Does anyone else find this?? Probably me just being a dope though.

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Thank you for all this useful info. Still a few questions if thats ok..

 

Can I continue paying £50 via CCCS and look to obtain my CCA's to see if they are unenforceable? yes

 

If yes, should I go to the original Card companies or the companies who now own the debt? whoever is persuing you for the debt

 

Am I likely to find it more difficult to make they unenforceable now they are with debt management companies or is this irrelevant? No

 

Given that people have been claiming againist unenforceable agreements for a number of years, is it harder to prove this now? (ie loop holes/laws credit card companies have now introduced to make them enforceable?) no

 

Sorry these are probably basic questions, but I haven't a clue about a lot of this and I am considering challenging them.

 

For a novice like me, are there any starter letter templates I can use to get the ball rolling?

 

Thanks again for your help, I will need you all at some point agian in the near future...so don't go too far! :smile:

 

BTW - I am fairly ok with navigating sites & the tinternet in general, but I do find it difficult adding posts/finding posts/threads etc on here. The only way I can find the answers to my post is to do a search on my username :eek: Does anyone else find this?? Probably me just being a dope though.

 

 

template for cc:

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

just print you name, include a £1 po and send recorded delivery

 

ida x

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Many Thanks Ida, I'm going to get these sent off soon.

 

A couple more questions for anyone... (sorry)

 

If the agreements are unenforceable, what happens next? Do I just stop paying the debt's?

 

If I do just stop paying them, will I still be pursued regularly with threats to pay the outstanding debt(s) or do the debt management companies recognise that they are unenforceable and therefore close the matter?(wishful thinking)

 

How will I know that they are 100% unenforceable? I would hate to do all this, stop paying them and then it comes back to bite me on the proverbial and put me in a worse position.

 

I understand that the debt will not be written off, just unenforceable. What exactly does this mean/do to my credit rating?

 

I don't envisage getting credit anytime soon, but can the debt ever be removed from my credit reports?

 

Thanks again... dave

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Many Thanks Ida, I'm going to get these sent off soon.

 

A couple more questions for anyone... (sorry)

 

If the agreements are unenforceable, what happens next? Do I just stop paying the debt's?

 

you have options, you are within your rights to withold any payments until they produce a valid cca or you can use this making a reduced full and final offer to get rid if them

 

If I do just stop paying them, will I still be pursued regularly with threats to pay the outstanding debt(s) or do the debt management companies recognise that they are unenforceable and therefore close the matter?(wishful thinking)

 

the dmps will still advise you to pay them. if you did stop paying they are not meant to demand any payment and you can make complaints to tTS and OFT

 

How will I know that they are 100% unenforceable? I would hate to do all this, stop paying them and then it comes back to bite me on the proverbial and put me in a worse position.

 

when you receive them post them up here for folks to have a nosey at them

 

I understand that the debt will not be written off, just unenforceable. What exactly does this mean/do to my credit rating?

 

they will stay there for 6 years after any default

 

I don't envisage getting credit anytime soon, but can the debt ever be removed from my credit reports?

 

as above

 

Thanks again... dave

 

Ida x

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BTW - I am fairly ok with navigating sites & the tinternet in general, but I do find it difficult adding posts/finding posts/threads etc on here. The only way I can find the answers to my post is to do a search on my username :eek: Does anyone else find this?? Probably me just being a dope though.

 

If you go to the top of each of your threads, and click 'thread tools' and then select 'subscribe' then you'll be taken to a new page to confirm that you want to subscribe to that thread. Then you can access all of your subscribed threads by going to 'quick links' then selecting 'subscribtions'.

If I have been helpful in any way, please tip my scales :lol:

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'm back again... The 12+2 days are up after having sent the DMA's my CCA request along with £1 postal orders on 10/06/09.

 

I have had a response from APEX dated 11/06/09 who have advised that my ac has been referred to Goldfish to provide them with a copy of the signed CCA. They will endeavour to forward this on as soon as they receive it.

 

Capital One have sent me a letter dated 15/06/09, in summary it says please find enclosed a copy of my credit agreement as requested. In accordance with section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 & the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, this is your original agreement, and if any terms have been variedthen the copy agreement will include the updated terms. In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been ommitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit Regulations 1983.

Under section 78 we are not required to provide a copy of the default notice and statement of default. However can confirm that a statement of default was issued on 7th Dec 2008. Please contact me again if any more enquiries.

 

* Couple of things - I have not had a response from 2 other companies yet that I sent my request to.

 

Also I don't have a scanner - is there any other way I can load the actual docs they send me without the need to type things out word for word?

 

As ever, any help is greatly appreciated as I don't know what to do next with regard to any of the above.

 

Thanks - Dave

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Excellent advice offered here, maybe if I give you a real example it will inspire you.

 

50k worth of debt

 

With CCCS paying £100 during two years 3 banks sent DN notices, WHILST IN AN AGREEMENT!!!!, this was the straw.

 

CCA's sent to all

 

All debts were pre 2004, not one single enforceable agreement amongst them.

 

To date all have been passed from DCA to DCA each time they get told to get stretched, BY LETTER, CL Finance are getting warmed up for a Northampton claim but the fact they have a turkey a defense is prepared and the support on here is amazing, none of this is a worry.

 

My advice is simple.

 

CCCS are great BUT if you trace it back it's funded by the banks. They will not let you stop paying or respond very favourable to avoiding debt.

 

Best thing to do is CCA all creditors get the agreement checked out on here. Anything, unenforceable stop paying and you decide what you want to do.

 

Come out of CCCS agreement.

 

If by miracle anything is enforceable pay the OC direct and play hardball with payments. Keep on the ball with any letters received and at the time of writing your home is completely safe, if you follow advice on here.

 

DCA can not get there grumby hands on your home if the debt is unenforceable and you defend if it comes to it, most time it does not.

We live in an unmoderated country why should the net be any different?

Bring back free speech we miss it!

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