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    • it is NOT A FINE.....this is an extremely important point to understand no-one bar a magistrate in a magistrates criminal court can ever fine anyone for anything. Private Parking Tickets (speculative invoices) are NOT a criminal matter, merely a speculative contractual Civil matter hence they can only try a speculative monetary claim via the civil county court system (which is no more a legal powers matter than what any member of Joe Public can do). Until/unless they do raise a county court claim a CCJ and win, there are not ANY enforcement powers they can undertake other than using a DCA, whom are legally powerless and are not BAILIFFS. Penalty Charge Notices issued by local authorities etc were decriminalised years ago - meaning they no longer can progress a claim to the magistrates court to enforce, but go directly to legal enforcement via a real BAILIFF themselves. 10'000 of people waste £m's paying private parking companies because they think they are FINES...and the media do not help either. the more people read the above the less income this shark industry get. where your post said fine it now says charge .............. please fill out the Q&A ASAP. dx  
    • Well done on reading the other threads. If ECP haven't got the guts to do court then there is no reason to pay them. From other threads there is a 35-minute free stay after which you need to pay, with the signs hidden where no-one will read them.  Which probably explains why ECP threaten this & threaten that, but in the end daren't do court. As for your employer - well you can out yourself as the driver to ECP so the hamster bedding will arrive at yours.  Get your employer to do that using the e-mail address under Appeals and Transfer Of Liability.  
    • good you are getting there. Lloyds/TSb...i certainly would not be risking possible off-setting going on if a choice were there, but in all honestly thats obv too late now..., however..you might not never be in that situation so dont worry too much. regardless to being defaulted or not, if any debt that is not paid/used in 6yrs it becomes statute barred. you need to understand a couple of things like 'default' and 'default notice' a default is simply a recorded D in the calendar section/history of a debt, it does not really mean anything. might slightly hit your rating. the important thing here is a default notice , these are issued by the original creditor (OC) under the consumer credit act, it gives you 14 days to settle whatever they are asking, if you don't then they have the option to register a defaulted date on your credit file. that can make getting other credit more difficult. and hits your rating. once that happens, not matter what you do after that, paying it or not or not paid off or not, the whole account vanishes from your credit file on the DN's 6th b'day. though that might not necessarily mean the debt is not still owed - thats down to the SB date above. an OC very rarely does court and only the OWNER of a debt can instigate any court action (Attempted a CCJ) DCA's debt collection agencies - DCA's are NOT BAILIFFS they have ZERO legal powers on ANY debt - no matter what it's TYPE. an OC make pass a debt to a dca as their client to try and spoof people into paying through legal ignorance of the above statement. an OC may SELL on an old debt to a DCA/debt buyer (approx 10p=£1) and then claim their losses through tax write off and their business insurance, wiping their hands of the debt. the DCA then becomes the debt OWNER. since the late 70's dca's pull all kinds of 'stunts' through threat-o-grams to spoof a debtor into paying them the full value of the debt, when they bought if for a discounted sum (typically 10p=£1). you never pay a dca a penny! if read carefully, NONE of their letters nor those of any other 'trading names' they spoof themselves under making it seem it's going up some kind of legitimate legal 'chain' say WILL anything....just carefully worded letters with all kinds of threats of what could/might/poss happen with other such words as instruct forward pass... well my dog does not sit when instructed too...so... DCA's SOMETIMES will issue a court claim, but in all honesty its simply a speculative claim hoping mugs wet themselves and cough up...oh im going to court... BIG DEAL DCA - show me the enforceable paperwork signed by me...9/10 they dont have it and if your defence is conducted properly, most run away from you . however before they do all that they now have to send a letter of claim, cause the courts got fed up with them issuing +750'000PA speculative claims and jamming up the legal system. so bottom line is two conclusions.... if you cant pay a debt, get a DN issued ASAP (stop paying it!) make sure it gets registered on your file then it stops hurting your file/future credit in 6yrs regardless to what happens (bar of course a later DCA CCJ - fat chance mind!)  once you've a registered DN , then look into restarting payments if the debt is still owed by the OC, if SOLD to a DCA, don't pay - see if they issue a letter of claim (then comeback here!).        
    • Any update here?  I ask as we have someone new being hassled for parking at this site.
    • Any update here?  I ask as we have someone new being hassled for parking at this site.
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Missy - v - 1st Credit


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Hi I got into a bit of bother with the repayments on a citifinance loan taken out in Jan 06.

 

I got into an arrears situation, falling behind by about 3-4 months, but still making payments ish. I sorted my financial position out but the debt was passed on to 1st credit. I dont remember receiving a deed of assignment.

 

I phoned 1st Credit. and made a payment and they asked for me to confirm lots of personal details. I confirmed my name DOB and address and I replied that my personal situation has not changed and they should have all relevant info passed to them by Citifinance.

 

They insisted on my phone number which I refused saying they could contact me via letter. They got very snotty and said "refusing to cooperate would not look good in front of a judge". Remember I had just phone to make a payment and to agree to future payments. I could not believe it.

 

Anyway I sent a CCA request and received a reply 1 month later. Please see attached. The last page is missing because i can only upload 5 sheets.

