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    • You have a minimum of 10 minutes' grace period to find a parking space, read the signs, walk to the stores, later walk back, etc.  There is no maximum.  I think in COVID times when you had to wash your hands thoroughly after consuming food and there was a queue to do so 😉 13 minutes is not excessive and the fleecers' claim can be easily batted off.
    • I offered to read the meter for them based on prepayment of £2400 but they didn't respond.   I also offered to wave the fee for doing so if they send me reasonably estimated bills.
    • Agree completely.  What is disturbing is that VCS actually went for an appeal, the motorists were too lazy to turn up so Simon now has an appeal level verdict in his favour.
    • There were a number of matters that concern me in Judge Saffman's verdict. The first is  that you cannot form a contract with a forbidding  rule. This was not the case in PE v Beavis as it was within the bounds of a carpark where motorists were allowed to park their cars.  Also if a motorist who does stop when apparently they shouldn't is therefore a trespasser and as such VCS cannot sue for trespass only the landowner can do that. Secondly and the Judges in the Beavis case alluded to the fact that while the amount charged -£85- was not a penalty, that had he offence been one of secondary importance then the charge would have been a penalty.To pull off the road for 30 seconds would in most people's view be of secondary importance and therefore a penalty. It is interesting to note that the new Appeals charter for motorists will include mitigating reasons and a tiered system to differentiate between major and minor offences.  On top of that what does a driver do if a pedestrian walks out on to the road. At the moment it looks as if the driver has to run them over since to stop would bring on a fine. That would be ridiculous. And what about a tyre burst or a collision between two vehicles? The Law for the latter  is that you have to stop and exchange details. And there are several other reasons why a motorist may have to stop and none of them would be mitigating. And for every case where a "no stopping" rule has been upheld by a Judge, there have been about  five where the decision has gone the other way.   The Judge paid too much attention to the Beavis case and took its arguments into consideration to justify his reasons when the Beavis case had little similarity to the no stopping case which was confirmed by the District Judge who staed that the two cases "were substantially different on the facts".  
    • Ok I sent off my letter to Gladstone and MB, now the waiting game. I showed MSE and National Consumer Service my letter before claim response and the majority people were not impressed with my letter.   But after reading this quote on CAG, it feels like the next best approach regardless: ''No, it is not a joke reply. The more you show these con artists respect the more they will try to fleece you. Don't fill in their Section D. Treat them with contempt. They're not the police or the council, they have no right to this money and they know it.''   I still feel I've made the right decision but I feel doubtful at times with the wide amount of different opinions people have approaching this situation on the MSE and National Consumer Service forums.   (When I put in p.e.p.i.p.o.o it auto corrects to National Consumer Service)  
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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Guest Happy Contrails
l'm with you and if you PM me we can talk more privatly.

 

Can you send me the incident number or names of the attending police officers and which force & date & times. I will need to see the CAD report.

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8.4 The Bailiff cannot, however, break open a closed but unfastened window or door, open a closed latched window, or USE A LOCKSMITH TO OPEN A DOOR. Use of a landlord's key is also illegal. They cannot force their way past someone at the door, or wedge their foot in a doorway to prevent the door being closed. The protection against forced entry extends to all buildings physically attached to the living premises.

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Hi HC,

Ell-enn is right and l have the guidelines with me here. Also in all honesty l don't think the police was facetious but more likely happy to get out of there having done their ''job''. l do not know what instructions they have, but, it would not surprise me if the corridors of power would silently support the police assisting the bailiffs in executing theis ''duties''.

 

Regarding the names, l have the bailiffs name and number, but, not the police officers, can only remember the number of one. However, they have an intial letter which indicates what force, why, it cannot be to difficult to track them down.

 

There are also my wifes statement, people who overheard the tumult over her mobile and my daughters statement as well.

 

Re. payment, l think it was done with a credit card, but, could have been a debit card as well. Will find all of this out today.

 

Thank you so much for your help and interest in this thread. I now pray this will lead to something better and beneficial to all of us.

GR

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Guys,

Please note that today we have some 960 guests viewing this forum and right now one guest looking at this thread. l got to be a bit cautious as to what l reveal if l'm going to take this further. l do not mind if the people involved find out that l'm on this forum, l've passed that stage, but, l do not want to provide the enemy with more ammunition than necessary.

