Halifax CCA request.Sent term & cond only!

[Gimme Money]

Hi There, I Hope you can advise me what to do now with a CCA challenge against Halifax for a credit card agreement.

 

I am currently making them reduced payments and they have frozen the interest, Halifax sent me a defaulted on 19/01/09 which I was hoping to avoid!

 

In December 08 I used 'Oasis' Claims Company to challenge this loan agreement with Halifax. Oasis were charging no fees, but have now pulled out of the CCA aspect of their business, their clients me included have been sent all the correspondence. So, I am hoping that I can deal with it myself as I cannot afford to pay fees to any other claims company. I assume that I can take over the claim as Oasis were just 'representing' me.

 

They originally wrote to Halifax on 06/12/08 requesting a true copy of my CCA. They seem to have done it correctly and sent my 1.00 pound cheque. Halifax did not respond. They were written to again 19/01/09 (same day they defaulted me) and were threatened with action after 12 days. There response was received on 03/02/09, being several pages of terms & conditions but no CCA. On 10/02/09 I received a further letter saying that they are not required to provide a signed CCA.

 

Can you advise me what to do next? Are they also in default and if so should I stop paying them while there is a dispute?

 

Thanks. Gimme Money

[WelshMam2009]

This was the letter I was advised to send. You can advise them that the account is in dispute due to their default (add this to the heading). I stated that I was not going to make any further payments whilst this situation continued but that is up to you and what you hope to achieve.

 

I also took out the bit about the declaration of rights and CPR as I knew that I wasn't going to go there and didn't want to make idle threats. Also, such claims appear to be stayed at the moment anyway.

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

 

In either case, please confirm that you have, in your possession, a credit agreement that is in all ways fully compliant with the Consumer Credit At 1974, as amended, and the subsequent regulations made there under.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, if you are in possession of such a document, but are unable to supply me with a true copy of it, please outline your reasons why you are unable to supply it to me in your reply.

 

Further more, I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as I have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed I would be entitled to ask the Court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement. (s.142(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974)

 

I must stress this part of my request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore an unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by XXX

[Gimme Money]

Hi Welshman,

 

Halifax took over a month to reply and just said ''Due to the timescales that have elapsed. I am obliged to advise you of your rights to refer this to the FOS'' Thats about it, a bit odd I must say!

 

Any advise what to do next, anyone?

 

Thanks GM

[Gimme Money]

Can anyone give me some advise.

 

I have send the CRP request using a template from the welshman. I had a response on 01/07/09 from Halifax RBS telling me that they have complied, and sent me a copy of the application form. Also advising that this is their final response.

 

So, I have now complained to FOS, complained to my Local Trading Standards, (I have a meeting with them on 16/07/09) will post outcome later and have emailled my MP & AM (I live in Wales)

 

I'm quite happy to take this all the way to court, but I want to do it correctly. The debt is under 3K so should I put it through the small claims court?

 

I guess the next stage is sending a LETTER BEFORE ACTION using the CPR rules. I've spent hours reading various posts, there are some templates on the site, but I'm a bit unsure about my specific case, so can anyone suggest a letter for me to send?

 

They have defaulted me; I am on reduced payments & no interest.

 

1/ I want to threaten court action for disclosure (CCA agreement) but what do I quote?

2/ I want to advise them that I believe they don't have a enforceable agreement.

3/ I want to tell them to stop processing my data.

4/ Steve 4064 pointed out: that if a lender send the terms & conditions and application form then under the CCA rules the account is NOT in dispute. They have complied, but the agreement is unenforceable as they have not produced an enforceable agreement that has all the prescribed terms etc.

 

All a bit complicated for a non legal brain!

 

Hope you guys can help GM

[Gimme Money]

Hi,

Following a 2nd CRP request to Halifax I received what they are calling a 'credit agreement' I hope someone can take a look at this and tell me what they think. Here it is: There are no prescibed terms, only the 'right to cancel, but there is an agreement part for them to process my data and I did seem to have signed it:

 

 

This is the application form they sent a while ago, together with pages of terms & conditions. Any advise/comments would be appreciated.

 

Thanks GM

[vint1954]

Well, There are no prescribed terms in signt, so the agreement would be unenforcable.

 

As you have been advised earlier, the debt still exists, just that they cannot enforce it in court.