Debt over 6 years old, started to make repayments. Do I have to continue?

[Chopper75]

Dear all,

 

I hope you guys will be able to give me some advice, I will keep this as brief as possible. Last year I received a letter from MacKenzie Hall stating that I owed a sum from an old credit card. In short I have started to make repayments to them. I have now discovered that the debt was well over 6 years old. What I would like to know is:

1) Were they entitled to reclaim the money even though they knew the debt was over 6 years old & therefore that they were barred by statute from claiming it?

2) Were they in breach of OFT rules by in trying to make me repay in the first place?

3) Do I have to continue to make my repayments? Could I even reclaim the money I have already paid them!?

 

Sorry this is rather long but I would be most grateful for all your help.

 

Many thanks

Chopper75

[postggj]

First Thing Is If Muck Hall Have It, Its Statute Barred

 

The Debt Still Exsists But The Moment You Tell Them Its Statute Barred, They Can Bog Off And Have To Comply So They Have Not Committed Any Offence Until Informed Stat Barred

 

Stop All Payments

Cancel Dd And Any Card Numbers Before You Tell Them Or Your Account Will Be Hit

 

A Debt Is Statute Barred If No Acknowledgement In Writing Or Payment In The Last Six Years

 

Send The Stat Barred Template

 

 

ITS DOWN TO THEM TO PROVE ITS NOT STAT BARRED, NOT YOU

[postggj]

SEND RECORDED DELIEVERY

 

 

1 High Street,

Newtown,

Kent

R21 4RH

 

June 28, 2006

 

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Acc/Ref No 4563210025897412

 

You have contacted us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by ourselves.

 

We would point out that under the Limitation Act 1980 Section 5 “an action founded on simple contract shall not be brought after the expiration of six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.”

 

We would also point out that the OFT say under their Debt Collection Guidance on statute barred debt that “it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the relevant limitation period”.

 

The last payment of this alleged debt was made over six years ago and no further acknowledgement or payment has been made since that time. Unless you can provide evidence of payment or written contact from us in the relevant period under Section 5 of the Limitation Act, we suggest that you are no longer able to take any court action against us to recover the alleged amount claimed.

 

The OFT Debt Collection Guidance states further that “continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970”.

 

We await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed and that no further contact will be made concerning the above account after that last letter.

 

We look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[susiecute]

Hi, I hope that someone can help me.

I have debts from loans etc. taken out in 2001,2002. Since that time I became ill and was unable to work. I wondered how I could find out if I have made any payments since 2003/2004.

I don't think I have, but as I suffered from Depression and was quite poorly, I really can't remember.

I had blanked out the debt for a long time, and in fact moved last year. I have now started to get letters from debt companies but to be honest, I am scared to reply to them. I do not wish to go back to the state I was in when I became ill.

Sorry if this is a long post, but I am beginning to get myself in a state again and do not know what to do.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

[postggj]

No Panic Susie

 

As The Dca Threat Monkies Are All Ready Contacting You Try Doing This

 

Log Onto Experian And Take There Free Thirty Day Trial.

Just Cancel Before The Thirty Days

 

You Will Find Out All About Defaults And Payment History That Way

 

Need Any Help , Just Shout

[postggj]

All Correspondents To A Dca In Writing Only And Never, Never Acknowledge The Debt

[susiecute]

Thanks everyone.

I will do as you have suggested postggj, and look at my Experian file.

Will give you a shout back when I have the information as I am sure I will need continued advice.

Thank god there is someone who is willing to help rather than condemn.

Thanks. x

[postggj]

Thanks everyone.

I will do as you have suggested postggj, and look at my Experian file.

Will give you a shout back when I have the information as I am sure I will need continued advice.

Thank god there is someone who is willing to help rather than condemn.

Thanks. x

 

 

WE HAVE ALL BEEN IN YOUR SITUATION AND NEVER JUDGE

[Bazooka Boo]

1) Were they entitled to reclaim the money even though they knew the debt was over 6 years old & therefore that they were barred by statute from claiming it?

 

Quite Simply NO!

 

2) Were they in breach of OFT rules by in trying to make me repay in the first place?

Hmm, IMHO a debt that is SB is still a debt, asking for payment isn't in breach of OFT rules, harassing a debtor for payment when a debt is SB is!

 

As for asking for the money already paid to them to be returned, I doubt it would be successful as there is a debt.