GR

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To the Perpetual Tourist,

Ther are things we say when in anger or being subjected to a threat of violation. lf anybody states that he has the right to ''come and remove your property whether you like it or not'' l assume that many people like myself would see that as a clear threat to break in. Now, as stated in this thread on more than one occasion, the outburst from my side was not very clever nor appropriate, but, must be put in to context of the situation. This is not a friendly hard working man just doing his duty. This bailiff has violated the law and the guidance for bailiffs on many accounts. Suffice it to say that l regret what l said and l actually told the man that l had no intention of harming him, if not in so many words. What l cannot understand is the selfappointed moralists who continue to frown on my outburst, but, seems to totslly ignore the incident itself. I am sorry if l have upset some moral and upright citizen, but, l am only human and sometimes do fail to be cool and correct in everything l do. However, we are lucky to have those who ''never lose it'' and hopefully they will contribute to this forum so that the rest of us poor devils receive the help and advice we need. Besides that, l could have been a Brazilian electrician of course.

GR

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Hi GR,

 

I endorse what you say - lets concentrate on the incident itself after all the bailiff should be the one acting responsibly here. By making unjustified threats he was only exacerbating the problem.

 

I wonder how many times he has caused the problem by his attitude.

 

GK

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Thank you GK,

 

Let's keep to the issue, besides, l do not really know why l am apologizing all the time. The Law and Using Force against Someone Committing a Crime i.e. entering your home illegally and with force with a criminal intent to obtain goods or other valuables is fairly clear. The use of force to protect property is permitted and how much is a question of the circumstances. If l fear for my life, then l can virtually use any force deemed required to protect myself. ln the case of criminal entry (theft) it is assumed that less force is permissable, but, again depends on the circumstances. A bailiff that enters the property by force is committing a crime and cosequently l have the right to protect myself. lf the same bailiff informs me that he is in the intent progress to commit such a crime, then, l must have the legal right to warn him off. l don't know what he will do, who he is and if he is violent or a threat to my life.

l have in other words, done nothing else, than given the bailiff advanced warning, that if he enters my property by illegal force l have the right and obligation to protect myself and my property. Finally, to blow someones head off does not necessarily mean to shoot someone as it (according to various dictionaries) can simply mean to deliver a blow to the head, even if excessive. l'm not armed,why, a baseball bat would have to do.

And therewith l hope this particular subject is resolved and finished. l really want to get on with the wider and much more important issue of bailiffs and debt collection as stated above in this thread.

To all of you who have patiently endured the spam here, don't give up we shall reach there eventually.

GR

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Guys,

Please note that today we have some 960 guests viewing this forum and right now one guest looking at this thread. l got to be a bit cautious as to what l reveal if l'm going to take this further. l do not mind if the people involved find out that l'm on this forum, l've passed that stage, but, l do not want to provide the enemy with more ammunition than necessary.

GR

 

Dug out and dusted down what I did to claim back my charges from the Bailliff in a similar overcharged , compelled situation to yours .

Rang the enforcement section manager at Northampton Combined Court Section and district registry of the High Court , helpful-01604 470400 . This took a little bit of seeking out as I think its the Proper part not The Traffic Enforcement centre ,where they print out the warrants .

The lady sent out a N244 form , Application of assessment of fees charged.

 

I filled this in Section c with my witness statement , from my father who happens to be a lawyer of 50 years experience who had telephoned the bailiff on my behalf , and was not impressed with his attitude or his knowledge of the law. He had told me he was getting a locksmith etc etc , charged me £550 odd when the ticket was £189 and he had made one visit to drop in a letter.

I had written to the bailliff to show willing first asking for a breakdown of his costs . I addressed all to the bailliffs company , including the claim as i held them liable for the behavior of the named individual. Surprise Surprise I had no reply .

I sent it off with my cheque for £35.00 plus my reasonable costs for the claim £50 , £9.25/hr plus postage etc . sent all recorded delivery .

 

Got a letter back teeling me it had been referred to The Designated Circuit Judge who has stated;

"The application is for assessment pursuant to Distress for Rent Rules;Rule11 {copy enclosed} to be carried out by a District judge of the County Court of the district where the distress is levied, i.e W88'

Super i then got a letter from the bailliffs offering to pay back all the charges less the fine plus the court fee and costs , if I agreed to inform the court that the matter was settled . I think they were worried lest the bailiff lost his job/license . I took the cheque cannot remember if I remembered to inform the court.

However I did have the baillifs mobile no ,so put an advert in the local paper offering evening man massage , after 9pm promising dirty talk , AM you know who you are , only joking ! that would be wrong !

