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Paypal seller problem - Sold item on ebay chargeback


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Hi,

 

I am a private seller. I have not sold much, only the odd thingor two. I need some advice on the following issue have recently had with paypal. Here is the sequence of events.

 

1. I sold an expensive item through ebay (£500.00). I was paid via paypal. I transferred the money to my bank account and sent item around 4 days after being paid. In the meantime the seller raised a claim for not receiving item.

 

2. He received the item. A couple of days later he changed his claim to item not as described. Paypal said it was damaged and a fake. I did not mis-describe the item. It was not damaged when i sent it or was it a fake.

 

3. The case was found in the buyers favour. He sent item back. I did not receive item but according to royal mail the item was returned to the buyer. Paypal closed the case and put a negative balance on my account.

 

4. Paypal have requested i pay the negative balance on my account. I have refused as i do not have the item. I have asked numerous times to return item, however I have not had it back.

 

5. I have emailed the seller but he will not communicate with me (no reply to any of my emails).

 

I beleive he may have been attempting a [problem] by raising his claim. I have tried to communicate with paypal however it seems that they are not intrested in listening or resolving my complaint.

 

As far as the law goes, where do i stand?

 

many thanks

purple-man

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in the three instance i have had issues with paypal ,they have been ok.

have you tried the dedicated uk phone no. on the website

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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How do i make a claim against the buyer for that amount? Is there a way to do that with paypal? I do not have the buyer detail, the name given was the owner of the account which was a female, however all of the emails came from a male.

 

I have explained to paypal that this was one of the reasons that I suspected that there was a problem with the buyer.

 

Where do i stand as far as the law goes?

 

many thanks

purple-man

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Info on making claims can be found in the packs advertised on the left hand side of the page, and in the sticky posts.

 

Your claim would be that they owe you either the money returned to them, or the item not returned.

 

You should be able to obtain the buyers details from ebay / paypal. Whoever the details are for, it is them that you would make the claim against, as they are the person with whom you made the transaction.

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did you pay by credit card?

if so, use chargeback

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Just to clarify. Although a certain amount of money that was present in my paypal account was taken by paypal and paid to the buyer, i still have £450.00 of the money. Should I pay it into my paypal account and them attempt to get the item back or should i take it to the courts?

 

Does anybody have a similar experience to base mine on?

 

much appreciated,

purple-man

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Hardly relevant to this issue.

 

cheers buz

 

wrong thread

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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How did you send the item to your buyer?

 

For items of that value Paypal require an online visible signature from the buyer to prove delivery.

 

If you do not have this to show Paypal then they will always side with a buyers claim of non receipt.

 

Everytime that you receive a payment from a buyer,Paypal/ebay always include these lines ...

 

Reversals:

Please be aware that your payment can still be reversed, (e.g. if it is subject to a chargeback), even after you have posted the item to your buyer. Complying with PayPal's protection programs and following the trading guidelines, in our Security Centre helps to protect you from things like chargebacks

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Just to clarify. Although a certain amount of money that was present in my paypal account was taken by paypal and paid to the buyer, i still have £450.00 of the money. Should I pay it into my paypal account and them attempt to get the item back or should i take it to the courts?

 

Does anybody have a similar experience to base mine on?

 

much appreciated,

purple-man

 

DO NOT PAY THE MONEY BACK INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT, if so you will never see it again.

 

I've been in a similar situation, sold a laptop, buyer collected, later turned out account had been hacked, Id withdrawn money, Paypal refund original true buyer, my account was minus £200.

 

To be honest, paypal were no help at all, they rarely seem to know wahts going on.

 

I received a couple of emails from Paypal asking me to bring my balance to zero, I couldnt even if I wanted to as I had closed my account, the email then gave me an address in theUS to send a 'check' to.

 

I'm now being chased my a DCA but I wrote to them asking to explain this amount and they replied..Log onto your Paypal account !..Pathetic.

 

The best advise is prob to just ignore it all, Paypal will try and claim the money back through a DCA but its unlikely their confusing T & C's would stand up in court and in cases like yours they have yet to actually pursue anyone in court, the fact that they are based in Luxombourg no doubt makes it harder for them

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DO NOT PAY THE MONEY BACK INTO YOUR PAYPAL ACCOUNT, if so you will never see it again.

