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Why let your bank keep your money? Calculating your charges claim

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The OFT has already pronounced on a "fair rate" of £12.
Sorry, but no they haven't, and I am a bit surprised you should say that, maybe you should re-read the OFT statement of april 06? ;-) In fact, the OFT very clearly stated that their "threshold intervention" of £12 did NOT mean that a charge of £12 was fair and they very specifically said that ONLY a court could decided what constituted a fair charge, therefore:

The only thing is that it may not be possible to claim back CC charges if they were actually levied at the OFT capped rate of £12.

 

I think that you will only be able to recover those charges which were lvied at a higher rate.

is factually very incorrect and as far as I can see, as long as people know to claim it all back, the CC pay it all back. Oh sure, they TRY to say that they don't have to repay it all but if people stand firm, they do get the totality of it back. Speaking for myself, I have had both higher and £12 charges back from Barclaycard and Capital1 (+ interest levied on those charges + s.69, of course), and I am not aware of CC companies going to court to argue the toss (apart from Citi maybe, but let's face it, they always were awkward beggars :razz:).

 

 

The courts have been happy to stay CC charges claims as well.

To be fair, generally mainly if the claim is placed through MCOL, then again, I don't doubt some judges can't see the difference or can't be bothered to.

 

So my summary would be at odds to yours and I'd encourage people to keep on claiming the totality of their CC charges, whether be the £12 or more and stand firm and when the CC companies try to negotiate for the difference, confront them with the April '06 OFT statement as quoted above. And don't forget to add the interest on those charges, of course. :-D

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Sorry, but no they haven't, and I am a bit surprised you should say that, maybe you should re-read the OFT statement of april 06? ;-) In fact, the OFT very clearly stated that their "threshold intervention" of £12 did NOT mean that a charge of £12 was fair and they very specifically said that ONLY a court could decided what constituted a fair charge, therefore:

is factually very incorrect and as far as I can see, as long as people know to claim it all back, the CC pay it all back. Oh sure, they TRY to say that they don't have to repay it all but if people stand firm, they do get the totality of it back. Speaking for myself, I have had both higher and £12 charges back from Barclaycard and Capital1 (+ interest levied on those charges + s.69, of course), and I am not aware of CC companies going to court to argue the toss (apart from Citi maybe, but let's face it, they always were awkward beggars :razz:).

 

 

To be fair, generally mainly if the claim is placed through MCOL, then again, I don't doubt some judges can't see the difference or can't be bothered to.

 

So my summary would be at odds to yours and I'd encourage people to keep on claiming the totality of their CC charges, whether be the £12 or more and stand firm and when the CC companies try to negotiate for the difference, confront them with the April '06 OFT statement as quoted above. And don't forget to add the interest on those charges, of course. :-D

 

You are quite right. My mistake. The OFT capped rate was the threshold rate.

 

However I fully expect that after the Test case, that the banks will argue - and that the courts will accept that the OFT threshold should also be treated as the fair rate.

 

We have yet to see what the OFT fair rate for bank charges will be. If it happens to be £12 then I expect that the CC cap will become the defacto fair rate.

 

I'm all for everyone claiming everything and pushing as far as possible - hence the existence of this site.

 

However, up to the beginning of the test case there was an exquisite madness which took the banks and the courts by suprise. No one tried to control it bevause no one expected that it would get out of hand in the way that it did.

 

Now that some calm has been imposed on the situation, I am sure that they won't want it to getout of hand again.

 

In particular, the courts have said that UTCCR applies and that penalties do not.

 

This gives a structure which was never apparent before. I don't expect that the OFT or the banks or the courts will want to let go of this.

 

I'm not aware that a fair rate under the UTCCR can't be assesed by the courts. It is not the OFT which has exclusive authority to do this. In fact the OFT fair rate is really just a recomendation - but which you can be certainl will be accepted by the courts unless thee is some real evidence to the contrary.

 

If the OFt bank charges rate is set at less than £12 then the CC companies will keep very quiet.