Perhaps I should have sued the council for setting fraudulent thugs on me , perhaps I will if anyones got an argument i would love it , the irony is I have since got a refund for the ticket as it was issued contrary to the road traffic act 1974 , see Moses v Barnet , now I think about it I should sue the council , Suggestions please !!!!

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Guys,

 

There is this super site you can google called ''SCREW THE BAILIFF'' or http://criminal -bailiffs.angelfire.com/criminalcomplaint.htm where you will find not only guidance how to make a complaint about a certificated bailiff, but, all the necessary templates as well. Thes templates include but are not limited to:

 

  1. Subject Access Request.
  2. Claim Refund of Bailiffs Fees.
  3. Complaint to an Authority about a Bailiff/Reclaim Fees.
  4. Reporting a Bailiff to Police.
  5. Reporting a Police Officer to the IPCC for Improper Conduct.

Seriously good and very helpful stuff that everyone in a similar situation as what l have experienced should read and if suitable use.

GR

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Dug out and dusted down what I did to claim back my charges from the Bailliff in a similar overcharged , compelled situation to yours .

Rang the enforcement section manager at Northampton Combined Court Section and district registry of the High Court , helpful-01604 470400 . This took a little bit of seeking out as I think its the Proper part not The Traffic Enforcement centre ,where they print out the warrants .

The lady sent out a N244 form , Application of assessment of fees charged.

 

I filled this in Section c with my witness statement , from my father who happens to be a lawyer of 50 years experience who had telephoned the bailiff on my behalf , and was not impressed with his attitude or his knowledge of the law. He had told me he was getting a locksmith etc etc , charged me £550 odd when the ticket was £189 and he had made one visit to drop in a letter.

I had written to the bailliff to show willing first asking for a breakdown of his costs . I addressed all to the bailliffs company , including the claim as i held them liable for the behavior of the named individual. Surprise Surprise I had no reply .

I sent it off with my cheque for £35.00 plus my reasonable costs for the claim £50 , £9.25/hr plus postage etc . sent all recorded delivery .

 

Got a letter back teeling me it had been referred to The Designated Circuit Judge who has stated;

"The application is for assessment pursuant to Distress for Rent Rules;Rule11 {copy enclosed} to be carried out by a District judge of the County Court of the district where the distress is levied, i.e W88'

Super i then got a letter from the bailliffs offering to pay back all the charges less the fine plus the court fee and costs , if I agreed to inform the court that the matter was settled . I think they were worried lest the bailiff lost his job/license . I took the cheque cannot remember if I remembered to inform the court.

However I did have the baillifs mobile no ,so put an advert in the local paper offering evening man massage , after 9pm promising dirty talk , AM you know who you are , only joking ! that would be wrong !

Perhaps I should have sued the council for setting fraudulent thugs on me , perhaps I will if anyones got an argument i would love it , the irony is I have since got a refund for the ticket as it was issued contrary to the road traffic act 1974 , see Moses v Barnet , now I think about it I should sue the council , Suggestions please !!!!

 

 

 

Hi Noddy,

 

Many thanks for this. As you can see l've found some other interesting stuff on the net. Recommend you check this one out, it's great and gives you load of info. including things l did'nt even think about. There is under grounds for complaint a heading The Bailiff Defrauded you an item that says ....''charged you a walking possession fee without you signing it. This is surely something worth looking in to. There are further grounds as fraud by overcharging and so on, but, l have to study this package and the actual law in detail to be sure how to proceed.

 

One thig is clear, though, Mr Swatman is in a whole pile of trouble and l shall come down on him, with the help of the law, as a ton of bricks.

GR

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Did we not lose the plot on this one? The police stood by and allowed the bailiff to act illegally in order to gain entry right in front of their eyes. The bailiff defrauded the OP by wrongfully claiming in front of the police that he had a 'right of entry'. He must have know that he didn't.

 

Clearly the police didn't know the law. Which force was it?

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Hi Noddy,

 

Many thanks for this. As you can see l've found some other interesting stuff on the net. Recommend you check this one out, it's great and gives you load of info. including things l did'nt even think about. There is under grounds for complaint a heading The Bailiff Defrauded you an item that says ....''charged you a walking possession fee without you signing it. This is surely something worth looking in to. There are further grounds as fraud by overcharging and so on, but, l have to study this package and the actual law in detail to be sure how to proceed.

 

One thig is clear, though, Mr Swatman is in a whole pile of trouble and l shall come down on him, with the help of the law, as a ton of bricks.

GR

 

You are right , excellent site , in your instance did he charge on top for a walking possession agreement as you paid once he was on the premises , he had committed the fraud before he came in your door , now to get your tanks in a row , nemo me impune lacessit !

