Default Removal Robbrad vs Hutchinson Three

[Robbrad]

Got my experian credit file the other day and found it to be all good apart from one entry from Hutchinson - Default Satisfied for the value of £98.

 

Now towards the end of my contract with Three I remeber getting a bill for £98 and paying it - no default notice, no final demand

 

So I have taken the forums advice and sent the following off on the 14th of May 2009

 

THE APPEALS OFFICER,

CREDIT REFERRALS,

THREE,

123, ST VINCENT STREET,

GLASGOW,

G2 5EA

Date: 14/05/09 Account Ref: Account number - xxxx

Dear Sir or Madam

After recently obtaining a copy of my credit file from Experian I was concerned to note that your company has placed a "Default" notice against a mobile phone account in my name.

Further to this I have no recollection of ever receiving such a notice, and I therefore require you to substantiate this data at your earliest convenience.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Ref Number xxxx.

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 12 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that it is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

Yours faithfully

 

Fingurs Crossed

[Robbrad]

Had no reply after the 12 days elapsed so I sent the following

 

THE APPEALS OFFICER,

CREDIT REFERRALS,

THREE,

123, ST VINCENT STREET,

GLASGOW,

G2 5EA

Date: 28/05/09 Account Ref: Account number – x

Mobile Phone No - x

Dear Sir or Madam

Further to the letter you received on the 15/05/2009 at the above address. The 12 days to provide information about the default notice has now elapsed.

Further investigation to my credit file reveals it is a default for £98. From the records you have about myself I have previously been a customer with Three twice and promptly paid my bills on time over a period amounting to more than 20 months.

I received no default notice or demands for the amount from Three until a debt collection agency contacted me once for the amount which was promptly paid the same day direct to Three.

This default notice on my credit file is stopping me from getting a mortgage and I feel it is unjust considering there was no notification of the default action and based on my history with Three as a customer that this kind of action could take place.

I am now issuing you with 10 days to remove the default from my credit file before I proceed with escalation of the matter with Otelo the telecommunications ombudsman and information commissioner.

Yours faithfully

 

Now time to wait some more....

 

I think the govenment needs to take a look at these companies who are allowed to process a default on your credit file without warning! I cant imagine how much it has cost me in intrest from higher rate credit cards - thank you experian for my credit file! and thanks some more to these forums for the info!

[buzby]

You are being highly unrealistic in your demands by asking them to react and reply within 10 days. I think 28 is more reasonable, however, as you did agree for the release of your financial dealings data as part of your contract, complaining about it now when the data isn't to you liking may be a challenge.

 

Either way - pester power may work, but it'll be a long haul!

[Robbrad]

Thanks for the advice I will keep on at them - another letter at 28 days from the first to remind them of the obligation to provide default notice proof is my next port of call.

 

Unless they provide the relevant information

[Robbrad]

OK iv had a reply - hard to say whether this is a reply to my initial letter or the second

 

I'm sorry to hear about your concerns regarding your credit file amendment. I can understand its frustration that you can't get a mortgage due to this.

Your overdue balance was £97. We tried to contact you via phone and also sent you letters informing about this before transferring your account to a debt collection agency. It's possible that you didn't receive the letters because you changed your address.

'

Your default balance and the payment history will remain on the credit file as a true reflection of how the account was managed. Credit file amended will show the account balance has been paid and the default payment is now satisfied. I'm sorry that we can't amend the details of the payment history or the default balance.

Your account is in credit of £1.20. I've arranged to send you a cheque for this amount to nullify your account balance.

I hope the information about your credit file amendment helps and you receive the cheque soon. You can tell us what you thought about how we handled this by doing a Quick survey - just go to http://www.three.co.uk/responsesurvey. We'd love to hear from you, and we'll use your feedback to help improve the way we do things.

If there’s anything else we can help you with, give us a call free on 333 from any 3 mobile or 08707 330333 (national rate) from any phone. We'll be happy to help you.

Yours sincerely

Mrunali Sasane

3 Customer Services.

 

Where do I go from here - they haven't sent me any information about the default notice nor about my account.

 

Your advice on this would be greatly welcome!

[buzby]

There is 'NEVER' a default 'notice' - they are simply saying your account is in default of the agreed terms of the cobtract. They don't have to tell you about it.

 

That said - you could seek clarification and ask that their noted default should be removed from your credit file in its entirity.

[Robbrad]

Right,

 

Im still a bit unsure how this whole system is 'fair'

 

- I receive no notification of any debt

- I receive no comms about a debt until a debt collection agency send me a bill for the amount

- I pay as soon as I recieve this

-They mark my credit file with a default and I struggle to get credit from that moment on

 

Whos at fault here? how would this stand if I escalated this further eg otelo, court?

 

So Buzby your telling me I should write to them stateing I recieved no notification of a default and would like this removed from my credit file in its entirity? give them say 28 days? and escalate?

 

Should I make a request to retreive all data on me - Im happy to do this but if they dont need to notify me of debt and default then what is the point?

[buzby]

Who said it was fair? If you want to look for someone to blame (being Devil's Advocate), why on earth did you give the network your permission to pass on your financial dealings to a third party? Because they asked and you couldn't be bothered challenging it? Or, because if they refused you as a customer, you'd have been hard pressed to get a mobile phone from anywhere else?

 

By giving up your privacy right willingly, you run the risk of the current situation. As for any 'default' if someone has given me their permission to disclose, and they are late with their payments, I can go to my CRA of choice and tell them... at the moment this is just a late payment, but when the first invoice is overdue and not paid, I can assume they know full well I'm due to be paid, and whilst it may be courteous for me to phone repeatedly and perhaps write, there's no obligation on me to do so.

