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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 162 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Bryan Carter at it again!!!!!

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Yes, Bryan carter are at it again!!!!


Today Gary got a letter from them, I'll basically put it here.


Final Notice(in big black bold letter's,OH SCARY)



Dear Sir/Madam,


Re: E Banking


Outstanding Balance:********



You have failed to repay this debt, which is seriously overdue.


This matter will be referred for proposed litigation on 19th may 2009.

Court Proceedings may be issued without furtheer notice to you if payment is not recieved at our office before the above mentioned date.


If proceedings are issued Court costs and interest will be added to your debt and therefore the debt will increase.


You must make payment before the 19th May 09, if you wish to aaviod the matter going to court. Payments can be accepted by debit cards and in some cases credit card. Plaese call us on telephone number 08453133126.


A judgment order may prevent you from gaining credit in the future and will remain on the register of judgement debts for a period of 6years.


We look forward to hearing from you with your payment.


Now most of this letter was in Bold black lettering, trying to make it look scary, you pay up or we will take your soul or your kids, kind of thing.



So I got out my old mobile and called them on behalf of Gaz, gave ref number, and told them that the debt was still being collected by Direct legal & Collections and the date the past payment was made to our DMP was 8th may. Also told monkey, that Fredrickson's had refused to deal with our DMP, they came back with that Fredrickson's had, had no contact with Payplan, now we know this is a lie as our case worker told us on the phone, that she had spoken to them and said that they were Lying. And that I was to get Gary to call Crook and Co and that they were open up untill 9pm I told her that their was no chance of gaz calling them and we would be requesting all info under Cpr18 or CPR 31.14. And that if they wanted to take Gaz to court then please do as we can show that we are paying the debt, and that no letter of asignment has been sent by fredrickson's even though Payplan have requested it and so has Gaz on numerous occasions.


I was also told by the monkey that they had no way of calling out, when I told them to call playplan, told her that I found that very hard to believe.


So now waiting for calls from them back to my old mobile number.


So what after sending the Cpr request????


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You MUST also report them to the OFT


Ok, have they broken data protection, by telling me that they've had no reponse from our DMP, although we know that they have.


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You could try sending this (Courtesy of Martin) recorded delivery to Carters....




Their address






Dear Sir/Madam,


This is in acknowledgement of your letter dated ................and also of .............The contents of which have been duly noted.

Further to you stressing that County Court proceedings will be actioned by yourselves should I fail to make contact/stressing that proccedings are about to be commenced in regard to alleged sums outstanding and alleged owed by me on the above account,I remind you of Civil procedure rules protocols.

Nevertheless in my response to your letter please be advised of the following.


I put forward that you now have a requirement to provide me with;


1) A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. Please note that a "true copy" as defined by the Consumer Credit Act will not be acceptable in this case, and a copy of the actual executed agreement, including signature, is required.


2) All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to


1. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, payments and both the amounts of credit and any repayments made to the account.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations

3. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period that has required manual intervention by any person, disclosure of any indication or notes that have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account held by me with........... is required.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.


I make this request to ensure that each party has equal footings which can allow action to proceed speedily fairly and without undue costs or waste of courts time,as defined within Pre-action Practice Directions -Protocols 4.6 of the Civil Procedures Rules.

I will give you 14 days to respond with the above,failure to comply will result in a complaint being made to the Court./In addition to the FOS for any breaches of OFT and CCA codes.This includes breaches as a result of initiating a Country Court claim where failing to provide or produce documents make litigation improper..

Specifically this relates to one or any number of the following;


* demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* add any further interest or charges to the account.

* pass/sell the account or outstanding balance to any third party.

* register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.

* issue a default notice related to the account.


Furthermore,I reserve my right to make a copy of this letter available for inspection to the Court and Financial/Consumer regulators should you fail to comply with this request.

I await your response,and should you need further clarification on any of the above points,then I suggest that you direct them to your legal department.


