Reliable Collections - Help!

[concernedmotherin law]

Help!!

 

I have read everyone of these posts and still don't know what to do.

 

My daughter's boyfriend came to talk to me the other evening regarding a debt that his mother had taken out in 'his name' and had since failed to keep up the payments, it had been passed to Reliable Collections. He was unaware of this debt until a couple of days ago and after him having a number of sleepless night, we have been trying to work out what to do next. At first I though it would be quite straightforward, after reading these forums.... not so.

The major problem is, his mother handwrote a letter to Reliable a couple of weeks ago, requesting a copy of the CCA and disputing charges they had made on the account. This letter she wrote in HIS name! They sent back a letter with the 'True Copy' of the agreement...their words...., not signed by anyone and also today a letter from Fashion World arrived, who I have since found out who the original debt was with, justifying all the charges they have made to the account.

What was a £200 catalogue bill had run to £897.

I went to speak to her to see how she had got into this mess and she told me and my 'son in law' that she had forged his signature to get credit as she couldnt get it in her own name. She realised now that because she hasn't kept up with the payments then his credit file is going to be affected.

I really don't know what to do. If it were me|I would consider it fraud and I would watch my own back and inform on her. He however, doesn't want to get his Mum into trouble. I keep telling him how it will affect him and my daughter and I am at the end of the day trying to protect her.

Any advice would be much apprieciated

[IdaInFife]

hiya,

 

thoguht i read it somewhere!

 

first thing he needs to do is send of a cca request to see if they have an alleged signed agreement:

Your Address

 

Date

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Account/Reference Number 4563210025897412

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

(DELETE THIS BELOW IF YOU ARE SENDING THE LETTER TO THE ORIGNAL CREDITOR AS OPPOSED TO A DEBT COLLECTION AGENCY)

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

print your name

 

 

send recorded delviery and include a £1 postal order

 

ida x

[Bazooka Boo]

I agree with you that it is a clear case of fraud! But I don't think even the coldest of hearts could wash their hands of it and inform the relevant authorities, although i would if it were my stepmother:-x

 

Does she have a copy of the CCA request she sent them, also their reply? Are you able to post their reply on here removing all identifying names, adresses, bar codes, etc.

That way then an expert can take a look and see if it is indeed a true copy, but more to the point a legally enforceable copy!

 

I would tend to ignore any of their costs they have added on, if the actual amount outstanding is paid to them, they are very unlikely to seek any further legal action to recover the rest of their charges.

 

As for your his credit file, he is able to place a marker on it explaining to any future creditor the circumstances surrounding the 'default'.

 

When was the credit taken out? Pre or post April 2007?

[Nagasis]

I take it that now it has been passed to unreliable that the account has defaulted. Any default notice which contains admin / penalty charges is ineffective.

 

I would SAR them and get a copy of all charges, default notice and cca then start ftom there.

[concernedmotherin law]

This is going to be a large post i'm afraid. This is all the paperwork i have-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[concernedmotherin law]

Thank you all so much for replying.

In answer to some of the questions :-

I haven't got a copy of the request she sent them. She handwrote it and didn't copy it.

I asked her for any previous correspondence she had had from them and she has destroyed everything

The CCA she recieved back from them is above back and front.

The letter from Reliable, the one where he found out the debt exsisted is above too.

The Fashion World correspondence is also above.

It is my understanding that this debt was taken out mid 2006

I agree that it is very wrong what she has done. I'm in a real 'tizz' over it all. I just want to make sure he is protected, naive I'm sure

I apologize for the size of the last post, I didn't know of any other way to attach these documents

Edited May 27, 2009 by concernedmotherin law

[concernedmotherin law]

I didn't sleep well last night worrying about this. I have sent off for his credit report from Experian today.

Would really apprieciate some advice on what to do.

[Nagasis]

They obviously don't have a signed credit agreement as they would have sent it instead of that 'unsigned thing'.

 

I personally would send the account in 'distute letter' as far as the cca goes and also sar them for the full list of charges so you can claim them back have have them removed from the outstanding bill. That would leave the true figure. She could then either pay the true figure to clear it or dispute the whole amount as there is no cca.

