Bristow and Suitor excess fee's

[chyrophase]

Right where to begin?

 

22/12/2008

received letter from bristows "notification prior to sale of goods" demanding £235.39 by 29/12/2008

 

phoned said bailiff to ask "what goods" only to be informed that the charge had been levied on my car.

i agreed to pay via installments @ £40 per month.

20 mins later a letter is pushed through the door which turned out to be a form levying on my car.(very shady imo)

 

paid in full by 6/5/2009 have receipts totalling £235.39.

 

contacted today via bristow stating i had missed a payment 30/12/2008. having shown the monkey at the door the receipts he agreed and said he would put a note on my file and to contact the office. this i did and after 49 mins of greensleeves i was told the payment had been found in a holding acc with no reference number attached.

1 hr 15 mins later i get a new letter through the door adding charges for another visit. my question is Why should i pay for thier poor admin?

Is there anything i can do to dispute these extra charges?

Are there any template letters to demand a full breakdown of charges and payments made?

 

thanks in advance

 

mark.

[hallowitch]

was there a form 7 put through you letter box for the car levy

pay them no more money you owe them nothing

a letter to bristow& suitor asking for a screeenshot of your account send it recorded delivery give them 14 to send

make them aware if you do not receive this in 14 you will be filing a form 4 complaint to the court

also send letter to the council telling them you have asked for screenshot

the council are responsible for bailiffs actions and overpayment's as they act as agents for council

[Payback1]

afternoon chyrophase

 

Another person having problems with B&S - glad to know im not alone.

 

Interesting to note how one of your payments was put into holding account - do you mind me asking how you made the payments.

 

Ive paid them £810 so far, cheques made payable to the Council, but B&S have cashed every single one but not passed the monies on - and keep demanding more money from them.

 

Dont pay em another bean! Their mistake I believe lolol

[hallowitch]

sorry wanted to ask what date was on the form 7 not did you get one

[chyrophase]

Date on the form 7 was 20/12/2008 two days before i received it.

I have made all payments directly into thier acc via cash at a local barcalys.

they provided the account number and the sort code and ALL my receipts have the branch stamp over the reference number they told me to put on.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

i agreed to pay via installments @ £40 per month.

20 mins later a letter is pushed through the door which turned out to be a form levying on my car.(very shady imo)

 

Is there anything i can do to dispute these extra charges?

 

The bailiff appears to have levied on your goods retrospectively after you started paying installments. You have a right to make an official complaint against the bailiff and ask for your money back.

 

Phone the bailiff on his mobile and ask him for the name of the court that issied his bailiffs certificate and quickly end the call. If he refuses to disclose it then phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate. Download the complaint form http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing supporting evidence such as the bailiffs document showing the bailiffs fees and any amounts paid.

 

The key points are on the complaint form are:

 

i) The bailiff levied on your car retrospectively

ii) The bailiff pushed a document through your letterbox 20 minutes after you spoke to him by phone

iii) You have tried to resolve the matter with the bailiff and his firm but you have been fobbed off with excuses.

iv) You have signed no documents and have not agreed to any walking possessions agreements.

v) The fees the bailiff is charging you do not comply with legtislation and are contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

Are there any template letters to demand a full breakdown of charges and payments made?

 

This one, but you have already given the bailiff an opportunity to put things right. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/196471-urgent-help-equita-regarding.html#post2175065

 

Your post doesn't say what type of debt, but you named Bristow & Sutor as the bailiffs so it means we are dealing with a parking ticket or unpaid council tax.

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and Amendment 5(3) of the Council Tax and Non-Domestic Rating (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2006 provides £24.00 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit if one is made. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

Parking tickets is Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993. Broadly its £11.20 for a letter and upto 28% depending on the amount collected.

[Payback1]

Chyrophase

 

Sorry, forgive me for being a bit dim - you paid B&S into 'their' account, not into a holding account for the Council concerned (which B&S have opened).

 

Mmmmm, am still trying to figure out if B&S have acted 'fraudulently' in my case - cashing of cheques not made payable to them.

