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    • Spoke to my SIL a short while ago Andy and he had the following to say.....     No, he had left their employment by this time, in fact he left January of this year.     August 2013 up until January 2020     Yes, in fact he had a staff MORE card.     He laughed and said "Hell Yes" This even extended to the pubs deputy manageress whom he described as the worst offender and knew that my SIL was doing it as well as other staff members.   There is a story here....   He told me that after he had left, the company fraud guys came in to do an audit with her unofficially being the main target. He has an idea that she may well have been caught with her hand in the till and so she sang like a canary to save her own arse.
    • this is what shell have just sent me in email, confirming mistakes were made it the final response / deadlock letter, they are only telling me this now, 6 months after the deadlock letter was sent to me and long after court action started   please is the actual deadlock letter binding, or can they just noll and void it like this?   Thank you for taking the time to speak with me this evening regarding your account. As agreed, I am emailing you with the details of what was discussed during our phone call so you have a copy in writing. I advised that you previously had an account with Shell Energy (formerly First Utility) for property  and this has an outstanding debit balance of £187.24. However, due to the age of the account and when the invoice was produced on this account, this balance is being cleared. This balance will be cleared within 10 working days and the account will be closed at a zero balance. In regards to account  I advised that back billing credit of £630.45 that was applied in April 2020 was applied in error and was later withdrawn. I explained that the reason it was applied in error is because the back billing period this amount was calculated for, is the same period that the back billing was previously calculated for and a credit applied to the account in February 2017, with the amount of £1192.32 being applied to the energy account. I advised that at the time the deadlock letter was written, the information within this letter was accurate based on the account at that point. After receiving the deadlock letter, you then escalated your case to the Ombudsman. It was at this point, an agent investigated your case and realised that the back billing credit of £630.45 was applied in error. This was addressed within the Ombudsman's findings in writing and they confirmed that the £630.45 was an error and it is correct in being removed, leaving the account balance at £644.48 which is valid and liable to be paid. I appreciate that you have advised the Ombudsman case is null and void as you did not accept their decision and you are right in saying that the actual final decision that they issued was non-binding upon Shell Energy. However, this does not change the outcome of their findings or the fact that the back billing credit of £630.45 was not due to the account. You queried if our call was recorded as you would need it for a judge, to which I confirmed it was recorded. If you want me to raise a SAR for a copy of this call recording, please do not hesitate to reply directly to this email and let me know and I can arrange this for you. I advised that as your case has now been escalated to Shakespeare, legal fees have now been incurred. I advised of the breakdown of these fees: Legal representative cost £70 , Court fee £60 and interest £146.06. I also confirmed that these legal fees were on top of the account debit balance, resulting in an overall balance of £920.54. As discussed, due to the case now being with Shakespeare, I am unable to offer any settlement figure internally. However, I can arrange for Shakespeare to call you directly to discuss your account and options available. You queried if they would be able offer/discuss a settlement figure/payment plan, to which I confirmed that I could not comment on this as I do not know their process, however they will be able to discuss the options in more detail with you directly. As agreed, I will arrange for Shakespeare to call you tomorrow; Friday 27th November 2020. If they are unable to get hold of you, they should be able to leave a voicemail for you. During our call, you also queried who would appear in court to represent Shell, whether it would be a member of staff directly from Shell or whether it would be a representative from Shakespeare on our behalf. I have gone away and spoken to our legal team who have confirmed that it would be Shakespeare who would lead with a representative on behalf of Shell. I hope the information in this email clarifies our position. As advised within our phone call, I am genuinely sorry for the shortfalls you have experienced and I fully appreciate the frustration this has caused. As above, if you would like to request a copy of our call recoding from today, please not hesitate to let me know and I can raise a SAR for this. You can reply directly to this email or you can call on 0330 094 9158. Our lines are open Monday to Friday, 9:00am to 6:00pm. Please note that my working days are Wednesday to Friday each week. Yours sincerely,  
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Capitol One CCA request ignored What Now?


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I Hope you can advise me what to do now with an agreement challenge against Capitol One.

I am currently making them reduced payments and they have frozen the interest, I have not defaulted on the agreement.