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Guest Happy Contrails
Guys,

 

There is this super site you can google called ''SCREW THE BAILIFF''

 

I made the templates for it.

 

Screw The Bailiff is my nephew and he made the website after getting the bug when on the receiving end of cheating bailiffs. He was entheused how I chased them away and dragged them before then courts, but the entheusiasm didn't last long.

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Did we not lose the plot on this one? The police stood by and allowed the bailiff to act illegally in order to gain entry right in front of their eyes.

 

Clearly they didn't know the law. Which force was it?

 

 

 

Hi FP,

 

The police did not only stand by and allowed the bailiff to illegally vedge his foot in the doo, but, actuall demanded or seriously '' requested'' that l let them all. There's a lot more to the story that l now remember after having cooled down, but, the gist is that despite my most streneous resistance and contineous assertions that l would let no one in without a warrant, they gained entry. The police never cautioned the bailiff about his rights and the rules of engagement, but, were more interested in getting the matter over with asap. l did not have a chance, short of resortng to physical restraint and you just do not do that with the police. As a matter of fact l actually thought they sent an armed response team to take me out, despite not being a Brazilian Electrician. The law is clear and has been contravened in so many places that l now will start some major proceedings.

 

l do not know exactly how they train the plod to behave and act in cases like mine, but, as the number of actions involving bailiffs is on a very steep increase l predict that we will eventually have a Brazilian case soon unless something is done. These ''bailiffs'' are mostly private self employed guys working on a no pay no fee basis and will obviously do all and everything they can to make the punter pay, legal or illegal. Again, let me stress that despite my reservations about people who engage in this sort of activities, l am fully aware and appreciate that there are many many good guys too and this goes for the police as well. But, as we all know there's always the rotten apples and unless you sort them out and get rid of them l'm afraid the whole barrel will go to smithereens.

GR

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PS

Sorry forgot about the police force. It must have been Croydon and their shoulder tags started with Z. l'm not giving out any names or similar and will deal with that part of my problems by myself.

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I made the templates for it.

 

Screw The Bailiff is my nephew and he made the website after getting the bug when on the receiving end of cheating bailiffs. He was entheused how I chased them away and dragged them before then courts, but the entheusiasm didn't last long.

Why may I ask did the entusiasm not last long ?

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I made the templates for it.

 

Screw The Bailiff is my nephew and he made the website after getting the bug when on the receiving end of cheating bailiffs. He was entheused how I chased them away and dragged them before then courts, but the entheusiasm didn't last long.

 

Howdy HC,

 

Best stuff l've seen for a long long time. Good for you and your nephew and l hope this will be something being recommended on this forum. l am in the process of going through the docs. and will gratefully ask for any advice you have when the time comes.

 

One question though, that you or Gamekeeper may have an answere too. Is it allowed or is it common for a bailiff to enter a house and carry the entire house away on his first visit??? l would have thought, that once in, he would levy distress on selected goods at the estimated value of the charges and then give you xxx days to pay up before removing your goods. What does the law say and what are the guidelines??? lt seems impossible to find any real answere to these questions.

GR

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Hi FP,

 

The police did not only stand by and allowed the bailiff to illegally vedge his foot in the doo, but, actuall demanded or seriously '' requested'' that l let them all. There's a lot more to the story that l now remember after having cooled down, but, the gist is that despite my most streneous resistance and contineous assertions that l would let no one in without a warrant, they gained entry. The police never cautioned the bailiff about his rights and the rules of engagement, but, were more interested in getting the matter over with asap. l did not have a chance, short of resortng to physical restraint and you just do not do that with the police. As a matter of fact l actually thought they sent an armed response team to take me out, despite not being a Brazilian Electrician. The law is clear and has been contravened in so many places that l now will start some major proceedings.

 

l do not know exactly how they train the plod to behave and act in cases like mine, but, as the number of actions involving bailiffs is on a very steep increase l predict that we will eventually have a Brazilian case soon unless something is done. These ''bailiffs'' are mostly private self employed guys working on a no pay no fee basis and will obviously do all and everything they can to make the punter pay, legal or illegal. Again, let me stress that despite my reservations about people who engage in this sort of activities, l am fully aware and appreciate that there are many many good guys too and this goes for the police as well. But, as we all know there's always the rotten apples and unless you sort them out and get rid of them l'm afraid the whole barrel will go to smithereens.