 

Someone has cashed them but I cant get a straight answer - no one will admit liability.

[chyrophase]

the account i paid into was "Bristow and Suitor Clients account number 3"

Do i need to pay b&s while i file forms as they have levied on my car and i dont want to wake up to find a clamp on it or worse to find it gone?

[chyrophase]

update to above...

I have now paid the original demand for £235.39 and requested a screen shot of my account the following was sent to me via email.

 

Transactions:

Date:

Total:

Fees:

Client:

Description:

141.39

0.00

141.39

Opening Balance

07/11/08

24.50

CR

24.50

CR

0.00

A.T.L. Fee (First Visit): 10/11/08

07/11/08

18.00

CR

18.00

CR

0.00

A.T.L. Fee (Second Visit): 10/11/08

08/12/08

27.00

CR

27.00

CR

0.00

Levy Fee: 10/12/08

08/12/08

24.50

CR

24.50

CR

0.00

Redemption Fee (Head H): 10/12/08

30/12/08

15.39

15.39

0.00

Claimed Unref S.O. Payment: 17/12/08

15/01/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

29/01/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

30/01/09

180.00

CR

180.00

CR

0.00

Van/Abortive Removal Fees: 30/01/09

10/02/09

15.56

0.00

15.56

Reduction to Client Balance: 10/02/09

12/02/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

13/02/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Claimed Unref S.O. Payment: 30/12/08

27/02/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

11/03/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

26/03/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

14/04/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

23/04/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

07/05/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

21/05/09

20.00

20.00

0.00

Payment by Standing Order

164.44

38.61

125.83

Current Balance

 

i have paid nothing by standing order and there are payments missing from that (i have receipts) although i note from the above post that they can only charge £24.50 first visit fee and £18.00 for the second visit. What is the £180 fee for as i have never signed anything and they have never removed any goods?

[hallowitch]

for a kick of they cant have 2 visit fees on same day 10/11/08

Opening Balance

07/11/08

24.50 ? whats that for ? i would question that

CR

24.50

CR

0.00

 

A.T.L. Fee (First Visit): 10/11/08

07/11/08

18.00

CR

18.00

CR

0.00

 

A.T.L. Fee (Second Visit): 10/11/08

08/12/08

[chyrophase]

Hmm i never noticed that but will certainly keep the copy i have for reference. thing is what to do now? any advice?

[hallowitch]

Re: Bristow and Suitor excess fee's if you can add (bailiffs screen shot on thread help) or somthing like that

 

hopefully tomtubby will notice it and reply

he has no PM. facility on his account so you cant send him a message

 

don't know what else to suggest

 

it would be a lot easier if it had been put like this

 

1st visit £

2nd visit £

walking possession fee £

levy fee £ you could understand it better

 

this is just a thought but

i wonder what you would get back if you asked the council for a screen shot of your council tax arrears account after all you have payments missing you want to see what the council have

[chyrophase]

Maybe this will be a bit clearer i note that first and second visit fee's are dated the same day :s

 

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll244/Chyrophase/newstatement.jpg

Edited May 30, 2009 by chyrophase

[chyrophase]

Ok update time...I wrote to B&S challenging them on a few points, I have never defaulted and that I have signed no documents and have not agreed to any walking possessions agreements.

and that the fees the bailiff is charging you do not comply with legtislation and are contrary to Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

I also sent a copy of my agreement from them and all receipts showing dates and account numbers proving i paid on time and fulfilled the original balance of £235.15p.

 

I received a letter back today as shown below, Any advice appreciated as i have never defaulted on the original agreement and have all receipts to prove it.

 

 

Mr *** ******

*********

********

**** ******

**** ***

 

Dear Sir,

 

RE: Council Tax arrears due to *** **** **** Council

 

We acknoledge receipt of your letter, the contents of which have been duly noted.

