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    • Yes please I think we would like to know all about it. Saying "I didn't foresee any problems so I didn't bother to…" As I say I didn't bother to look when I cross the road because I didn't think I would be run over
    • My WS as I intend to send it... any problems anyone can spot?         In the county court at Middlesbrough Claim No:  Between Vehicle Control Services Limited (Claimant) V   (Defendant) Witness Statement Introduction It is admitted that the Defendant is the registered keeper of XXnn XXX   Locus standi/bye-laws and Relevant land Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 (PoFA) allows recovery of unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle. However, the first paragraph 1 (1) (a) states that it only applies “in respect of parking of the vehicle on relevant land:”. The definition of “relevant land” is given in paragraph 3 (1) where subsection (c) excludes “any land ... on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control”.  The bus stop is not on relevant land because the public road on which that stand is on is covered by the Road Traffic Act.  Notwithstanding that the claimant claims that " the claimant has given the Defendant its contractual licence to enter the site", the claimant has not given any contractual licence whatsoever. This is a road leading to/from the airport which is covered by the Road Traffic Act.  A list of highways on the Highways act 1980 does not even exist. The defendant brings the attention of the court that VCS is using this non existent document issue as a deliberate strategy to debunk the fact that this road is not relevant land. VCS are put to strict proof that it is relevant land not covered by the Road Traffic Act nor by Byelaws. While it is true that landowners can bring in their own terms, it is also true that whatever terms they bring  cannot overrule Byelaws and the Road Traffic Act. If Bye Laws are involved then the bus stop is not relevant land and neither is the specious argument about First Great Western Ltd. Is the claimant ignorant of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012? The road outside of Doncaster Sheffield Airport is not relevant land and is not covered by the Protection of Freedoms Act. That makes the charge against the claimant tantamount to fraud or extortion. The claimant mentions a couple occasions where they have won such cases. It is brought to the attention of the court that none of those cited cases were on airport land. VCS actually has also lost a lot more cases than they have won using their prohibitive signs.  Airport land is covered by Bye Laws and hence the claim by VCS is not applicable in this instance. The remit of VCS ends in the car park and does not extend to the bus stops on public roads or land which they have no jurisdiction over. All classes of people go to the airport. This includes travellers, taxis, fuel bowsers, airport staff, companies delivering food and drink for each aircraft, air traffic controllers and buses with passengers. It is therefore absolutely ridiculous to attribute VCS with any sort of permissions. The defendant submits that VCS should not confuse a major thoroughfare with a car park and presume to act as land owners and usurp the control of any land which is not relevant to them.   Protection of Freedoms Act The clearest point on section 4.1 of the Protection of Freedoms act is that “The provisions in Schedule 4 are intended to apply only on private land in England and Wales. Public highways are excluded as well as any parking places on public land which are either provided or controlled by a local authority (or other government body). Any land which already has statutory controls in relation to the parking of vehicles (such as byelaws applying to airports, ports and some railway station car parks) is also excluded.” Therefore, as this case pertains to an airport, the claimant unlawfully obtained the registered keeper’s details against the defendant’s vehicle. Thus, on this basis alone, the defendant implores the court to throw out this case. Notwithstanding the above point, if perchance Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 were to apply, the claimant is put to strict proof that they complied with the requirements of section 7 stating, “(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met. The notice must — (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;” Without such proof the court must of necessity throw out this case forthwith.   Deceit, Intimidation and Extortion The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim include £50 legal costs, yet in the letter dated  03/06/2021, the Claimant stated that they were no longer represented by Elms Legal and all further correspondence should be sent to the VCS in-house litigation department. Why should the Claimant be asking the Defendant to contribute to their employee’s salary?  Furthermore, as per another letter dated 30th July 2021, the Claimant wrote, ‘Should you fail to accept our offer of settlement then we will proceed to Trial and bring this letter to the Court’s attention upon question of costs in order seek further costs of £220 incurred in having to instruct a local Solicitor to attend the hearing in conjunction with the amount claimed on the Claim Form.’ I find this an extraordinary statement given the Claimant knows legal costs are capped at £50 in Small Claims Court. I cannot think of any reason why the Claimant would write this letter other than to intimidate the opposing party with the threat of an extortionate sum of money, hoping they would be able to take advantage of someone not knowing the Small Claims Court rules. Given that this letter came from the Claimant’s in-house litigation department, clearly well-versed in the law, this cannot be anything but deceitful and disingenuous behaviour which the court should never tolerate.    Contractual costs / debt recovery charge  In addition to the £50 legal costs, the Claimant is seeking recovery of the original £100 parking charge plus an additional £60 which is described as ‘debt collection costs’. In the Vehicle Control Service v Claim Number: 18 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated, ‘Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates […] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court in Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law. It is hereby declared […] the claim be struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.’  In Claim number F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia v Crosby went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of White & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed the earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand stating, ‘It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedom Acts 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998…’ Vehicle Control Service v Claim Number: 19 51. Moreover, the addition of costs not specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the Civil Procedure Rules, the Beavis Case, the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 and Consumer Rights Act 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.   Alleged contract The court should consider if there is any contract to start with and if the alleged offence is on relevant land. The consideration will inevitably lead the court to conclude that there is no contract.  