 

In December 08 I used 'Oasis' Claims Company to challenge this credit card agreement with Capitol One. Oasis were charging no fees, but have now pulled out of the CCA aspect of their business, but clients have been sent all the correspondence. So, I am hoping that I can deal with it myself as I cannot afford to pay fees to any other claims company.

 

I assume that I can take over the claim as Oasis were just 'representing' me. They originally wrote to Capitol One on 06/12/08 requesting a true copy of my CCA. They seem to have done it correctly and sent my 1.00 pound cheque. Capitol One did respond on 16/12/09 acknowledging the request, but only sent copies of their terms and conditions.

Can you advise me what to do next? Are they in default and if so should I stop paying them while there is a dispute?

 

Thanks. Gimme Money

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi and thanks for your help so far.

 

I decide to send Capitol One a CPR request as follows:

 

MS E Rxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Executive office Manager

Capital One P.O. Box528

Nottingham

 

Dear Ms Rxxxxxxxxxxx,Re: Credit Card Account No, 4xxxxxx FORMAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

On 06/12/2009 my representatives at the time ‘Oasis Financial Services Ltd’ wrote to your organization requesting that you supply me a copy of the agreement for my account. Please note that I am now dealing this matter myself. The request extended to the full agreement which bore my signature.

 

I enclose a copy of the letter which was sent for your information.

 

Although you sent me a copy of the terms and conditions on 16/12/2009, I note that to date I have not received a proper response from your organization, nor have I received a copy of the agreement which I requested. In view of the circumstances, I do not feel it unreasonable to ask for this document to be disclosed, it is not commercially sensitive nor is it a restricted document and should be easily accessible for an organization such as yours. Therefore, I would ask that you provide me with a copy of the contract which bears my signature; I require the complete document with all its part.

 

The reasons why I require this information are clearly set out within my original letter dated 06/12/2009, but I now additionally require this document for the reason that I believe there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.

Since this matter is likely to be subject to proceedings and given that your organization is likely to be a defendant in any action which would be brought by me, I must draw your attention to The Civil Procedure Rules part 31.16(3)©&(D) which gives the court the power to order you to disclose this document to me.

 

The disclosure of these documents will allow me to consider any claim I may have against your organization and will allow for the matter to be dealt with possibly without the need for costly litigation. Therefore, I again ask that you provide me with the documents which I have previously requested. I don't not consider this request unreasonable and therefore if you fail to comply with my request, I will be left no option but to make an application to xxxxxx County Court for an order, made under the provisions of CPR 31.16 ordering you to disclose the documents which I have requested.

 

Additionally, I will ask the court to make an order for my costs in bringing this application and reserve the right to disclose all communications in this matter before the court, should such an application become necessary.

Please confirm by no later than 4pm on 15th. June 2009 that you will comply with my request or if you will not comply, please provide your reasons in writing

 

I've had a reply this morning as follows:

 

Dear Mrxxxxxx RE: Account No. 4xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for writing back to me about your request for us to provide you with a true copy of your credit agreement.

 

As I've already explained, in accordance with section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1 974 and the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, we've provided you with a copy of your original agreement, and if any terms have been varied, then the copy agreement will include the updated terms. In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature were omitted from the copy provided as permitted under Regulation 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

Your account status remains behind defaulted and the balance currently due and payable is £4622.30.

 

It is important that you maintain payments as your account balance consists of transactions that you have made. Failure to do this may result in negative information being recorded on your credit file, which may affect your ability to gain credit in the future.

 

We will continue to pursue the outstanding debt and will defend any application you may wish to bring against us.

 

Financial regulations require me to advise you that this is my final response in relation to this matter. However, you now have the option to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service within six months from the date of this letter. Their contact details are in our complaints leaflet, which I have included with this letter.

 

So, all I have received from them previously was a letter with the current terms and conditions printed on the back and they seem adamant that they have complied with the act?Should I go ahead with an application for a court order under the provision of CPR 31. 16.

 

Thank you.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The account is not in dispute because CAp1 are correct - they only have to send a copy of T&Cs in response to a s78 request. However, if they haven'tsent a document wit your signature and the prescribed terms (credit limit, repayment terms and interest rate), then it is not enforceable.