 

I've been in a similar situation, sold a laptop, buyer collected, later turned out account had been hacked, Id withdrawn money, Paypal refund original true buyer, my account was minus £200.

 

To be honest, paypal were no help at all, they rarely seem to know wahts going on.

 

I received a couple of emails from Paypal asking me to bring my balance to zero, I couldnt even if I wanted to as I had closed my account, the email then gave me an address in theUS to send a 'check' to.

 

I'm now being chased my a DCA but I wrote to them asking to explain this amount and they replied..Log onto your Paypal account !..Pathetic.

 

The best advise is prob to just ignore it all, Paypal will try and claim the money back through a DCA but its unlikely their confusing T & C's would stand up in court and in cases like yours they have yet to actually pursue anyone in court, the fact that they are based in Luxombourg no doubt makes it harder for them

 

Ignoring the situation will not get the situation resolved as ebay/paypal use a particularly aggresive and relentless DCA.

 

Reading advice on ebay's discussion boards--or post your problem there-- will get answers and suggestions from people who have been in a similar posisition

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Paypal require you to show proof of posting by using recorded or special delivery only. Many sellers think they can say 'I'm not responsible for items lost in the post I always obtain cert of posting.' Unfortunately with Paypal this is not acceptable and they will always side with the buyer if correct proof not shown. Many dis-honset ebayers have now cottoned on to this.

 

Therefore, I would have thought it reasonable to argue with paypal (and you must be persistant) that the buyer show proper proof of posting back to you. At £500 value they should have sent it back special delivery and if you haven't received it then a claim can be made against the PO. If the buyer won't respond with the tracking number then paypal should be giving them the money back til they do.

 

There are so many [problematic] these days on ebay that it's becoming difficult to keep protected as a seller, it's really not worth selling on there anymore! Other things to remember:

 

1. Only send to a verified address on paypal.

2. Only send recorded or special delivery.

3. Never post mobile phones abroad, they're not insured by the PO.

4. Don't bother sending anything abroad, even 'signed for', as it's not tracked once it leaves the UK. So proof of delivery isn't there!

 

Hope this helps someone!:)

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#15 tommyzoom

 

Never post mobile phones abroad, they're not insured by the PO.

 

Why would the PO be responsible for insuring anything--your contract is with whichever carrier you choose to use.

 

 

Don't bother sending anything abroad, even 'signed for', as it's not tracked once it leaves the UK. So proof of delivery isn't there!

 

Guess I must have been extremely lucky with all the tracked parcels I've sent abroad then--and even luckier in that I could obtain proof of delivery as and when I wanted to as long as I had used the appropriate carrier and service!

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Ignoring the situation will not get the situation resolved as ebay/paypal use a particularly aggresive and relentless DCA.

 

Reading advice on ebay's discussion boards--or post your problem there-- will get answers and suggestions from people who have been in a similar posisition

 

As any regulars on here will agree 'relentless and agressive DCA's' means very little...they have no legal powers and if relentless means harrasing people without providing evidence of the debt owed then this would quickly become unlawful....Just look at how many complaints there are against Intrum Justitia.

 

Unfortunatly getting issues like this resolved is a nightmare, believe me, I tried but eventually just gave up ! Paypal operate in their own strange world of bizarre T & C's, they barely operate within the framework of UK Law, even understanding exactlty what juristiction they come under gives you a headache.

 

If Paypal or their threatening DCA's would actually provide me the evidence I have requested or to actually issue court proceedings then it would be a different matter. I pointed this out to them and they have now shut up.

 

 

Ok..Just recieved this from Paypal

 

Thank you for contacting PayPal in relation to your buyer dispute, case id:

PP-684-xxx-xx

 

Mr. andy is this case to appeal there is only one option and that is to

say that you have received your item.

 

As the case has been appealed, you received an email requesting the item be

returned.

 

Regretfully as your seller has provided valid proof that he sent the item

to you, the case has been closed in favour of your seller.