If the OFT chargs rate is set higher than £12 then there will be bleating by the CC companies for the OFt to re-assess the rate.

 

Anyone who has been charged more than £12 CC charges should go and claim back everything - including related interest.

However, I don't expect that charges which have been levied at the £12 rate will be recoverable anymore.

 

However, do go ahead and try. I think that £12 is still very excessive and I owuld be very pleased if people succeeeded in getting this money back too

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Thankyou for that information Bank Fodder. I have put a claim in for £5k for oh bank account. I have had the usual back saying we are not doing anything until the HOL ruling and please do not sue me. I was going to leave it but I think the 8% interest does add up and will start an action.

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Thankyou for that information Bank Fodder. I have put a claim in for £5k for oh bank account. I have had the usual back saying we are not doing anything until the HOL ruling and please do not sue me. I was going to leave it but I think the 8% interest does add up and will start an action.

BankFodder is not just talking about 8% but the interest on the charges themselves over the period of time. It is not a new idea, it's something that has been advocated all the time here and on other forums, ie you claim charges plus interest on them plus 8% until it is paid back. If it's with the bank it is already earning 8% but if you didn't add the interest that was charged on the charges themselves then that is the whole point of the thread which is to get that back as well, even though I have never understood working out the interest(never have done despite a tutorial on MSN yesterday from someone ;) I do need that bit explaining as though I was a two year old, however.).


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I'm a little iffy with bank charges, so can anyone tell me if they relate to charges you get for a)going overdrawn and b)on a business account please?

 

I was recently charged the best part of £70 over 2 months by Abbey business (thought my balance was at £0 so didn't check statements). I'm obviously rather miffed by this, but I don't know if it being a business account precludes doing anything about it?

 

Thanks - and sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.


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I'm a little iffy with bank charges, so can anyone tell me if they relate to charges you get for a)going overdrawn and b)on a business account please?

 

I was recently charged the best part of £70 over 2 months by Abbey business (thought my balance was at £0 so didn't check statements). I'm obviously rather miffed by this, but I don't know if it being a business account precludes doing anything about it?

 

Thanks - and sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.

 

Lex,

 

Yes, the bank charges issue is about charges for going overdrawn or having payments returned.

See the link to the business claims forum in my signature (in my earlier post) for information regards business accounts.

In short, Business account holders are being left somewhat in the cold regards the whole OFT business.

This is because Business accounts are NOT covered by The UTCCR, and so up until the OFT case have had to rely upon claiming charges being penalties under common law.

Unfortunately, the concept of penalties under common law has now been pretty much ruled out by the OFT case, and as they are not covered by or have any statutory protection under the UTCCR or other, are seemingly now left without a cause of action.

Some members of CAG are working behind the scenes at trying to find new ways to contend these charges for business claimants, so keep an eye on the business forums for updates and news.

 

All the best

Pm


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Thanks photoman:)


Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Draft Spreadsheet with info boxes if anyone would like to take a look:

Draft Int Calc2.xls

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All,

 

Thanks for the information, I hadn't realised the implications of waiting for the HOL decision.

 

Immediately I read this thread, I posted off an SAR to my bank (Halifax). I have now had the application returned to me twice for trivial errors in my application. Today I will try a third time after receiving further clarification from their customer confusion department.

 

Is anyone else having similar problems. Is it possible that the banks have wised up to the implications laid out in this thread and are now employing "mischief" to let the clock run down on the test case, and, in so doing, avoid the statutory interest portion of any new claim?

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I didnt put in a subject access request because I knew it would delay it. I have been through all the on line charge notifications for the last 2 years, ( there was no problem before that) and submitted it.

 

Thanks for you input your bank.

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I didnt put in a subject access request because I knew it would delay it. I have been through all the on line charge notifications for the last 2 years, ( there was no problem before that) and submitted it.

 

Thanks for you input your bank.

 

My circumstances are different, unfortunately. I've got 2 years worth from the online statements but most of my charges are from 2002 - 2005 range. I am now regretting not keeping my statements but hey ho.