 

With no payment the following month, I decide I will not undertake any more work for them, placing a 'default' market on their account, which magically gets updated to the same CRA wsho also note it. As I don't have loads of back office staff to chase my debtors, I outsource this to a firm who, for a small commission, will pursue the debt to make them pay up. If they pay, I'll get 80% of the debt (which is less than the cost of all those employees previously used to send all those 'please pay me' letters.

 

If no payment is made, my DCA may well offer an additional service, where it will buy the debt off me for 40-60% of the total cost, and I can move on finding customers that will actually pay me. Meanwhile, I don't have to deal with this original customer that refused to pay me, the DCA can have that hassle.

 

Variations on the above theme are fairly standard. However, as we now move to the silly situation that firms are being allowed to charge is more if we want a bill in the post, yet can still default me without sending me ANY letter (the obligation on me as the consumer, remains regardless).

 

So, I am NOT saying you write saying because you were not notified the network should remove your default. They'll probably say no. Your 'loophole' is to identify where they have made a mistake along the line that RESULTED in the default, as because of this you can challenge it as being 'unfair'. They can reject this, and you can go to the ICO, and complain and let them decide if it was 'fair', but under the strict reading of the rules, the data must be accurate and the usual rebuff is you didn't pay, your account was defaulted and the information (of the non-payment) was accurate.

 

Meanwhile, if you hadn't given them the permission, you wouldn't be in this mess.

[Robbrad]

Thanks for the in-depth response.

 

I have subsequently made an information request using - posting the url others might need it.

 

http://www.three.co.uk/inforequest[url=http://www.three.co.uk/inforequest][/url]

 

Cost £10 pounds sent recorded delivery

Hopefully there is some process that hasn’t been followed correctly and I can get this default removed - not sure what else I can do.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Robbrad

[buzby]

That's the process - so hopefully you can get things moving.

 

One thing to note - and I hope it is not too late. They have NO 'right' to know what your date of birth is, and if you look at their forms it makes a great play of asking for this. I treat my DoB like a bank card PIN, as it can unlock a whole pile of nasties. It is there so that they can identify you more easily to their CRA should there be a similarity to the name and address, but when you think of it, that's their problem and not yours - so if you've never provided it, mark it as 'withheld for security reasons'. If future, resist anyone's attempt to get it without just cause. I normally go for 1/1/1900 - and invariably it is accepted!

[Robbrad]

Oh dear I did disclose my DOB - I will take the advice for the future tho thanks.

 

Dam I always learn the hard way...

[Robbrad]

Bit of an update

 

Three UK exec office have just called me (while I was a asleep before my night shift - I said it wasn't a good time , no notification that the call would be recorded)

 

The guy came on the phone asking for my date of birth and address

 

I wrote his name down and the phone number they called me from. He started telling me details of my price plan changes when I was with them and was stating that because I changed address they couldn't contact me and hence why a default was put on my account and that this was a true reflection of my account management.

 

I said I would still like my subject access request and he stated it isn't going to help me get the default removed as it would be illegal for them to remove it this is where he started getting a bit shirty with me and trying to rail road me into agreeing with him.

 

I just repeated I need that information by law and I need a copy of the contact - this is where he said he doesn't have that and it is with car phone warehouse - and I asked how they can put a default on my credit file if it is with the car phone warehouse - this is when he was trying to close the call on me (obviously realising he wasnt getting anywhere)

 

I'm not sure how a call like this would benefit them and why they would make it...

 

This call has upset me a little and I wanted your opinions on this

 

Thanks

Rob

[buzby]

A bit of bluff and bluster, and you were right to stand your ground. When they say they have a 'legal requirement' to show your account management, ask which Law requires them to do this? What they actually are saying, is their commercial arrangement with the CRAs requires them to provide ongoing financial data in return for them giving a credit check on YOU. As you are not a party to this arrangement, you HAVE no obligation, is doesn't serve your interests, and you really don;t have o give a monkey's what THEIR obligations are (legal or otherwise).

 

Actually, even if they cannot provide you with a copy contract, it in no way invalidates your arrangement, as courts are happy to accept evidence of payments made by you, establishing that the arrangement existed. A copy of the current T&C is then supplied to confirm the obligations - all they need is the DATE in which the servce was provided.

[Robbrad]

Thanks again for the advice Buzby,

It’s getting close to the deadline for the Subject Access Request and I still haven’t received a sausage (I have proof they received it).

I have in the mean time installed a program on my phone to record all incoming and outgoing calls just in case some one becomes aggressive again (obviously I would make them aware that the call is being recorded and that they are happy for me to use this - I think this is the correct practice)

I have also contacted the Car Phone Warehouse who quite categorically state that they never hold mobile contracts on Three's behalf or bill the individual and thus don't have the right to alter someone’s credit file - they simply set the contract up and handle sales/upgrades and repairs - So put simply the guy who called me originally from Three's Exec office was lying .

I will keep you posted as to how this progresses.

Thanks

[Jules55]

Lol it is not illegal for them to remove the default, as they are the legal owner of the data in the first place , so they can do as they wish, leave it remove it, change status payment history etc.

 

Also there is no law that states this data has to remain on your credit file for 6 years, they have all just got together and made the whole thing up to mirror the 6 year period for CCJ's etc. They can only follow guidlines on this matter, there is no law! Ask them where this is stated in law lol!

[locutus]

Lots of people ask "Do I have to warn the other side that I am recording them?"

The answer is NO you do not.

 

This is a common misconception.

As long as you are not interfering with the BT phone line then you are breaking no laws. Telephone recording is legal.

 

If you use skype you can get call recording software