Steven

 

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Hi,

 

I'm in the same position as you and I have now decided to complain to the FOS as per the advice in their letter.

 

It's cheaper than going to court and if I'm right in thinking that whilst the complaint is being dealt with by the FOS then the account will still be classed as being in dispute.

 

Good Luck In whatever you decide to do.

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Hi, thanks for the 2 replies.

 

Would it worth sending a SAR request now before taking any further action. As I understand, they have to send your CCA if you request a SAR and send the 10.00 fee? And should I also advise them that the account is now in dispute and stop the payments?

 

Thanks GM

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subbing

 

I'm in exactly the same position and am lost as to what to do next.

 

I have also heard that Crapone are not sending out true CCA's with SAR's now

There is no such thing as a 0% credit card....... someone out there is paying for it, and for once its not going to be me.:razz:

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subbing

 

 

 

I have also heard that Crapone are not sending out true CCA's with SAR's now

 

 

This is true in my case.

All they sent me was the same application form the DCA that was chasing me sent.

I am now taking them to court to force compliance.

 

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Hi

 

I have been reading GimmeMoneys case and have a few questions- i'm not sure if you have managed to resolve this as you have not provided a recent update but I ma interested to know whether they had included the info that the site team member indicated was required e.g no of repayments, amount, frequency and timing of repayment etc and whether you eventually managed to successfully write off thedebt.

 

I am also considering doing the same and have a few questions - I have managed to obtain the template letter to send to the company but wanted a little bit of advice regarding what happens after this. I have done something similar with bank charges and found a lot more advice on how to handle responses. I have several questions including:

 

Once I have sent the letter, what should I do if the they have no CCA? Should I stop paying, but if so will they take me to court?

 

If I stop paying and they don;t take me to court, how will this appear on my experion credit report- will it appear assettled or defaulted?

 

If they do threaten to take me to court, what should I do then? I could not find any further letters and whilst I do want to do and avoid paying high fees to solicitirs, I am slightly concerned that with very limited legal knowledge, I am taking on more than I can handle.

 

Any advice from an expert or anyone who has done this before would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks :-)

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The account is not in dispute because CAp1 are correct - they only have to send a copy of T&Cs in response to a s78 request. However, if they haven'tsent a document wit your signature and the prescribed terms (credit limit, repayment terms and interest rate), then it is not enforceable.

 

hi steven

 

So what do you recommend if the account is not in dispute but is unenforceable?

:confused:

There is no such thing as a 0% credit card....... someone out there is paying for it, and for once its not going to be me.:razz:

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Hi,

 

I'm in the same position as you and I have now decided to complain to the FOS as per the advice in their letter.

 

It's cheaper than going to court and if I'm right in thinking that whilst the complaint is being dealt with by the FOS then the account will still be classed as being in dispute.

 

Good Luck In whatever you decide to do.

 

I too have done this for Cap One, as I did for MBNA, although somehow I think it is a waste of time and only an admin excercise

There is no such thing as a 0% credit card....... someone out there is paying for it, and for once its not going to be me.:razz:

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Can anyone give me some advise.

 

I have send the CRP request using a template from the forum. I had a response on 02/06/09 from Ellie telling me that they have complied and that this is their final response.

 

So, I have now complained to FOS, complained to my Local Trading Standards, (I have a meeting with them on 16/07/09) will post outcome later and have emailled my MP & AM (I live in Wales)

 

I'm quite happy to take this all the way to court, but I want to do it correctly. The debt is under 5K so should I put it through the small claims court?

 

I guess the next stage is sending a LETTER BEFORE ACTION using the CPR rules. I've spent hours reading various posts, there are some templates on the site, but I'm a bit unsure about my specific case, so can anyone suggest a letter for me to send?

They have defaulted me; I am on reduced payments & no interest.

 

1/ I want to threaten court action for disclosure (CCA agreement) but what do I quote?

2/ I want to advise them that I believe they don't have a enforceable agreement.

3/ I want to tell them to stop processing my data.

4/ Steve 4064 pointed out that the account is NOT in dispute.

 

All a bit complicated for a non legal brain! :confused:

 

Hope you guys can help :-) GM

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Hi GM

 

Have you read this thread?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/171391-davey77-capital-one.html

 

although Davey's circumstances are different... what you are trying to get out of them is pretty much the same... so it might prove good reading and give you some ideas about the next steps to take.