 

Anyone know if there is a likely cut off date? I know the HOL are due to commence consideration on 21st June. Will this route close once the HOL ruling is published? If I read this thread right, it will but is my interpretation correct?

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I wouldnt have thought there is a cut off date. If the HOL have a funny turn and overturn the appeal judgement, I am still taking it legal...I will take mine to the House Of Lords!

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Draft Spreadsheet with info boxes if anyone would like to take a look:

 

I will have a play tonight and reply.

 

Unfortunately I'm having difficulty downloading it at present but I think this is my problem rather than yours.

 

Will I be able to open this in Excel? I don't have open Office, although I know I can download it.

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I will have a play tonight and reply.

 

Unfortunately I'm having difficulty downloading it at present but I think this is my problem rather than yours.

 

Will I be able to open this in Excel? I don't have open Office, although I know I can download it.

 

Opens in Excel fine although I've not had time to play with it either :-D

 

S.


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Opens in Excel fine although I've not had time to play with it either :-D

 

S.

 

Cheers Shadow

 

Looking forward to an evening of bank charges. I've gotta do it soon as expect to be going abroad soon.

 

Yeeesh :mad:

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I'm not sure that there will be a cut-off date but I can imagie that if a repayment scheme is put in place - then there is likley to be some kind mechanism to encourage people to use the repayment scheme.

 

In that case you would have to look for a good reason to being a court action.

This could be that your figures are different to the bank's ones or that in some other way the bank is trying to limit your claim and you need the question resolved by the bank.

One way of encouraging people to go directly to the bank for refunds wuld be to offer very quick settlements.

So for instance, the banks might promise repayment within, say, 4 weeks.

 

this would be at least 2 or 3 months ealrier than using the court process.

However, the downsid might be that there is no provision for an equivalent of the 8% statutory interest, the bank might only offere the difference betwenn the charge and the OFT fair charge, the bank migh only offer repayments back to 2001 (6 yrs from test case) etc.

 

It is all very difficult to predict. Also, although the HoL is very likly to come down on the side of the OFT, they may frame their judgment in such a way which might limit the way in which repayments are made.

 

The Lords are no slouches and they could easily predict certain repercussions to a successful OFT judgment which the banks themselves have not yet appreciated. there is no doubt in my mind that if there is a simple decision in favour of the OFT then things are likely to become more dramatically serious for the banks than anyone could yet possibly imagine.

Say, n'more.


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Hmm, Interesting.

 

Going back a couple of posts, the interest implications are a double whammy on interest bearing current accounts.

 

Clearly, there would be a reduction, and eventual elimination of the detrimental interest changes. But, where interest is paid on the positive balance, this would have been underpaid once the effects of the charges are removed.

 

We would then need a second level of the calcs to repay positive balance interest on the account once charges and related OD interst is removed.

 

This spreadsheet is starting to look ever so complicated.

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Positive balance interest suggests contractual interest.

 

I tried to get this idea going a couple of years ago but I don't believe that it is a runner at the moment.

I know that some of the site team disagree and think that there is now a basis for contractual interest - or equivalent.

 

For the moment I would suggest that people merely produce claims for actual charges and interest taken from them. This will be fine for the moment.

These claims will go on hold and they can always be amended when the HoL rules and the stays are lifted.

 

It will then become clear exactly what is claimable and what is not.


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I dont agree with the idea of CI myself, to me it appears greedy.

But getting back what is mine, every little penny of it, now that I go with.

If the only objection was greed, I think that e would all get trampled in the rush - but I owuld certainly be the first in the queue.

I think that there are legal objections


 

 

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.... I would just like to take this opportunity to say hello to all our "guests" on this thread.

 

Hello to the the respective legal representatives of all the various banks,

Hello to the lords and ladies of the HOL,

Hello to the members of the OFT

Hello to the employees of the "pay as you go" reclaim companies fishing for tips.