Yours Faithfully/Sincerely


......................... . (not to be signed) Print name



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Just watch out that Payplan DONT get involved in any court action, otherwise they will just admit the debt and you will get an automatic CCJ...



Right I didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.


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It's likely they will ignore your letter and issue a court claim, let me know if they do...


Thanks 42


CCA request to fred's is now done and ready to go.

Edited by JAN1471


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No, no court claim, they sent only what i can assume to be a threat o gram.


gaz is in the middle of sendinga cca request to them will probably go out in the post tomorrow. But now does he send it to Fredrickson's or Bryan carter????



This is the tactic I used to respond to BC




1st recorded letter 'never arrived' so addressed the 2nd envelope to Fredrickson's only but the letter contained therein was addressed to BC c/o Fredrickson's.



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I have been through something similar with Fredrickson's and Bryan Carter. I had a letter exactly the same as yours. I applied to and paid both Fredrickson's and Bryan Carter for an SAR and CCA and have sent a notice of default when I didn't receive them. (I have paid for this info 5 times now and still not received it!) This is the letter I received from Carter yesterday - you might possibly receive a similar one;


"We thank you for your letter dated 6th May requesting documentation.


We are unable to provide this information. If you require documentation you can request this direct from our client but in the meantime please contact our offices to discuss discharghing the outstanding balance."


I'm not sure what this means legally. Is it an admission that they can't take me to court? I'm wondering whether to ring them or write to them again. :confused: Incidentally, although the address on the letterhead is De Havilland Drive, Surrey - the letter was actually posted in Preston.

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I would say, that he hasn't got the documents I would wait and see what Fredrickson's come up with, if anything, they probably won't have the cca either.


When does the CCA time end ie the 12+2 for you?


Cos what I would do is the day after the time is up, is goto the templates letter and send them an account in dispute letter and maybe just for BC's sake, send him a letter kind of along the lines of:


Dear Numpty,


Thank for your letter dated****, the contents of which have been noted and for your information I have also written to on Fredrickson International Ltd for a true copy of the CCA, which I am sure you already aware off, due to the fact that you share the same buliding.


The request made to Fredrickson's for the said CCA, expires, on ............. and I will be seeking for the account to be put into dispute not only with Fredrickson's but also with yourselves aswell.


As I am sure you are aware that I can do this under Civil procedures act.





Name(Print don't sign)



Keeps BC on his toes, lets him know that you know what he's upto.


Any suggestions on weather this should be sent or not gratefully recieved, or if anybody has anything better than please post.


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Send this to BC once the 12 + 2 is up:


Dear Sirs


I refer to your letter of XXXX 2008 which was received today.


Frankly, I am surprised of the need to advise a firm of solicitors about the terms and conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement request (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); dated XXXX 2008 for which I have proof of receipt . I can only assume therefore that they failed to inform you of their non compliance. Your client had until (12+2 days after sending date) 2008 to comply with a legal request.


Should your client persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by your client under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion.


Amend to suit, send recorded keeping a copy with your postal receipt, DO NOT SIGN print your name etc....

  • Haha 1
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When the wife phoned BC yesterday they claimed they couldn't phone Payplan to confirm that we are paying because they don't have an outside line.:???:

If what we say helps you, then please tip the scales.:cool:

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When the wife phoned BC yesterday they claimed they couldn't phone Payplan to confirm that we are paying because they don't have an outside line.:???:


What utter BS, they soon have an outside line to make their threats :rolleyes:

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Thanks all. I'll send baby bear's letter I think, it seems to fit the bill. What do you think I should do about the fact that the bank (rbs) has not responded to my SAR made about a year ago. I heard nothing from the bank and then, three months later recieved a letter from Apex, paid for a while while I was waiting for them to send me CCA's and SAR's. I stopped paying when I didn't receive them, then I received a letter from Fredricksons and now BC. I've been asking them to take me to court for over a year now as I really would like a judge to look at my case. I hope BC tries.

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