 

3) Do I have to continue to make my repayments? Could I even reclaim the money I have already paid them!?

As has already been said, stop all payments to them, keep a close eye on your bank account for any 'DCA activity'.

Send them the SB letter, then if they persist with seeking payment from you, that is the time then to complain to the relevant authorities.

 

However, you might like to keep this link for future reference: How to Complain

 

 

[Chopper75]

Many thanks for your help guys. Just wish I found this forum last year!

One last thing. Mac Hall claim that by starting payments this means that I acknowledged the debt & therefore the whole 6 year old debt being barred by statute thing does not count! I assume they are telling porkies?

 

thanks again

Chopper75

[postggj]

Many thanks for your help guys. Just wish I found this forum last year!

One last thing. Mac Hall claim that by starting payments this means that I acknowledged the debt & therefore the whole 6 year old debt being barred by statute thing does not count! I assume they are telling porkies?

 

thanks again

Chopper75

 

 

PURE CRAP

 

ONCE STATUTE BARRED

ALLWAYS STATUTE BARRED

 

PAYMENTS AFTER SIX YEARS MAKES NO DIFFERENCE

 

 

YOU EXPECT THIS FROM MUCK HALL

[Bazooka Boo]

PURE CRAP

ONCE STATUTE BARRED

ALLWAYS STATUTE BARRED

PAYMENTS AFTER SIX YEARS MAKES NO DIFFERENCE

YOU EXPECT THIS FROM MUCK HALL

 

I agree, it is total nonsense, and indicative of such a laughable outfit.

 

Once a debt becomes statute barred, ie. goes past the 6 year limitation period, 5 years in Scotland. then 'nothing' either the debtor or DCA/Creditor does can re-start the clock.

If you were to admit, 'in writing' or make a 'payment' within the 6 year limitation period, then yes, the clock would start again from that date.

Making a payment after the debt has become SB or even acknowledging that you do owe the debt, does not nor will it ever re-start the clock.

 

Tell them to go play on the motorway. Imbeciles..

[Chopper75]

Out of interest is anyone aware of any cases where money paid to a collection agency has been successfully reimbursed? Afterall they would be aware that their claim was SB so thay acted "illegally"(?)

[Bazooka Boo]

I would say stop making payments but since you started to make them after the statute ran out does this not make the bill current all over again?

 

Once a debt becomes Statute barred, it cannot run out, nothing can ever start the SB clock, depending on the type of debt.

 

Out of interest is anyone aware of any cases where money paid to a collection agency has been successfully reimbursed? After all they would be aware that their claim was SB so they acted "illegally"(?)

I have not heard of any cases where this has been the case.

I think you may be getting slightly confused, it is not 'illegal' for a DCA to approach a debtor for payment when the debt is SB. It 'is' against the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines to continue to harass the alleged debtor for payment when the debt is SB.

Hoever each and every time the debt is sold on to another unfortunate DCA, they can and will approach you for payment.

 

Statute barred debt

2.13 This guidance applies to the pursuit of debt regardless of its age. We will be

carrying out further work on this aspect of debt recovery including analysis of

relevant legislation and practice throughout the UK.

2.14 In the past we have dealt with a number of statute barred debt cases governed by

the Limitation Act 1980, which applies to England and Wales. Based on that

experience our position with regard to England and Wales remains:

a. we accept legally the debt exists

b. it is the methods by which the debt is collected that can be

unfair as follows:

• it is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from

the creditor during the relevant limitation period

• if a creditor has been in regular contact with a debtor before the debt

is statute barred, then we do not consider it unfair to continue to

attempt to recover the debt

• it is unfair to mislead debtors as to their rights and obligations, for

example, falsely stating or implying that the debt is still legally

recoverable and relying on consumers not knowing the relevant legal

provisions, and

• continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they

will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to

harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of

Justice Act 1970.

 

Factually the DCA is correct:( in that a debt does indeed exist, asking for payment does not constitute illegal action on their part, they just hope that we don't know our rights and begin paying!

I would put it down to experience, at least you have the knowledge that they can't get any more money out of you:D

Edited June 1, 2009 by Bazooka Boo
Still getting to grips with the English Language!

[postggj]

I would say stop making payments but since you started to make them after the statute ran out does this not make the bill current all over again?

