Why let your bank keep your money? Calculating your charges claim

[ohoh4312]

AA99, and anyone else - please hang fire!

 

I have just removed the spreadie, and am currently altering it.

 

I was struggling with the formulas recalulating when everyone inserts lines, as they will need to, to accommodate the varying amounts of charges each month, and I just couldn't get my head round it.

 

Now I think I have cracked it, so I will repost in a bit.

 

You can all blame it on me being blonde, but my excuse is the streaming cold I am battling with - and no, I haven't kissed any pigs lately.

 

I'll be back.......

[ohoh4312]

Okay, sorted now. A simple solution to something that has bugged me for 3 days.

 

So now the formula exists in every cell in Column B - except the very first, as it is assumed that you had to incur charges to be charged interest on those charges.

 

This means it doesn't matter where your interest charge falls on the spreadie, as long as you use Column H for the actual figure, the calculation will automatically occur. Hopefully that should remove the need for inserting/removing rows, and generally make life easier.

 

I could kick myself for being so dumb, and apologies if you copied the original version.

 

I am not saying it is perfect btw, so I still need feedback please.

Draft Int Calc2.xls

[AA99]

Ah cool, don't worry, well done, take it easy, I just keep saving over the last one! Just let us know when you're done;) Now pour a tot of scotch into a Lemsip and have an instant hot toddy and tomorrow's another day:D

[sunflower99]

Removed post

Edited June 5, 2009 by sunflower99

[Ibsys]

Calculation of interest is fairly easy. Just look at the statement and it shows charges, returned items, unauthorised borrowing, hardcore, etc,add this up and put it in the Excel box for the month, then in the next column, add interest (8% over base rate) Late payment of Commercial Debts (Interest) Act 1998, add it month by month and put the bill in

[ohoh4312]

Would you care to elaborate please? I have just read the Act that you refer to, and I cannot see how it is applicable to bank accounts.

 

Also, I see no mention of 8% above base rate, or any actual rate quoted, so I am very curious as to where you got this info.

[Stubie]

Would you care to elaborate please? I have just read the Act that you refer to, and I cannot see how it is applicable to bank accounts.

 

Also, I see no mention of 8% above base rate, or any actual rate quoted, so I am very curious as to where you got this info.

 

Beat me to it, I was curious about that too.

 

Although, at present the difference is not significant, presumably, if this is correct then the rate should track although this would be a nightmare to calculate retrospectively.

[GuidoT]

LPCDA relating to business to business transactions based on an invoice. Not applicable here to bank charges.

[Ibsys]

I retain a debt collector who collect debts for me. And to comfirm they add interest along with this Act. Please note also that Lloyds are now writing their charges as "invoices" and so I will write my demands as an invoice. I know they won't pay up readily so it is something I can pass onto that debt collector who will use this Act for purposes of interest. They tell me 25% of their business is to collect from banks.

[Ibsys]

Statutory Interest Calculator

 

This link shows how the interest is worked out . (8% plus base rate)

[GuidoT]

Have a look here, relevant part lifted below:

 

'2 Contracts to which Act applies

 

(1) This Act applies to a contract for the supply of goods or services where the purchaser and the supplier are each acting in the course of a business, other than an excepted contract.'

 

If the charges relating to a business claim then you may have some prospect of arguing the LPCDA applies, but if you have a business claim then you have more fundamental difficulties than this with the principle sum.

 

Anyway this is all going very off topic.

Edited June 5, 2009 by GuidoT

[Notty]

I wonder if you could clarify a couple of points for me before I embark on my second claim against my bank. I originally claimed £2964 in charges in 2006. I also claimed the 8% another £237.12. The claim was not paid for another 3 months so I suppose I could have added the 8% for the months it was in court? I want to claim the interest that Bankfodder has told us about and I was in the process of reclaiming another £600 in charges for 2006-2009. Now I know I cannot claim the 8% again or the charges again for my first claim but I assume I can claim the interest on the overdraft for 2000-2009. I am worried that I will do this correctly and dont want to make a pigs ear of it. The final thing I wanted to ask is I have a few missing statements for the early years if I sent the bank the SAR would I be able to amend my claim accordingly? I wanted to get it done quickly before the June deadline. Any help much appreciated.

[ohoh4312]

Okay, yes you can claim the interest charged on the charges that you have already claimed for, and the subsequent charges + interest.

 

SAR requests have a statutory 40 day time limit, so you will not receive the info before the HoL judgement, but it is not set in stone that their judgement will be the end of the matter.

 

I would say that you need to get onto this asap, but do not be put off by the HoL date, as I really don't think any major judgement will be handed down then.

 

Sorry have to go, but I will be back tomorrow x

[Notty]

When you are claiming back charges and interest from a bank I always assumed that whilst the account was in dispute that the bank could not issue proceedings against you but I have just read on another thread that they can? Any views.

[phatram]

Bankfodder, and all.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that you should also make claim for the additional interest the bank has applied/deprived you of due to the charges.

 

By also accounting for such interest, you often quite quickly reach a point whereby you can actually see that any subsequent "overdraft excess" or "limit breach" that then later gave rise to charges arose solely due to accumulated earlier charges and the interest upon such.

 

I would even suggest considering going even further.

 

Many people are also forced at some point to take consolidation loans with their banks in order to repay "borrowing".

.... borrowing that is often solely or mostly originally made up of charges and interest upon such !!

 

The calculations are admittedly a bit more involved and difficult to determine, but for anyone who makes the effort the results can be quite an eye opener !!