 

Firstly we would like to advise that all the receipts for payments you have enclosed copies of, have already been allocated to your account. We would like to point out that the agreement letter that you have enclosed is dated 11th December 2008, which was sent prior to our ailiff visits on the 30th January 2009 and 12th February 2009 when additional costs had been incurred. These visits took place due to a default on the agreement that was in force.

 

We would like to refer you to the council tax (administration & Enforcment) Regulations 1992 (as Amended) as all our fees are charged within these Regulations, We do not need to remove goods from your property to charge fees after a first and second visit fee is added.

 

We can confirm that you are not due a refubd on the account and a balance still remains outstanding of £164.44. We have recently offered you an agreement via instalments which was due to commence on 3rd june 2009 of £20.00 per fortnight.

 

We can confirm the following bailiff visits which were made to your property and the bailiffs which attended. All ceretificates are granted at Redditch County Court and are then signed by a Judge at Worcester County Court.

 

Date of visit Name of Bailiff

07.11.08 K Brueton (attended on two occasions)

20.11.08 N Mahmood

08.12.08 D Bailey

30.01.09 S Rhodes

12.02.09 J Newnes

 

We would like to advise that our bailiffs do not need to be invited to your property as we are enforcing a Liability Order by a legal process.

 

Failure to make payments as per the agreement detailed above will result in further recovery action being taken against you.

 

We trust this clarifies the situation.

 

Yours faithfully,

B&S (signed in ink)

 

Bristow & Sutor

 

 

 

As i stated above i have never defaulted and when the bailiffs visited i showed my receipts and they went away.....PLEASE HELP!!!!!

[hallowitch]

i was told the payment had been found in a holding acc with no reference number attached

 

 

found this hope it helps get in touch with the council make an official complaint

 

 

Provision of Bailiff Services 2007 - 2010

 

Details of Work Required

 

 

 

•

a separate bank account for clients monies

•

a suspense account which records all payments received which cannot

be immediately credited to the account of a particular debtor. There

must be robust procedures in place to ensure that such payments are

promptly and appropriately credited to the correct debtor. The

contractor must provide reports regarding clearance of its income

suspense account when requested by the Council.

[chyrophase]

Thanks Hallowitch but im not sure how that helps i know it points out the flaws in B&S systems, but i need to know what to do now i have never defaulted on the original agreement so the added visits and fees should not be chargable should they?

[hallowitch]

Thanks Hallowitch but im not sure how that helps i know it points out the flaws in B&S systems, but i need to know what to do now i have never defaulted on the original agreement so the added visits and fees should not be chargable should they?

 

official complaint to the council then a form 4 complaint court

 

There must be robust procedures in place to ensure that such payments are promptly and appropriately credited to the correct debtor.

 

in your case this didn't happen you are not reasonable for administration errors of your payment after it arrives at B&S

[Guest Happy Contrails]

I'll echo hallowich. Form 4 is the way to go when dealing with bailiff fraud. The jpg statement shows the bailiff has been embezzling money belonging to the authority, this is called Breach of Trust and is a criminal offence under Section 4 of the Fraud Act. You might want to consider filing a complaint to local police.

 

The Chief Constable

Name of Police Authority

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Reporting a crime committed under the Fraud Act 2006

 

I enclose a document given to me by a man saying he is a bailiff firm and he is charging me fees that are not compliant to legislation and engaged in enbezzlent of money placed in his trust.

 

I write to you understanding that a person who is trying to con me out of money in this way commits an offence under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 because it is classed as Fraud by false representation and abuse of position.

 

Please assign a crime reference number and I ask the matter is investigated professionally and objectively and I am happy to help you in your enquiries.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

YOUR NAME

Enc: copy of document

 

Police sometimes say bailiff crime is a civil matter, if so, send this letter to the IPCC.

 

The Independent Police Complaints Commission

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Complaint of improper conduct by Police Officers

 

I enclose a copy of a letter I sent to Police reporting a bailiff for offences under the Fraud Act 2006.

 

The police responded by saying [there is sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution/it is a civil matter/it does not fit the criteria to be considered for criminal prosecution/they could not get involved/other] and took no action.