 

NOPE

 

THE DEBTS HISTORY ONCE YOU INFORM THEM STATUTE BARRED AND THEY CANT TRASH YOUR CREDIT FILE EITHER

[postggj]

Out of interest is anyone aware of any cases where money paid to a collection agency has been successfully reimbursed? Afterall they would be aware that their claim was SB so thay acted "illegally"(?)

 

 

THE MONEY PAID WOULD BE CLASSED AS A GIFT AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE DEBT EXSISTS, ITS JUST THAT A DCA CAN DO SFA

 

 

FORGET ABOUT RECLAIMING PAYMENTS

[make them aktiv runners]

I have not heard of any cases where this has been the case.

I think you may be getting slightly confused, it is not 'illegal' for a DCA to approach a debtor for payment when the debt is SB. It 'is' against the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines to continue to harass the alleged debtor for payment when the debt is SB.

Hoever each and every time the debt is sold on to another unfortunate DCA, they can and will approach you for payment.

 

I understand your first point, I can see it is not that clear to others. To add a little, once you inform a DCA a debt is statute-barred the DCA cannot then press for payment as they are breaching OFT guidelines if they do. Prior to any letter from yourself, they can "politely" ask for payment.

 

Your last point I disagree with. Once a SB letter has been sent, the DCA cannot sell it on, neither can the original creditor as they are breaching the guidelines.

[42man]

Some great advice above.....write to Mack Hall, state that the debt is statute barred (if there is a 6 year gap in the life of the debt where you have not made a payment or acknowledged - 5 in Scotland then even making recent payments will not unbar it) (there is a different letter for use in Scotland) - If they continue to hassle you report them to Trading Standards and the Office Of Fair Trading, they should inform you that they will not be pursuing this any more.....or you may never hear from them again....please keep us posted...

[Bazooka Boo]

Your last point I disagree with. Once a SB letter has been sent, the DCA cannot sell it on, neither can the original creditor as they are breaching the guidelines.

 

I feel we may have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

As to debt sales creditors or a debts owner are at liberty to sell a debt at any time at their discretion without recourse or permission / consultation with any debtor. So if this has in fact occurred all that’s required is you be formally advised this has occurred in writing either by the debts seller or the new owner but its usually contained in the first debt collection communication the new owner sends. So its almost certain that any new correspondence is completely legal and that they have the right to pursue the debt which you are just as liable for now as you were when you first took it on statute barred or not and they can do everything to recover it from you save taking court action as long as they do so in a such a way which can not be misconstrued as deliberate harassment.

 

At the end of the day you need to remember you still owe these debts. Who is actually chasing them is likely to change time and time again over the coming years and non can take court action. You need to consider how much time and effort you are prepared to waste repeating the process over and over again. I have one client still being chased actively 17 years later and one 25 years later.

 

This is in response to an email I sent to the National Debtline, asking about SB debts amongst various other queries, the better informed we consumers are then the better armed we can be.

[make them aktiv runners]

BB I can see where you are coming from.

 

To take the most appropriate element of your quote from National Debtline "as they do so in a such a way which can not be misconstrued as deliberate harassment" I ask you to consider the following guideline from the OFT too "continuing to press for payment after a debtor has stated that they will not be paying a debt because it is statute barred could amount to harassment contrary to section 40 (1) of the Administration of Justice Act 1970." If you inform them it is statute barred they breach OFT guidelines by asking for payment again, it therefore stands to reason that they must inform any new buyer of your letter, as they are deliberately creating harrassment by not divulging that information. NB, it is different if the DCA changes and you have not informed them it is SB.

 

National Debtline give general information, the OFT regulates DCA land. Anyone receiving requests from a new DCA after having already informing a previous DCA of SB status should complain to OFT immediately. OFT can take action via the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations and can use their guidelines to set conditions for retention of CCA licenses.

[Bazooka Boo]

If you inform them it is statute barred they breach OFT guidelines by asking for payment again, it therefore stands to reason that they must inform any new buyer of your letter, as they are deliberately creating harrassment by not divulging that information. NB, it is different if the DCA changes and you have not informed them it is SB.

 

No I quite agree with you on that front, but it would not surprise me in the slightest that when DCA's pass the debts amongst themselves, they omit various information, after all if they pursue debts without valid CCA's then chasing a debt that is SB is the last of there worries.

 

But I do fully concur that they should be reported, maybe then the OFT will do something about the unscrupulous activities of the DCA's!

[babybear39]

Muck Hall are under OFT scrutiny for exactly this kind of thing. Report them straight away!!!