Power of Attorney/Dementia

[empowered]

Need some help here please. My dad (82) is caring for my mother (83) who is now totally wheelchairbound due to osteoporosis and has bad dementia and needs constanting lifting out of her chair to go the loo - it is crucifying him. GP sent in night nurse and morning nurse for 3 days this weekend to give dad a rest. GP says mum MUST now go into a home however, no one seems to know how long the waiting list is. Two weeks ago dad tried to get mum to sign power of attorney but she refused saying she was OK. Since another fall, she is totally gone, falling asleep all the time and we don't know how to get to her sign the power of attorney. Does SHE have to sign it, or can the bank/GP provide statements as to her mental health? What happens in these circumstances?

Many thanks

[hammyhound]

Dont quote on this as someone more experienced might be able to help, but we were in the same position a few years back and were informed by a solicitor that to sign a Power of Attorney a person needs to be of "sound mind". I don't know if that helps at all but I suspect that this is the same in your case. As far as I know a doctor has to produce a certificate to prove that your mum is not mentally incapacitated.

 

Some extracts if that is any help.

 

You can make an EPA if you already have a diagnosis of dementia but you must be able to show that you understand what is the effect of what you are signing. Get a doctor’s certificate if there is any doubt about your capacity to understand. You can also revoke an EPA, but only while you are still considered to be mentally capable

 

Someone needs help – they do not have a PoA

If someone who is already mentally incapacitated has not created an EPoA, and you wish to manage their financial affairs, you will need to apply to the Court of Protection (Office of Care and Protection in Northern Ireland), to be appointed as a receiver (or a controller in Northern Ireland). You should contact the Public Guardianship Office (PGO) (Office of Care and Protection in Northern Ireland), who will send you the relevant forms and information on how to apply, including details of fees. This is more bureaucratic an cumbersome for you than to act under a EPoA, so do try that route before applying to the Court of Protection

If the Court of Protection appoints you as a receiver (controller in Northern Ireland), you will take control of the person's financial affairs and property and act on their behalf. You will be required to open a bank account in your own name, and you will need the Court's permission before making any decisions about capital, such as the incapacitated person's home or other property. You will usually be required to present yearly accounts of the person's finances.

 

In certain cases, where the incapacitated person's assets are valued at less than £16,000, you can usually apply to the Public Guardianship Office (PGO) (Office of Care and Protection in Northern Ireland), for directions that, if granted, mean that the Court of Protection (Office of Care and Protection in Northern Ireland), does not need to appoint a receiver (controller in Northern Ireland). This is a less formal arrangement, in order to decide whether directions would be appropriate. Contact the PGO or Office of Care and Protection in Northern Ireland, for further details and the appropriate forms.

 

[empowered]

Thanks for that HH - she has moments of lucidity when she says she doesn't need to sign PoA but dad says she is making horrible financial mistakes. I've since done some more research and have discovered the Court of Protection etc and dad is going into the bank tomorrow to see how to tackle this - a nightmare:(

[hammyhound]

Keep us informed but something tells me that if she is at the stage where financial mistakes are being made signing a POA might be too late.

 

On a lighter note at the start of my gran's dementia my gran put the electrical kettle on the gas stove to heat the water to make a cup of tea for the GP - bad move, he says she was incapable of looking after herself and should go in a home, we all laugh about it now and has become a family joke but at the time felt so sorry for her. I put a teatowel in the microwave the other day before OH asked "what was that smell". I meant to put the food in instead so maybe I should get a POA myself:D

 

Keep us updated anyway.

 

HH

[empowered]

Hi HH

Quick update - spoke to a marvellous lady at Outreach (part of Alzheimers Society) who has agreed that mum is past the point of PoA and the route will have to be Court of Protection. She has given me names of solicitors who deal with elderly people and a raft of other info - my head is no longer spinning now and she has already blown Social Services out of the water for not giving dad enough help! Will keep you updated.

[Bookworm]

Good to hear.

 

Take care of yourself. My mum went through phases of dementia while dying of cancer and my stepdad was left completely on his own to deal with her, with my elder sister travelling 100 miles per trip to help 4 to 5 times a week, on top of her FT job. I'm glad you've found support, it will help you through the hard times.