GR

There is on this site the Police Guidelines for bailiffs , so the plod do have them , its not that the police are unaware . However their attitude is probably down to laziness or indifference , a call to a bailliffs dispute is probably not the highlight of their day , and on a human level they probably wanted to sort it and get out , no excuse and worthy of a complaint , there should be a log of the incident at the nick .

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Guest Happy Contrails
Why may I ask did the entusiasm not last long ?

 

I guess he got bored of putting bailiffs infront of the judge. It was a thankless task.

 

Is it allowed or is it common for a bailiff to enter a house and carry the entire house away on his first visit???

 

Its allowed but I've never see it done. The word 'Bailiff' often conjures up the image of men in black suits shifting heavy furniture out of the house. It is a common misconception.

 

Bailiffs are not interested in emptying the house, many debtors are from the low-income communities and chattels in their properties are usually worthless. A bailiff just wants the debt paid.

 

Taking cars puts a bailiff in a catch 22, its either worthless scrap or its on finance. Less then 50% of council tax liability orders get paid, and much fewer for parking tickets referred to bailiffs eventually get paid. Being a bailiff is a horrible job, its very demoralising having to force struggling single mums to give up their child benefit, and many bailiffs quickly move on looking for more satisfying work.

 

l would have thought, that once in, he would levy distress on selected goods at the estimated value of the charges and then give you xxx days to pay up before removing your goods. What does the law say and what are the guidelines???

 

Broadly speaking that's correct, but there is some minor variation in the legislation according to the type of debt.

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You are right , excellent site , in your instance did he charge on top for a walking possession agreement as you paid once he was on the premises , he had committed the fraud before he came in your door , now to get your tanks in a row , nemo me impune lacessit !

 

Hi Noddy,

 

Haven't got a clue about the costs as Marstons refuses to supply me with any form of relevant information, including the cost break down. l am dealing with that now, and it is actually in my favour that they refuse to forward what l am entitled to.

 

Not much of a tank man l'm afraid, was in special airforce engineering most of my time i.e. building temporary air bases and so on, but, did some time in a tank regiment (as an engineer) in another country.

 

As to my latin it's bad but got the gist and for sure no-one is safe but me?? hope you do not refer to the butcher??

GR

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I guess he got bored of putting bailiffs infront of the judge. It was a thankless task.

 

 

 

 

Being a bailiff is a horrible job, its very demoralising having to force struggling single mums to give up their child benefit, and many bailiffs quickly move on looking for more satisfying work.

 

Hi HC,

So l'm not that far of the mark when l say that l do believe normal people will find it impossible to maintain their sanity doing this kind of work. There are good guys, but, they do not stay on and those who enjoy what they are doing are of a certain kind.

GR

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Guest Happy Contrails
Haven't got a clue about the costs as Marstons refuses to supply me with any form of relevant information, including the cost break down.

 

Reading your thread, the debt is an unpaid parking ticket. The law that prescribes bailiffs fees can be found in Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993.

 

I am assuming the ticket and the £5 court fee comes to £155.00. Your post indicates:

 

i) you have not signed a document saying you agree to a walking possession agreement

ii) No goods belonging to you as been transported by a bailiff in a vehicle

 

This means the bailiff can only charge you £11.20 +VAT 15% for a letter, and 28% on the £155 being £43.40 + VAT. So the maximum fees including VAT the bailiff should have charged you is £62.79. Add £155 gives a grand total of £217.79.

 

Proceed with this template: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/196471-urgent-help-equita-regarding.html#post2175065

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Reading your thread, the debt is an unpaid parking ticket. The law that prescribes bailiffs fees can be found in Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993.

 

I am assuming the ticket and the £5 court fee comes to £155.00. Your post indicates:

 

i) you have not signed a document saying you agree to a walking possession agreement

ii) No goods belonging to you as been transported by a bailiff in a vehicle

 

This means the bailiff can only charge you £11.20 +VAT 15% for a letter, and 28% on the £155 being £43.40 + VAT. So the maximum fees including VAT the bailiff should have charged you is £62.79. Add £155 gives a grand total of £217.79.

 

Proceed with this template: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/196471-urgent-help-equita-regarding.html#post2175065

 

Thank you HC,

 

l think l've seen this template and have it downloaded somewhere. Just run out of ink so have to go out and buy.

 

As to the figures, they seem to be about right. The bailiff wil, of course claim that he has attende with vehicles to collect etc. etc., but, as we all know by now that is male cow manure.

 

You do not know how much l appreciate all the help and basis for discussion l receive.

Thank you all so much.

GR

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