 

Maxine :-)

Moodle

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Hi GM

 

Have you read this thread?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/171391-davey77-capital-one.html

 

although Davey's circumstances are different... what you are trying to get out of them is pretty much the same... so it might prove good reading and give you some ideas about the next steps to take.

 

Hi Maxine

Yes I spent hours reading this yesterday and its an inspiration! Its is simular to my case and I would consider using a copy of some of the letters that Davey, sent but I thought I would put out this thread to see if anyone had any other ideas for a letter.

 

Davey tried to claim for interest payments made and having read everything I wasn't sure how successful he had been with that?

 

Also, Cap 1 took action against him, were as I am taking action against Cap 1.

 

GM

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In reply to mnayyar

 

I have been reading GimmeMoneys case and have a few questions- i'm not sure if you have managed to resolve this as you have not provided a recent update but I ma interested to know whether they had included the info that the site team member indicated was required e.g no of repayments, amount, frequency and timing of repayment etc and whether you eventually managed to successfully write off thedebt.

 

Still ongoing I now need to threated court action

 

 

I am also considering doing the same and have a few questions - I have managed to obtain the template letter to send to the company but wanted a little bit of advice regarding what happens after this. I have done something similar with bank charges and found a lot more advice on how to handle responses. I have several questions including:

 

Once I have sent the letter, what should I do if the they have no CCA? Should I stop paying, but if so will they take me to court?

 

I'm not sure is you should stop paying them. There seems to be different opinions. You would need to send ''in dispute type letter'' before stopping payments. Once you stopped paying them they will probably enter missed payments and eventually default your account with the CRA's. If you can prove the account is unenforceably then they will be acting illegally if they do this and you may be able to get the default removed. There's quite a lot about this issue on the forum. If you stop paying them it will put more pressure on them to deal with your claim. Yes eventually they will threaten you with court action but shouldn't you be threatening them with action over the non disclosure of the CCA, this is where I'm at!! If you keep paying them it will keep your credit file in tact. But my question is does this kind of admit you recognize the debt you are trying to claim is unenforceable?

 

If I stop paying and they don;t take me to court, how will this appear on my experion credit report- will it appear assettled or defaulted?

 

see above.

 

If they do threaten to take me to court, what should I do then? I could not find any further letters and whilst I do want to do and avoid paying high fees to solicitirs, I am slightly concerned that with very limited legal knowledge, I am taking on more than I can handle.

 

As I understand, if you decide to make a claim for under 5K then you use the small claims court where your liability is limited to ''reasonable travel costs'' for the plaintif if you loose. I guess if they take you to court and you loose then you are clobbered for all their costs! You may be able to get legal aid as Davey did read his posts there is a link on one of the threads above.

 

Any advice from an expert or anyone who has done this before would be greatly appreciated.

 

I would suggest that you start your own post where you will get some other advise. Once I have seen the Trading Standards tommorrow I will post again. Should be intersting! GM

 

Thanks :-)

Edited by Gimme Money
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Can someone have a look at this??

 

I have send the CRP request using a template from the forum. I had a response on 02/06/09 from Ellie telling me that they have complied and that this is their final response.

 

So, I have now complained to FOS, complained to my Local Trading Standards, (I have a meeting with them on 16/07/09) will post outcome later and have emailled my MP & AM (I live in Wales)

 

I'm quite happy to take this all the way to court, but I want to do it correctly. The debt is under 5K so should I put it through the small claims court?

 

I guess the next stage is sending a LETTER BEFORE ACTION using the CPR rules. I've spent hours reading various posts, there are some templates on the site, but I'm a bit unsure about my specific case, so can anyone suggest a letter for me to send?

 

They have defaulted me; I am on reduced payments & no interest.

 

1/ I want to threaten court action for disclosure (CCA agreement) but what do I quote?

2/ I want to advise them that I believe they don't have a enforceable agreement.

3/ I want to tell them to stop processing my data.

4/ Steve 4064 pointed out that the account is NOT in dispute.