 

The chain of events would go something like this:

 

1/ You incur bank charges.

 

2/ The bank applies/deprives you of account interest as a result.

 

3/ The bank then puts you under pressure to take out a consolidation loan, to repay your existing borrowing .... but we contend that this existing borrowing consisted either solely or largely of charges and interest upon your original account.

 

4/ The consolidation loan then incurs yet more interest.

 

5/ ALSO...the account you make the loan installments from, then incurs/ is deprived of further interest due to making the monthly loan repayments.

 

6/ As a result, the account that the installments are made from then goes overdrawn..... often due largely to the loan installments... thus incurring even more charges, and interest.

 

........ and the whole cycle starts all over again.

 

 

I am currently working on modifying some of Mindzais sheets to try and create a set of (preferably a single) spreadsheets that would more easily allow the calculation of such a chain of events.

 

I am no mathematician or accountant though, and work on such is slow, so if anyone else more competent is interested in helping me then post up here or get in touch?

 

Such spreadsheets are currently being worked on in "Open Office", which is free to download software from the web, meaning that you wouldn't need to buy any software to use them, and also means they can be universally used on either PC or Mac.

 

PM

 

Similar to this ?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/71441-loans.html

[ohoh4312]

When you are claiming back charges and interest from a bank I always assumed that whilst the account was in dispute that the bank could not issue proceedings against you but I have just read on another thread that they can? Any views.

 

Did you read that they CAN, or that they have done?

 

The answer is NO, they cannot, but that doesn't stop them trying.

 

In fact I was discussing this issue with BankFodder very recently, and he is vociferous in his opinion of this practice. On the subject of claims that have been stayed by the Court due to the Test Case, BF's view is that by pursuing/continuing enforcement action the banks are undermining the judicial process. I couldn't agree more, and I am taking my bank to task on this basis.

 

The banks seem to think that the waiver works totally in their favour, and gives them carte blanche to turn the screws on their customers every which way they can.

 

WRONG.

 

The waiver - although I do not agree with it in its entirety - does afford protection to us from this very practice, and we need to make sure that the banks are reminded of this at every opportunity.

 

Can you imagine the uproar if a bank started litigation proceedings against you for the recovery of an amount which was already the subject of a Court claim?? The judge would look none too kindly on the fact that his decision on a case, that was dependant on the result of another case, had been usurped by counter-litigation.

 

Thats my view anyway.

[Notty]

No they havent started proceedings against me but I have recently read that they could. On all of the claims I have made I was always under the impression that once the account was in dispute they couldnt do anymore until it went to court but obviously wrong again. Its seems the banks have everything going for them. Also read about the agreements that the card companies do not have to bring the proper agreement to court but a copy will surfice? What is that all about. Makes you think though. All very odd.

[Reader]

Hi I am just in the process of claiming charges, can you clarify if I can just claim the last 6 years worth of charges or can I claim from when the account was opened?

 

Thanks Reader

[AA99]

Hi I am just in the process of claiming charges, can you clarify if I can just claim the last 6 years worth of charges or can I claim from when the account was opened?

 

Thanks Reader

 

Spend £10 on an SAR (template in the library), insist on receiving every single bit of written paper ever held about you, complete list of all telecons too, and claim back from DAY 1

 

oops, sorry, just remembered, they have 40 days to comply so you won't meet the hearing on 22 June, but think you should put in a claim for as far back as you can in the meantime.....

Edited June 7, 2009 by AA99
afterthought :(

[Reader]

Thanks AA99 the thing is that Crap One and MBNA have not sent any statements in relation to my SAR request - I have had to chase them they know they will be in trouble!

 

Thanks Reader

[AA99]

Thanks AA99 the thing is that Crap One and MBNA have not sent any statements in relation to my SAR request - I have had to chase them they know they will be in trouble!

 

Thanks Reader

 

Use the Information Commissioners Office to force them to produce them. Do it online, quick and easy.... any hassle in the meantime, refer them to the ICO complaint in progress and it'll keep them at bay at least

 

https://forms.ico.gov.uk/freedom-of-information-or-eir-complaint.aspx

[car2403]

Use the Information Commissioners Office to force them to produce them. Do it online, quick and easy.... any hassle in the meantime, refer them to the ICO complaint in progress and it'll keep them at bay at least

 

https://forms.ico.gov.uk/freedom-of-information-or-eir-complaint.aspx

 

Or just sue for non-compliance

[AA99]

Or just sue for non-compliance

 

Thanks car, have you a quick thread/template letter on how to sue......

[Ibsys]

I don't have a direct way to say how to sue only to use things like court orders. I am going to a debt collector who will persue the bank for me and cover all the fees but as I am a business with other debts which need collecting then this will be treated as another debt. There are a lot of scams about so if you do this then you have to check the company is proffesional and does things properly.

[Bookworm]

oops, sorry, just remembered, they have 40 days to comply so you won't meet the hearing on 22 June, but think you should put in a claim for as far back as you can in the meantime.....

I'm sorry, I haven't been on as much as usual lately, so I may have missed something, but why the big rush to get a claim in before the HOL hearing? :-?

 

This hearing is just one more step in the long drawn-out process of the judicial system and whichever way it goes (and it is fairly unlikely to change directions drastically, let's face it), it is still going to be a long way from ending this test case, so I am a bit confused right now. Unless I have missed some momentous news, of course, in which case can someone point me to that? Thanks.

 

(s) Intrigued of Croydon. ;-)