Also the court should note that there is no valid contract that exists between VCS and Peel. Under the Companies Act, a contract should be signed by the directors of both companies and witnessed by two independent individuals. This alleged contract, which makes no mention of pursuing registered keepers of vehicles to court, makes its first appearance as a Witness Statement. Thus the alleged contract is null and void.  The Beavis case referred to by the claimant is about parking in a car park. The claimant is here attempting to equate that case to stopping, not parking, in a bus stop and on a road that is covered by the Road Traffic Act. The defendant submits that there can be no contract as there is no offer but there is only a prohibition. Again, it is not relevant land and VCS has absolutely no rights over it. Further, the defendant would like to point out that motorists NEVER accept any contract just by entering the land. First they must read it and understand it and then, and only then can they realise that "No stopping" is prohibitive and cannot offer a contract.   Bus stop signage The signs around the bus stop do not mention who issued the “No Stopping” signs so it could not have been issued by VCS since the IPC CoP states that their signs should include the IPC logo and that the creditor should be identified. Nothing on the signs around the bus stop that says “NO Stopping” mentions VCS or Peel Investments who are now purporting to be the land owners of a public road. As the signage should identify the creditor, since it does not, this is a breach of the CoP.   The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 does not prohibit stopping in a restricted bus stop or stand, it prohibits stopping in a clearway. The defendant would like to ask the court to consider if any clause of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 that the claimant alleges has been violated by the defendant. There is no mention of permits on the signage. If there were, would it mean that Permit holders were allowed to stop on “No Stopping” roads? Notwithstanding what the claimant calls it, the mentioned signage is NOT a contractual clause. A “No stopping” sign is not an offer of parking terms.  Since the signage around the bus stop is prohibitive, it is as such is incapable of forming a contract. Further, the defendant would like to point out that the prohibitive sign is not actually at the bus stop but a few metres before the stand itself. There is no mention of a £100 charge for breaching the “No stopping” request, or if there is one then it is far too small to read, even for a pedestrian. As already stated, a Witness Statement between VCS and Peel Investments is not a valid document. It will need more than the Claimants feather to outweigh the case against the Defendant regardless of who was driving. There is no law of agency involved. This is not a case of employer/employee relationship. VCS cannot transfer the driver's liability to the registered keeper. There can be no comparison between a railway station and an airport. This is a totally fatuous analogy which cannot be applied to this case.  As stated in the defence, it is denied the Claimant is entitled to the recovery or any recovery at all. The nefarious parking charge notice given for a vehicle on a public road bus stop was ill advised to start with.   Conclusions:   VCS has failed to present ANY reasonable and valid cause to apply to the DVLA for the Defendants details. VCS has failed to provide ANY valid  contract with the landowners. “No stopping” is prohibitive therefore cannot form a contract the event happened on a bus stop over which VCS has no jurisdiction the signage either does not show that there was a charge of £100 for stopping, or the font size was too small for any motorist to be able to read it  the signage does not show the Creditor which fails the IPC CoP and hence the signage is not valid the WS contract does not authorise VCS to pursue motorists to Court Given all these factors it seems that VCS have breached the GDPR of the Defendant quite substantially and it would appear right that an exemplary award is made against VCS in the hope that they will drop all further cases at Doncaster airport where they are pursuing motorists on non relevant land. The Defendant wishes to bring to the attention of the court that the Claimant cites an irrelevant case of a car park and tries to apply its merits to a bus stop. That in itself invalidates the entire fallacious claim. Accordingly, this case is totally without merit. Some statements are pretty close to perjury and others are designed to mislead or misdirect. None of the analogies seem appropriate or relevant. All the false information presented as a statement of truth could have been stated using half the words and without all the repetition which appears to be trying to build a strong case where there is none at all. One particularly bad example of misdirection is in the photographs. The Clearway sign shown near the bus stop is very unclear unlike the Clearway sign two photos before it which may well include terms and conditions. The one by the bus stop is totally different.   47. Lastly I wish to bring to the attention of the court, a systematic pattern of the Claimant’s court action behaviour in several of their cases. They tend to have a VCS paralegal writing a Witness Statement, then mentioning in the last paragraph of the Witness Statement that they may be unable to attend court and subsequently the paralegals never turn up to be cross examined. In the event that Mohammed Wali is unable to attend court to be asked about his claims, then I would like to know why he is not able to attend when the hearing has been scheduled months in advance, is during working hours and as a result of covid, is online, meaning there is no travel involved. Ambreen Arshad, the other paralegal employed by VCS, does exactly the same. 
    • Hang on. don't panic!   You sent the snotty letter which has told the fleecers to put up or shut up.  So far they've haven't taken you to court.  This might change, but so far you're in the driving seat.  You don't have to deal with them any more.  It's up to them if they have the gonads to start court action or not.   Regarding DCBL, they are not representing their client in the normal way that a solicitor represents a client, because the sums of money involved are too low for that.  They are just chucked a few quid to send a couple of "threatening" letters.  There is no point in dealing with them.   If you want the original PCN send a SAR to UKPCM only.  For the SAR letter simply click on "SAR".   However, the SAR has nothing to do with the 30 days, you've already dealt with that with the snotty letter.  You need to read lots of similar threads and familiarise yourself with the legal process.  CAG is a superb free library.    
    • Hi again, so I will send a SAR to UKPC because I don't remember seeing the  NTK.  Then should I let DCBL know otherwise they will probably issue the court papers but they might hold off if i tell them about the SAR?   what do you think?  I need to do it this weekend or it will be beyond the 30 days.  Otherwise to let it run will definitely lead to a court case perhaps??   Can I get a copy of a SAR letter on here? thanks
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How to proceed when correct data supplied via CCA