 

Fashion world/ reliable will not remove the bad info(late payment markers etc if any) from the credit files without a fight tho.

[cerberusalert]

I'd be tempted to send them Scots letter below & see what their response is;

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The items you sent in your reply, does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists.

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until XX/XX/2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute,

 

you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

 

Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[concernedmotherin law]

Thank you for that. I will get this letter sent today RD

[zazen.warrior]

It is very difficult to advise on this due to the fraud aspect; whilst it is highly unlikely an enforceable credit agreement will ever be provided it will never the less drag on for some time and you are at a serious disadvantage legally given the initial deception. Should this come out later on I cannot guess at the consequences.

 

Personally I think the fraud needs to be admitted to go forward at all.

[babybear39]

Subscribing...

[concernedmotherin law]

I had every intention of sending the letter today but something keeps nagging at me that she is in the wrong and the easiest way around all this is for her to admit what she has done, get in transferred into her name and hopefully his credit record will not be affected.

If the decision was mine this is the course of action I would take.

Unfortunately he is adament that he does not want me to 'get her into trouble'. I don't think he fully understands that this could seriously affect him.

What a complete mess!

I will attempt to have another go at sending it tomorrow

[babybear39]

If she can't get credit in her own name, which is why she committed the fraud, it's highly unlikely the company concerned is going to transfer anything over to her name.

[Bazooka Boo]

I have been giving it a little more thought Not only is it fraud but I would argue it is Identity theft, this may be another angle to argue it from?

 

Here is a link to check your credit file for 'free!'

 

Annual Credit Report

Edited May 29, 2009 by Bazooka Boo
Link added.

[concernedmotherin law]

I know this and believe me if it were down to me I would report it

but......I can't.

I have sent a letter to them and asked for his credit report, so now it is just a matter of waiting to see what happens.

[scouemonk]

i know that it is difficult when family are concerned, but this lady has broken the law, i am not one of these holier than though people, we can all make mistakes. but there are other people in this, who if it is not sorted out will have serious problems later on in life. believe me i know i have been through this but in different circumstances. my answer to your problem would be; not my debt, not my problem. tell this to the catalogue people and let them make the decision about the way forward.

[cerberusalert]

I take it that the agreement above was unsigned by any applicant, particularly as both the company and customer copy are shown? If so it would be extremely hard to prove any fraud had taken place.

 

A hypothetical question. Is it fraud when a company inserts a customers details into a blank form & then tries to pass it off as an enforceable agreement?

[Bazooka Boo]

A hypothetical question. Is it fraud when a company inserts a customers details into a blank form & then tries to pass it off as an enforceable agreement?

 

My immediate answer was yes! But having had time to think about it........................................

 

I would argue not only 'fraud' but also 'identity theft'

And counter sink them into the ground!

[concernedmotherin law]

I want to firstly thank all of you for your help.

Nothing has happened until today when he received another letter from Reliable. (copy attached).

I checked with the Post Office Track and Trace and the letter I sent them has been returned Is this because I sent it to a P.O Box? I don't have any other address for them.

What the hell do I do now? He hasn't had a copy of his credit report back yet and I am dreading that this may not be the only debt.

Should I now get him to write to Reliable saying he has no knowledge of this debt and let them sort it out? Or do I continue to go along the lines that there is no 'True agreement'...extremely confused and angry

[welshwizard]

Try this:

 

Reliable Collections Ltd

Griffin House

40 Lever Street

Manchester

M60 6ES

 

[concernedmotherin law]

[welshwizard]

I like the way on that letter they state that there are 'serious arrears of £25.00' yet the minimum payment on the Bank Giro Credit is £30.00-methinks they have a difficulty in getting their threatomatic computer to put in the right numbers!

 

Don't ring them anymore, do everything in writing and send it recorded so you can prove they receive your letters because, believe it or not, they may lie to you and say they haven't received a letter!

[concernedmotherin law]

So, should I resend 'cerberusalert's' letter to the new address you have given me?

[cerberusalert]

Yes resend it.