 

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

 

Sincerely,

Lucy

UK Department

PayPal, an eBay Company

 

It doesn't make any sense, I bought an item and didnt receive it, the seller gave me the mail tracking number, this shows the item wasn't delivered !

 

Now Paypal waffle on about how I must return the item !..WTF !..I never received it !..,

 

In any dispute with them this is the sort of crap you have to deal with !

 

Andy

Edited by andydd
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Paypal require you to show proof of posting by using recorded or special delivery only.

 

In addition to the other correction, I'm afraid PayPal require you to show proof of a signed DELIVERY. They don't care whether you posted it or not. If you cannot provide them with a link to view a signature of delivery, any claim against you will be upheld.

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There are a number of similar threads along these lines where the alleged debt is passed to a DCA. Nonetheless, PayPal seem reluctant to pursue such matters through the court.

 

If you are happy to let your eBay and PayPal account be suspended then I would just be inclined to ignore the "debt."

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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In addition to the other correction, I'm afraid PayPal require you to show proof of a signed DELIVERY. They don't care whether you posted it or not. If you cannot provide them with a link to view a signature of delivery, any claim against you will be upheld.

 

The buyer appears to have acknowledged receipt by changing his claim to the item being damaged/fake.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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There are a number of similar threads along these lines where the alleged debt is passed to a DCA. Nonetheless, PayPal seem reluctant to pursue such matters through the court.

 

If you are happy to let your eBay and PayPal account be suspended then I would just be inclined to ignore the "debt."

 

You can open another account...Techinically if you read the T & C's you can only have 1 premier and 1 normal account at anyone time but there is no check on this it seems.

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You can open another account...Techinically if you read the T & C's you can only have 1 premier and 1 normal account at anyone time but there is no check on this it seems.

 

You normally need separate bank accounts for each one.

 

But...would you trust them not to reclaim the £500 allegedly owing??!!!!

 

You would need a new identity and address...possibly even a new IP address as these are also logged.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

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In addition to the other correction, I'm afraid PayPal require you to show proof of a signed DELIVERY. They don't care whether you posted it or not. If you cannot provide them with a link to view a signature of delivery, any claim against you will be upheld.

 

Do you know where in Paypal's T & C's this bit is ?

 

I ask because recently i bought an item, it never arrived, seller provided proof of postage but that proof shows nothing other than something was posted to someone...so really pretty useless..in the dispute Paypal just asked (him) for proof of postage, they didnt seem to care about proof of delivery, I can see in front of me from Royal Tracking that the item was not delivered...nothing has ever been delivered to my house, not the item NOR a while you were out card, I have to assume it has been returned to the sender but he denies it was.

 

I'm about to launch an online court claim for the money, only £30, but I've just been made redundant so dont see why i should lose out.

 

I have no faith in Paypal disputes process as Ive lost out both as a seller and buyer.

 

Andy

Edited by andydd
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To be protected under the Seller Protection Scheme, the seller must be able to confirm delivery...that's all I can see at the moment

 

11.7 What are the postage requirements?

 

Also, as regards your receipt, whenever I have obtained proof of postage, the Post Master always writes the house number and postcode as a minimum.

If you feel I've helped then by all means click my star to the left...a simple "thank you" costs nothing! ;)

 

Restons MBNA -v- WelshMam

 

MBNA Cards

 

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To be protected under the Seller Protection Scheme, the seller must be able to confirm delivery...that's all I can see at the moment

 

 

 

Also, as regards your receipt, whenever I have obtained proof of postage, the Post Master always writes the house number and postcode as a minimum.

 

 

I'm the buyer in this case, is the Seller Protection Scheme to protect sellers ?. I'm a bit confused as clearly in my case there is NO proof of delivery, Paypal seem to be ignoring this.

 

The second point isnt relevant as I'm the buyer like I said, I've been trying to get the receipt from the seller but with no success at least then I could claim from Royal Mail, my local post office has told me that the seller put wrong address on, I fear this is the case, but i am unable to get proof of this, Royal Mail have been no help at all.

 

Andy

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