 

{{{HUGS}}}

[empowered]

Thanks Bookie - this forum has been absolutely brilliant so far with ideas and support - it nice to know we are not floundering in the dark so much:) Off to see parents this afternoon - should be fun:p

[empowered]

God, I'm upset. Went to my parents home yesterday and GP called and agreed mum needed urgent attention due to fact she has now not gone to the loo (bowel) for nearly 14 days. He called ambulance to take her to the local Cottage Hospital (supposedly good reputation) Dad went to see her this afternoon and she is in an empty ward which is being redecorated - all the beds pushed into the middle. She was sitting in her vest and trying to put her sweater on - this is a woman who has nearly every bone in her body mis-shapen or broken due to osteoporosis. Mum needs to go to loo and nurses give her walking frame - she CANNOT stand - dad insists on a wheelchair and once she has finished in loo, they insist that she stand because of 'elf and safety' they must look after their backs and are not allowed to lift her!!!! She cannot eat without assistance and her drinks are put on the high locker beside her bed - she cannot even turn to pick them up. She accused dad of letting her die in this place. He is absolutely heart broken - he says she looks like a caged animal and so broken. My sister went to the adjoining surgery to leave a message for GP who had originally agreed that suppositories would be given to mum in hospital - apparently the nurses know nothing about this. I can see this one hitting the press:-( If we can get her system back to normal, dad is so determined to continue looking after her at home with SS help. Rant over

[ErikaPNP]

They are not allowed to lift, it is in fact illegal - not only could they cause significant damage their spines but if they lift a patient, they could also cause damage to the patient. Especially lifting the way many old school nurses do, they could dislocate your mum's shoulder, or worse if she has osteoporosis.

 

BUT they SHOULD have sufficient training in the manual handling of patients who are unable to stand independently. There are all sorts of aids they could, and damned well should be using to assist your mum in movement. There are turning disks, sliding sheets, handling belts, etc.

 

If mum is completely unable of bearning any weight then they should be using a hoist.

 

It does sound as if the care is severely lacking. Has your dad asked to see her care plan? When a patient is admitted, they must begin a written plan of care in accordance to that patient's needs, based upon the patients medical notes if they are available. If mum is immobile, then there must be a plan in place for this. If mum is unable to eat/drink independently, again a written plan is a requirement.

[empowered]

Erika - thank you so very much for this advice:) Dad is going in this afternoon armed with a list of questions:p

[ErikaPNP]

No problem.

[caro]

How's it going empowered? My Mum had osteoporosis and osteoarthritis and was in a cottage hospital last year which seemed like the pits. I bawled my eyes out the day I left her there. One advantage is that there is less likelihood of picking up bugs like MRSA in this type of place, and at least your dad is getting a break of sorts.

 

You will need to be very persistent and make sure that if things aren't to your satisfaction in the hospital you tell them every time. I was always nice about what was required but wouldn't be fobbed off. My mum would worry that if I made a fuss the staff may take it out on her when I wasn't around, but I was always careful to be nice when asking for something to get them on side. Some of them still hated me though, but that didn't matter as long as Mum was ok.

 

To be fair to the staff, you may find that they're doing their best in difficult circumstances.

 

It's so hard when it's your mum and you just want what's best for her. I know I often felt nothing was ever good enough for my mum, but in reality there were some dedicated and caring people who did the best they could.

 

You need to get the hospital social worker involved to look at your mum's long term future. No doubt the bed will be required anyway before long, but you need an assessment of your mum's needs so that you can start looking for somewhere suitable for your Mum, either in the short or long term.

[empowered]

Thanks for your kind comments Caro:) I have to say now that we cannot fault the treatment - they are using a hoist in the loo and bedwashing her and the rooms are spotless. They have finally sorted out the bowel problem but she is totally reliant on everybody helping her. She does'nt even remember me visiting on Sunday. However the care manager originally on the case has been removed due to GP and Outreach complaints and new one appointed. Supposedly meeting with my dad and sister today to discuss ongoing care but this was before anyone knew that she fell and fainted in the loo yesterday (nurse in attendance). She has low blood pressure and a urinary infection but heart strong and breathing OK. Docs think she may have hit her head when she last fell two weeks ago at home and are possibly going to do CT Scan at Bognor Hospital. So it is difficult to get any kind of definitive care assessment done yet as she seems to be changing on a daily basis. Taking in some poetry to read to her tomorrow - she can still remember her poems and hymns from yonks ago but nothing from a minute ago:D

[patrickq1]

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