 

My questions are

 

1. Is this CCA legal? It seems to have all the relevant info however I read the signature has to be on the same page as the all the other info.

 

2. The covering letter says it is only an edited copy, should I insist on the full version.

 

3. Am I entitled to a copy of the deed of assignment.

 

4. I think there are charges in the amount that 1st credit is claiming. Can I put things on hold until that is resolved and if so how do I put that in writing.

 

Thanks for any help with this.

 

Missy

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Yep www.photobucket.com is free and there is a tutorial link here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html - I would also urge you to report them to the OFT as what they said to you is completely out of order.....

 

To answer your other questions, you will not see a 'deed' of assignment, this is a confidential document detailing a business transaction....you probably mean 'notice' of assignment.....you should receive one form the original creditor stating that the debt had been sold/assigned to 1st Credit and one from 1st Credit saying they had been assigned the debt......

 

Also did you ever receive a default notice ?

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Hi pics now uploaded using photobucket

 

cheers

 

 

Yep www.photobucket.com is free and there is a tutorial link here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html - I would also urge you to report them to the OFT as what they said to you is completely out of order.....

 

To answer your other questions, you will not see a 'deed' of assignment, this is a confidential document detailing a business transaction....you probably mean 'notice' of assignment.....you should receive one form the original creditor stating that the debt had been sold/assigned to 1st Credit and one from 1st Credit saying they had been assigned the debt......

 

Also did you ever receive a default notice ?

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Interesting there doesn't seem to be any connection between the prescribed terms and the signature page.....(although it could possibly be down the judge on the day) but if you read it in line with this -

 

A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

Did you ever receive a default notice ?

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The signed CCA agreement I received was 4 separate A4 sheets. All the loan details on sheet 1 and the signature on sheet 2.

 

Remember this, according to the covering letter, is an edited copy. They are asking me to confirm my signature before sending a complete copy. I seem to remember seeing, in another thread, a template to send saying they did not need me to confirm my signature to send the correct documents.

 

Does anyone have the link to this please and I will get it sent tomorrow.

 

Anyother comments on the sig. being on a separate page would be welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Missy

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Hi Again

 

Just to add to the above post I will also issue a SARN for all information held on account by them. Can i ask for a copy of all letters sent to me as I think they have issued a default notice in the past and I foolishly did not keep it. I would like to check if it is worded correctly.

 

Missy

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edit to suit

 

Dear Sirs,

 

RE Account NO XXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2009 in which you say that you will not comply with my request dated xxx under s.78(1) of the `Consumer Credit Act 1974 unless I provide you with a signature.

 

There is no requirement under the Act that require a s.78(1) request to be accompanied by a signature, and I am unable to accede to your request.

 

Further, I note that you have sent statements and correspondence containing sensitive private information to me at same address as that detailed in my s.78(1) request. If you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person I wonder why you have not verified the information before.

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998. The time to confirm my identity was before you sent your first threat letter.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 78(1) was made on xx/xx/2009 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xx/xx/2009. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

 

Please now comply with your legal obligation without further delay.

 

 

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I had a loan with Citi and my agreement was exactly the same. PeterBard had mine and he said it was enforceable. I felt that there was something amiss with Citifinancial back in Jan 07 and I did a SAR and sure enough they were adding £10 each month to my account. Correspondence went back and forth for many months, their screen shots were difficult to understand but nowhere on the screen shots was the £10 charge shown only on the statement that they provided. In June 07 I received a letter from them saying that they were sorry I was not happy but they would respond again within 28 days. Some months later I received a telphone call from a DCA advising that they now owned the account. I told them to write to me, I then sent a CCA letter, however, they were unable to produce a copy of the agreement, but I do know for a fact that Citi did hold a valid one but they never passed it onto the DCA. It has always puzzled me what Citi's game has been and obvsiouly as they had a compliant agreement why they never took me to court, after all the loan was only six months into a 48 month contract.

 

When you get the results of your SAR from Citi read them thoroughly. I had a devil of a job to get the paperwork from them and I had to report them to the ICO, after which they complied.

 

Good luck with this.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Here is an update.

 

I sent a letter to 1st asking for a true copy of my CCA agreement via registered post at the end of last month. Ir you remember from a previous post I was sent some photo copied sheets where the details of the loan and the signature block were on different pages.

 

I heard nothing until today where I have received an offer of 30% off if I pay within 7 days.

 

Missy

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  • 1 month later...

OK here is an update.

 

Received another letter offering a 30% discount, I ignored that as before.

 

Then received a letter from DHS (Debt Help Services).

 

What I don't understand is if they believe I owe this money then why don't they just take me to court.

 

Should I send a SARN to the original loan company or to 1st?

 

regards

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Update:

 

I have not sent the SARN yet however I received a letter from 1st today. The letter, in a nutshell, says fill in the standing order mandate or we will send an Agent to your house.

 

Should I ignore or should I send the "don't send anyone to my house as it is threatening and illegal' letter?

 

Again, if they are confident the CCA is in order then why don't they just go straight to court?

 

missy

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update

 

Sent letter saying "you have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account etc. etc. and that the account was now in dispute ( the letter from the library).

 

Anyway I receive a reply acknowledging the complaint with an outline of the complaints procedure.

 

So we will see what happens.

 

Missy

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