 

All a bit complicated for a non legal brain! :confused:

 

Hope you guys can help :-) GM

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Hi,

 

I'm in the same position as you and I have now decided to complain to the FOS as per the advice in their letter.

 

It's cheaper than going to court and if I'm right in thinking that whilst the complaint is being dealt with by the FOS then the account will still be classed as being in dispute.

 

Good Luck In whatever you decide to do.

 

Lynski.. I really would think twice about complaining to the FOS re the lack of an agreement. It won't help I'm afraid and could be used against you later by the creditor:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/175651-complaints-about-fos.html

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/183738-why-does-fos-take-2.html#post2016037

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Hi GM

 

Have you read this thread?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/171391-davey77-capital-one.html

 

although Davey's circumstances are different... what you are trying to get out of them is pretty much the same... so it might prove good reading and give you some ideas about the next steps to take.

 

Hi Maxine

Yes I spent hours reading this yesterday and its an inspiration! Its is simular to my case and I would consider using a copy of some of the letters that Davey, sent but I thought I would put out this thread to see if anyone had any other ideas for a letter.

 

Davey tried to claim for interest payments made and having read everything I wasn't sure how successful he had been with that?

Not successful in reclaiming payments made towards the account (but never really intended to be if you get my meaning.) :)

 

Also, Cap 1 took action against him, were as I am taking action against Cap 1.

Actually i took the action. LBA followed by N1 so i was the claimant and Cap1 were defending.

 

GM

 

:)

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Can someone have a look at this??

 

I have send the CRP request using a template from the forum. I had a response on 02/06/09 from Ellie telling me that they have complied and that this is their final response.

 

So, I have now complained to FOS, complained to my Local Trading Standards, (I have a meeting with them on 16/07/09) will post outcome later and have emailled my MP & AM (I live in Wales)

 

I'm quite happy to take this all the way to court, but I want to do it correctly. The debt is under 5K so should I put it through the small claims court?

 

I guess the next stage is sending a LETTER BEFORE ACTION using the CPR rules. I've spent hours reading various posts, there are some templates on the site, but I'm a bit unsure about my specific case, so can anyone suggest a letter for me to send?

 

They have defaulted me; I am on reduced payments & no interest.

 

1/ I want to threaten court action for disclosure (CCA agreement) but what do I quote?

2/ I want to advise them that I believe they don't have a enforceable agreement.

3/ I want to tell them to stop processing my data.

4/ Steve 4064 pointed out that the account is NOT in dispute.

 

All a bit complicated for a non legal brain! :confused:

 

Hope you guys can help :-) GM

 

Have you sent 2 CPR 31.16 giving 21 days each which technically is the way to do it if you want to show the Court you have been fair and reasonable?

I take it your method for the CPR was taken from this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Hi Davey, thanks for the reply and the answers to my 2 other threads.

 

Have you sent 2 CPR 31.16 giving 21 days each which technically is the way to do it if you want to show the Court you have been fair and reasonable?

I take it your method for the CPR was taken from this thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html[/quote]

 

 

Reply: No I haven't sent letter 2 yet but I will tomorrow and I did get it from the link above.

 

Here's some great news that could be be helpful to many others:

 

I had a 2 hour meeting today with my Local Trading Standards Office and went through each of my cases. They were VERY KEEN to get involve and subject to looking through my paperwork and discussing it colleagues I am sure that they are going to back me up in taking court action over the unenforceable agreements that I have identified.:D:D

 

I will let you know how it things progress next week.

 

Many thanks GM:-)

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I'm impressed. Well done. Don't want to pour water on a fire but just keep an eye on TS.

I have read before that sometimes start to out all fired up and proactive then all of a sudden they start to back track and wiggle out once they realise they will have to go up against a large powerful financial organisation.

 

Hope that's not the case here and you are one of the lucky ones that have found a Trading Standards dept that really has got some backbone tho!

 

Keep us up with any progress.. will be interesting!

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Hi Davey

 

thanks for that comment. Well the law is the law, they were quite clear about that and the TS are supposed to take action on the consumers behalf it is flouted, but I will let you know how it goes. I'll put some links to my other cases tomorrow as I am also trying to deal with the same lenders who have all defaulted on me. Have just send off default query letters to them all.

 

Cheers :) GM

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