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This thread is an offshoot of my one on DCA's but deals with how to proceed when your creditor finally, after much prevarication and searching, supplies you with the correct agreement with the PTS and terms on same document.

 

I have received such and am curious now how to proceed, as the debt is now enforceable again. What is the action, now, from the DCA/bank, and how do I protect myself from the launching an attempt at full recovery?

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hi. received a letter from Marlin financial services telling me that my debt to Yorkshire has now been passed to them. if I dont contact them I should expect enforcment action and one of their 'feild agents' may call on me. As first contact, should I reply in writing requesting a CCA ? as telephoning just leaves you open to bullying and more telephone calls. Any advice on dealing with these bloodsuckers would be appreciated. Cheers

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hi. received a letter from Marlin financial services telling me that my debt to Yorkshire has now been passed to them. if I dont contact them I should expect enforcment action and one of their 'feild agents' may call on me. As first contact, should I reply in writing requesting a CCA ? as telephoning just leaves you open to bullying and more telephone calls. Any advice on dealing with these bloodsuckers would be appreciated. Cheers

 

Do not speak to them on the phone: they will only harass and intimidate you into paying more than you can afford! Insist all corresp is dealt with by letter and tell them that if the persist in contacting you at home (log the calls) write to them stating that this behaviour constitutes harassment under ss1&2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Tell them your first stop will be the police and make sure you tell them thatyou will name the person speaking/writing to yo.

 

Secondly, yes, CCA them , first.

Edited by FlyboyAgain
incorrect data
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It is important to keep abreast of what's happening and not to ignore correspondence. Also, they cannot call at your home without you inviting them ! Do not agree to such a visit under any terms! They have no right.

 

Search around here with regard to that. The main thing is that you need to take control and not be frightened of them any longer. They have reaped the whirlwind.

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thanks for your replies, good to know that I'm doing the correct thing.

Which section do I quote for a credit card ??

 

New to this and dont want them to take advantage of me being a bit green on the subject. CHEERS

Edited by no-angel
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Request under section 78(1) for cards. They have 12(+2) days to reply to this. If they don't, the account is said to be in dispute. You can withhold payment if you wish or continue to pay. Best if you see my thread here:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/188216-dca-heavy-handed-over-3.html

 

It's still active but I have received an invaluable amount of assistance from the site team and forumites and I'm happy to help as much as I can.

Edited by FlyboyAgain
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will write a letter today (UNSIGNED) with a £1 postal order and send it recorded delivery. see what happens ??

Thankyou Flyboyagain, didnt expect to get a reply so soon, cant tell you how much better I feel. will let you know how i go on. bye

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Hi Fly,

 

Here is a list of template letters you can use to negotiate repayments. if it's the original crediot or inhouse and they are adding interest etc there is a ltter asking them to freeze it. if it's a dca then nothing shoul dbe applied. I would always suggest to make up your own i and e and whme making your offer of payment include the first payment and kepp paying to your schedule if they accept or not.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

ida x

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as long as you make the payments you have proposed and on your time schedule then to be homest they will leave you alone exept for them trying to increase them as if they did take it further the courts are none too happy with them as you would already be paying what they would consider or they might consider less.

 

result on the cards :D

 

ida x

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Fly, just thought I'd let you know that I sent CCA request letter to Marlin via special delivery. They received it on the 30th May '09, I've got a print out of the signature to prove it. Received a 'REMINDER' letter yesterday, dated 5th June '09. It says ' we note from our records that you have not responded in respect to our previous communications regarding the above debt '.