 

I understand the police have made a factual error in their interpretation of the law and I ask that the criminal element of this matter is fully investigated objectively and professionally.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

 

YOUR NAME

Cc: [NAME OF MP] Member of Parliament

[chyrophase]

Right sent this to bailiffs on 15/06/2009...

Mr ****

**** Road,

***,

***,

***.

 

 

Ref :*******

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 05.06.2009 in which you state : We would like to point out that the agreement letter that you have enclosed is dated 11th December 2008, which was sent prior to our bailiff visits on the 30th January 2009 and 12th February 2009 when additional costs had been incurred. These visits took place due to a default on the agreement that was in force.

 

 

As you can clearly see from the receipts I sent I have NEVER defaulted on this agreement and I draw your attention to the following:

 

 

Provision of Bailiff Services 2007 - 2010

 

Details of Work Required

 

a separate bank account for clients monies

•

a suspense account which records all payments received which cannot

be immediately credited to the account of a particular debtor. There

must be robust procedures in place to ensure that such payments are

promptly and appropriately credited to the correct debtor. The

contractor must provide reports regarding clearance of its income

suspense account when requested by the Council.

 

 

“There must be robust procedures in place to ensure that such payments are promptly and appropriately credited to the correct debtor.“

 

In my case this didn't happen and I am not responsible for administration errors of my payment after it arrives at B&S. As such a default never occurred and no further charges can be added for visits in respect of this.

 

 

I hope this clears any confusion and will deem this matter resolved upon receipt of your cheque to me consisting of your unlawful charges already paid by myself.

 

 

Yours

 

 

 

 

*******

 

 

 

Received a letter from them as shown below on 18/06/2009...

 

 

Mr *******

****

****

****

 

 

Ref: *****

 

 

 

 

NOTIFICATION PRIOR TO SALE OF GOODS

 

RE: council tax due to:-

*******

reference ****

Take notice that we have now instructed auctioneers to advertise your goods, which are subject to distraint, for sale by public auction.

 

Our bailiffs have therefore been instructed to attend your address to effect their removal. YOU WILL BE LIABLE TO PAY THE ADDITIONAL COSTS INCURRED.

 

To avoid the bailiffs attendance you must pay to us the sum of £164.44 by 23/06/09.

 

Payments must be made direct to ourselves in cash, postal orders, or by bankers draft. Cheques are also acceptable except where payment of a previous cheque sent to us, by you has not been met by your bank.

 

Payment can also be made by Credit or Debit card by telephoning our office on the above number. (note: All card payments are subject to a surcharge). You may find that, depending on the size of the payment, this is less than the cost of buying postal orders.

 

A receipt will only be issued if you send a stamped addressed envelope with your payment. Your reference number is : ***** . This must be included with your payment and written clearly on any letters you send us.

 

Dated this 16th DAY OF JUNE 2009

 

B&S

 

BRISTOW AND SUTOR

 

 

looks like they have ignored the letter i sent, now what can i do to stop these assholes bagdering me for money i do not owe? i sent all copies of letters to the council but im unsure on the form 4 complaints route, as it asks for name of bailiff, i have 5 names what do i complain about and which one of them? they are being sent by b&s and go away when shown receipts to prove i never defaulted.

[hallowitch]

i had missed a payment 30/12/2008

 

phone your bank and ask them what date the payment to BRISTOW AND SUTOR was sent /taken by them and get the transaction number

[chyrophase]

I paid in cash at the bank and have the receipt for the 30/12/09 stamped with the branch stamp and date including the account number paid into.

[hallowitch]

the bank should still be able to tell you when this payment reached Bristow and Suitor account and if there was any problem with the payment

 

if i was you i would file a form 4 complaint

[chyrophase]

As i said which bailiff would i file a form 4 against i have 5 names?

[hallowitch]

is there a bailiffs name on the walking possession agreement

[chyrophase]

I have never had a walking possession form from a bailiff but due to the date they state a levy fee i have the name of the bailiff that attended on that date.