 

... and finally... Hello to the various visiting MP's maybe contemplating claiming back their bank charges... via their expenses claims !!


---------------------------

ARE YOU A BUSINESS CLAIMANT?

 

CAG NOW HAVE A BUSINESS CLAIMS FORUM !

GO HERE !

 

CAN'T FIND WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR?

 

Look here.

Got your old T&C's ?

Visit this thread to help others.

 

-----------------------------

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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yeah, still 9 guests.

 

I hope its the banks.... read about all the extra interest you are going to have to pay out! :D


 

 

HSBC WON three times!!!!! Read about my continuing battle (claim FOUR!) Link HERE

Capital One WON Link

HERE

GE capital (5 accounts) WON link HERE

Lloyds bank account WON second claim starting! link HERE

Budget insurance cough up WON link HERE

Principles WON link HERE

A&L (Mrs Crusher's account) claim link HERE

Barclays claim link HERE

 

Any advice given is on an informal basis only and without prejudice or liability. In in any doubt, consult a qualified lawyer.

IF YOU HAVE GOT YOUR MONEY BACK, PUT SOME BACK INTO THE SITE TO HELP KEEP IT OPEN!

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Actually I don't agree that positive balance interest would have to be repaid - that is part of the agreement with the bank that they pay you interest on + balances, and deduct it on - balances.

 

All we are reclaiming here is the interest deducted on the charges themselves, as 1) the charges are unfair, and 2) they have directly contributed to/exacerbated the - balance.

 

Sorry if I am a bit slow off the mark here and this has already been explained.


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Actually I don't agree that positive balance interest would have to be repaid - that is part of the agreement with the bank that they pay you interest on + balances, and deduct it on - balances.

 

All we are reclaiming here is the interest deducted on the charges themselves, as 1) the charges are unfair, and 2) they have directly contributed to/exacerbated the - balance.

 

Sorry if I am a bit slow off the mark here and this has already been explained.

 

I think it all comes down to the manner in which the charges etc are reimbursed.

 

If the charges etc are allowed to stand then they are reclaimed at the point in time that the case is found. i.e. the balance is correct and an adjustment is made via the payment in refund.

 

If the charges are amended to a prescribed value/ removed, then this is done at the time the charge was applied. This affects the balance at that time.

 

Since the arguement is that the charge be removed at the time it was applied - it would need to be in order to reclaim the charged interest, since amendment after the fact would not impact on the charged interest. Then there is an arguement that to remove the charged interest at the time must result in an alteration of the balance at that time which must affect the paid interest.

 

I am curious why Bankfodder would think otherwise.

 

I'm also new to this discussion and could be talking utter tosh, of course.

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The interest paid by the bank is due to you on YOUR money and should not be taken into consideration, IMO. And in most cases the amount people have "gained" is negligible - some people have not been out of their overdraft for years - yours truly being an example - therefore "interest paid" does not exist on my statements!

 

We cannot effectively rewrite the statements as if the charges were never applied, because that would adjust all the balances and in effect if it brought you ought of the red then MORE interest would be due to you.

 

All we want is the portion of interest that directly relates to the corresponding charges, nothing more.


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With due respect, BF, what do you mean by this

 

"the bank might only offere the difference between the charge and the OFT fair charge"

 

June is about whether the terms can be assessed for fairness. The secondary part is whether certain terms are fair. Under UTCCR 1999 if the term is unfair then it doesn't exist and the totality of the charges are refundable under the specific term(and interest as well).

There is no OFT threshold amount that will be applied, period. There are other issues that we are touching the base of which are inter related but I think if you want that sort of discussion then it has to be on another thread. This THREAD is specifically to do with claiming interest and not speculation as to what could or would or will happen when the OFT test case ends. I am skating on that line even with this post because the thread should stick to current claims and the way interest is claimed.

OHOH, love the spready btw. Will that calculate the charges automatically?

Is there a way to amend the overdraft percentage/rate which may have be increased/decreased over a period in which charges can be reclaimed?


.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 2143 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

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