Clearly I have, I have the Postal Order number receipt also.

Do you think they are trying it on, hoping that I'm actually going to call them ? Do you think I should ignore this letter as I've all the proof that I sent and they received my CCA ? If they received my CCA on the 30th , is it 12 working days +2 ? Will the 25th put them in default of my request? And if so , should I send them a letter stating thisafter the 25th ?

I know i've asked alot of questions but your reply will be v.much appreciated. Cheers, No Angel.:confused:

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as long as you make the payments you have proposed and on your time schedule then to be homest they will leave you alone exept for them trying to increase them as if they did take it further the courts are none too happy with them as you would already be paying what they would consider or they might consider less.

 

result on the cards :D

 

ida x

 

Yes, Ida, that seems to be the case, after speaking to the bank, yesterday. Suprisingly, the bank has no record of my letter of 1 June thanking (!) them for supplying the correct agreement, copied also to the DCA who appear to be pressing for litiagtion, even though I've reinstated the payment schedule. What an odd bunch.

 

Y'know, these people don't bother me anywhere near what they did at the begining of this year. It's amazing how this forum (and the people on it) and a bit of knowledge about how acts work and should be interperated can boost your confidence and let YOU gain control!

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Hi Fly, just thought I'd let you know that I sent CCA request letter to Marlin via special delivery. They received it on the 30th May '09, I've got a print out of the signature to prove it. Received a 'REMINDER' letter yesterday, dated 5th June '09. It says ' we note from our records that you have not responded in respect to our previous communications regarding the above debt '.

Clearly I have, I have the Postal Order number receipt also.

Do you think they are trying it on, hoping that I'm actually going to call them ? Do you think I should ignore this letter as I've all the proof that I sent and they received my CCA ? If they received my CCA on the 30th , is it 12 working days +2 ? Will the 25th put them in default of my request? And if so , should I send them a letter stating thisafter the 25th ?

I know i've asked alot of questions but your reply will be v.much appreciated. Cheers, No Angel.:confused:

 

Angel, yeh, I have had the same with my monkeys in the past. They're trying to scare you. If they or their client haven't sent the correct documentation (or not managed a reply) then you must write to them stating account in dispute. Wait the full 14 days and send your 'in dispute' letter ON that day; that's what I did. Remember: they are only trying to scare you. Watch out for them lying about not having received you CCA request! Copy your 'in dispute' lettter to your OC, the bank.

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What I am finding now is that the bank (ex bank, or course!) has started to get involved again. I'm pleased about this, to a degree, because they have let the cat out the bag and inadvertantly exposed DCA lies and misdemeanours. However, they have become all nicey-nice over the phone after years of agressive and condescending phone calls and I know why: they are so sh** scared of losing their money that they're now trying the softly-softly approach, appearing now to being a 'caring' bank! And for every account my wife and I have in dispute with them they have sent a 'keen to resolve concerns' letter. What can this portend for them? They get nixi, that's what!

 

I've reinstated the accounts that have been shown to be correctly set out, as per pre-2004. As for the others, i'll wait for the fat lady to sing. And no amount of fluffy, cuddly HBOS letters and soooothing telephone manner is going to fool me into thinking that I'm not dealing with one of the biggest corporate monsters on the planet!

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Thanks for the support guys. Will let you know whether they decide to acknowledge my CCA, or just pretend they've not received it. Will file this 'REMINDER' under SPEW!! Will send the default letter on the 15th, do you think that I should put a photocopy of the Postal order receipt for £1.00, which has their name printed on it + the special delivery receiving signature in with the default to prove i sent it? Once they default and if they continue to send letters, can i do something about harassment?

Cheers

P.S should I ask for my £1.oo back because they've not used it for the purpose intended ?

Edited by no-angel
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Hi Fly, they've sent a letter,saying they receivedmy CCA on the 4th June 09. I know they signed for it on the 30th May. Do I still send the default letter on the 15th, today ? Cheers

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You go by the date of your letter. I got whining, weeping excuses that CCA letters sometimes 'slip the net' (??) and can also go unaswered for more than two weeks! That's not our concern! As long as it's 12+2 days they've gone beyond. And I presume you've check today's mail? If you have, and the documents are not there with you, send your 'in dispute' letter.

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Did you ever, as a kid, catch a bully on his/her own and dish out to them what they did to you? Well, this is how it feels with me and my DCA/Bank. Wow, is that bank nice-nicey to me now, even though I'm no longer with them. The DCA are still arrogant, as I suspect yours is. Do Not be frightened by them: they are toothless old dogs who can do nothing but drag you to court! Stick to learning here how to fight them and when you learn like I have done, help others as others here have helped you.

Edited by FlyboyAgain
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