Lloyds TSB, Global Debt Recovery, CCA request and a dilemma

[The Riviera Kid]

Hi folks,

 

First of all sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, or too long winded - I'm a complete novice to posting on here.

 

A long and complicated tale....

 

I had been a customer of Lloyds Bank (later Lloyds TSB) since childhood (10 years +). In 1999 I took out a loan for approximately £10'000 with PPI insurance. In 2000 and completely out of the blue I was made redundant with very little notice. I attempted to soldier on paying the loan while looking for work, but my bank balance was swallowed up quite quickly. I later rang to claim on my PPI just to be turned down flat. I then tried to negotiate lower payments again to be turned down flat. Lloyds TSB continued debiting my Lloyds TSB bank account for full loan payments, running up a huge overdraft. A loyal long term customer treated like a mere statistic. I became quite depressed at this point.

 

I started to receive strange letters from companies such as "The Winged Messenger" (who I later learned were Global Debt Recovery under another name). I panicked, rang a paid debt management company and went into debt management - not realising that this was probably destroying my credit file even more. After a couple of years in debt management the debt management company themselves turned out to be cowboys and the owner ran off with their customers money leaving me and others high and dry.

 

Depression turned to anger, and despite struggling with illness and a poorly paid part time job I decided to take the bull by the horns in 2004 or 2005, and after much research via the internet (something not available to me before then) I complained to the FOS regarding the PPI and the defaults on my credit file. Lloyds TSB agreed to refund the PPI, but the defaults would not be removed. I disputed having one default on my file - never mind a second one because of Lloyds TSB debiting an empty account. At this point I demanded to see a copy of my original signed agreements for loan and PPI, because my branch manager at the time of signing had not only said I'd be covered, but that my credit rating would be safe while the policy paid out. At this point Lloyds TSB stated that the original CCA and PPI agreements were no longer available. To me this was cut and dried, no CCA - no way of proving what I had signed for - surely they should remove the defaults from my credit file and allow me to pay something on my terms until I was in a position to increase payments? The FOS were unsympathetic and said something about "the balance of probability". After nearly a year of sending letters backwards and forwards, feeling utterly defeated - I accepted the refund of PPI in "full and final settlement of your claim against LLoyds TSB". The form I signed refers to an attached letter from the FOS which sets out that the claim is only about PPI....not strictly true. The letter also states that I must make payments of £30 per month via "Lloyds collecting agents - Global Debt Recovery".

 

After making payments for some years, I heard an advert on the radio earlier this year claiming that debts taken out before 2007 may be unenforcible due to incorrect or missing credit agreements. I decided to use this company, despite a fee of £550 being payable, as I simply didn't want to do it alone. I'm currently suffering from stress related health problems. The company is question has got as far as requesting the CCA from Lloyds TSB who after about a month are currently playing ignorant. As far as I was aware the debt was with Lloyds TSB and Global were only their "collecting agents". Lloyds should have the CCA should't they?

 

I decided to do some research on Global Debt Recovery as I have found them to be somewhat disagreeable in the past, especially a very argumentative man called "Simon". I have since found out from the CAG forums that a company called FV-1 have bought the debt, despite Global trying to pretend that they're still collecting on behalf of Lloyds. The paperwork they send regularly backs this up, as it now says "Client: FV-1" where it had said previously "Client: Lloyds TSB" and later "Client: Lloyds TSB/FV-1".

 

I did some further research and found that neither FV-1 or Global appear to have the required data protection registration to tamper with my credit file (Purpose 6?). I ordered my credit files online and the debt from Lloyds TSB has dropped off my file, and presumably because FV-1/Global cannot update the file - so my file is clean.

 

The dilema I have is that after being treated like dog dirt, stressed to the point of almost considering the cowards way out, conned by a debt management company, and largely fobbed off by the FOS - my credit file is finally clean again - and from what I can tell FV-1/Global aren't currently allowed to mess it up again....

 

....if I continue with my CCA request, I might finally get a small fraction of the "compensation" I deserve in that the loan will be unenforcible. However I'm worried that FV-1/Global will simply sell the debt on even though it's clearly next to worthless, and I'll end up with a different bunch of DCA cretins trying to intimidate me into paying. Could they do this? Even more worryingly could they sell it onto another DCA who could then register another default? Can they actually register a default when no signed CCA is available, and if they do can it be removed? Will removing it prove so difficult that it puts me in an early grave. My family and I would like to buy our council house at some point in the future when I'm well enough to work full time. A clean credit file is essential to this plan.

 

The alternative is that I inform the claims company to tell me the moment it becomes clear that Lloyds TSB/FV-1/Global have no CCA - ring Global telling them that this "alleged" debt is near worthless to them as there is no CCA - and see if they'll play ball and agree settlement for peanuts (I'm thinking £1000 or under).

 

I feel so confused, I'm as the Americans say "caught between a rock and a hard place", what the hell do I do?

[cerberusalert]

A default can only be registered once for a debt, after six years it drops off your credit file automatically and cannot be reapplied.

 

Carry on with your CCA request, you already know that there isn't an enforceable agreement in place so they cannot pursue it any further, if they do you should make a complaint to the OFT.

 

You could also SAR http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca the original creditor with a view to reclaiming all the unfair charges they have added to both accounts.

[The Riviera Kid]

For the record folks, all I ever wanted was breathing space to pay my original debt to Lloyds. If only the PPI had did what my branch manager said it would do and given me a few months to go and find another good full time job, I would have likely settled it years ago for the full ammount they wanted. I have been in a living hell, intimidated, made to feel worthless, robbed, stressed, depressed and forced to scrape by. I wouldn't be considering trying to get this off my back for peanuts if it wasn't a last resort. "Simon" told me (well - shouted at me) earlier this year "You don't honestly think we'll carry on accepting £30 payments forever do you?". I hope nobody thinks I'm trying to avoid this debt, I'm simply trying to shake off these people and get on a level footing again for my familys sake.

[The Riviera Kid]

A default can only be registered once for a debt, after six years it drops off your credit file automatically and cannot be reapplied.

 

Carry on with your CCA request, you already know that there isn't an enforceable agreement in place so they cannot pursue it any further, if they do you should make a complaint to the OFT.

 

You could also SAR http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca the original creditor with a view to reclaiming all the unfair charges they have added to both accounts.

 

I do so hope this is true cerberusalert. I spoke to a family friend who works for National Debtline, and they seemed to be saying that if I annoy Global, they'll sell the debt on to anothr DCA who will simply re-register another default (or revive the original one) against the debt.

[cerberusalert]

It's not a case of avoiding debt, in your case the bank has had it's 'pound of flesh' & so have the DCAs, all you are doing is using the law to ensure that an enforceable agreement is in place and to recover monies taken from you by unfair charges.

[cerberusalert]

I suggest you have a read of Cheekiness towards a DCA - The Consumer Forums annoying DCAs is something of a sport on this site. BTW, if they did try to re-register the default it can easily be removed again. Also I suggest you tell your friend about this site, he might learn something from it.

[The Riviera Kid]

Another hard night at work over with.

 

Thank you for your time cerberusalert. So let me double check I have this right. (I've also read forum post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/194194-decides-6-year-rule.html)

 

(1) Only the original finance company can issue a default

(2) Only one default can be issued for each debt

(3) Once it's dropped off the credit file after 6 years, it cannot be resurrected in any way

(4) DCA's cannot issue defaults (unless they are part of an in-house debt collecting team for the finance company)

 

So am I right to conclude that now the defaults have dropped off my credit file, that my file is safe from any further blackening in relation to these debts?

 

In the event that the original CCA is located (which sounds highly unlikely), my credit file will still be safe, but I will need to negotiate a settlement with Global? If the CCA can't be located, I simply say "goodnight vienna" and ignore any further silly tactics from them?

 

Thanks again for your help, it is much appreciated. My head was pounding earlier on. The funny DCA baiting thread certainly raised a smile

[cerberusalert]

Yes your credit file is safe once the defaults have dropped off.

 

If they cannot provide an enforceable CCA they are well and truly 'cooked'.

[The Riviera Kid]

Thanks cerberusalert

[The Riviera Kid]

One last question, probably more open to speculation than actual definitive answers.

 

As Lloyds TSB have sold this debt on, is it likely that they have now destroyed all records of the debt? They claimed to have no record of it when the claims company requested the CCA. The claims company is currently requesting the CCA from Global/FV-1.

 

The reason I ask is that I have a long standing Halifax Cardcash bank account which was taken to pay my wages into after all the original trouble with Lloyds TSB. Halifax have offered to upgrade me to a normal current account with £100 overdraft....but Lloyds TSB recently bought/merged with Halifax which worries me.

 

I don't think I'd want to do any more business with a Lloyds TSB owned company, but as the account is long standing and well managed - I also don't want to change banks willy nilly. I don't want Lloyds looking at my Halifax account, putting 2+2 together and somehow conspiring to play funny buggers in some way. Is this likely?

[cerberusalert]

As it stands now banks can offset between a/cs so if the have software in place where they can cross reference between the data they hold on their systems or indeed have merged their systems it is likely that they will eventually discover a link between the a/cs. So it would be wise to open a parachute a/c with a totally unrelated bank, in fact I have just done so myself with both the Co-operative & Natwest and have had no difficulties whatsoever.