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    • Thanks I just had a quick look.  Will study over the w/e My friend does have kids. But it's a really dysfunctional family.  They don't talk.   Many years ago he sold 2 property assets and gave them a lot of money (enough to buy homes w/o loans) .  They've done nothing for him in the last 2 decades. And he altered his will so his new partner gets everything; the kids nothing (more). The 1st form I glanced at - to be deputy - asks for family details.   If I give his kids details I suspect the authorities may say they should get the deputy job instead?  Then  they will steal the money and give nothing to his partner. I can get a copy of the medical assessment  - and get it translated.  If need be.   This has all happened very quickly.  He got sick. And that must have kick-started dementia.   He was fine to hold a detailed conversation 6months ago; now he cant
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H&F parking ticket


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Morning

My son received a parking ticket, which we appealed against, from Hammersmith & Fulham council.

We lost the appeal & then rang the ticket line to pay the £60.00 discounted amount. The bank did not credit the funds to H&F for the fine as they state that it was never requested. My son has been working away so we have only just discovered this mistake.

When asked by H&F to pay the new amount of £180.00 we explained the error - gave them details of when we called the payment line & asked if we could pay the reduced amount.

They have comeback to us now to state that legally we must pay the full £180.00.

Whilst I accept that it is an error on out behalf, do we have any recourse regarding the amount thay are requesting?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanx

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Morning

My son received a parking ticket, which we appealed against, from Hammersmith & Fulham council.

We lost the appeal & then rang the ticket line to pay the £60.00 discounted amount. The bank did not credit the funds to H&F for the fine as they state that it was never requested. My son has been working away so we have only just discovered this mistake.

When asked by H&F to pay the new amount of £180.00 we explained the error - gave them details of when we called the payment line & asked if we could pay the reduced amount.

They have comeback to us now to state that legally we must pay the full £180.00.

Whilst I accept that it is an error on out behalf, do we have any recourse regarding the amount thay are requesting?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanx

 

Did you recieve a notice to owner hector.

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Hi nero12

thanx for the reply

yes - we did receive a notice to owner - I don't believe we have any recourse from the original ticket unfortunately - but it is the amount of increase in the fine (to £180.00) as we were unaware that the £60.00 was not paid (after calling their automated line) that we would like to fight - if we can.

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Hi nero12

thanx for the reply

yes - we did receive a notice to owner - I don't believe we have any recourse from the original ticket unfortunately - but it is the amount of increase in the fine (to £180.00) as we were unaware that the £60.00 was not paid (after calling their automated line) that we would like to fight - if we can.

Unsure about this.

 

Do you have phone records or something to prove you tried to pay at the reduced amount.

 

Did you appeal to the NTO or ignore it Sorry if this is a dafty question mate but the more facts the better.

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OK - from memory as this goes back to before Xmas - I assumed after giving all the details on the automated payment line that the debit card had been accepted for payment - there were funds in the bank to pay the amount & there was no indication that the card had not been accepted. However we have no proof of this other than giving the time & date we called the line to make the payment. The bank have had no request for payment from H&F.

We did appeal the original NTO as we had paid for a pay & display ticket but it had fallen off the dash & was not visible (we did give the time it was purchased & the location of the machine but realistically did not expect this to be upheld as it seemed flakey even when I wrote it on the appeals letter - despite it being true) so I know I am not best placed to fight this.

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Was the P&D ticket adhesive?

 

If you have a telephone bill showing you were on the line were xx minutes it would indicate you were on long enough to complete the process.

 

I'd be appealing to PATAS - remember that you make an declaration that you will tell the truth under penalty of £5k. So if you really thought you'd paid, go for it.

 

In the meantime, show us ALL the paperwork you have so far.

 

We could be appealing regarding the ticket, paperwork and the payment issue, so we need to get all the ammunition we can.

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Thanx for all the advice.

1) unsure if the P&D was adhesive or not - this goes back a long time (mid 2008) so cannot be sure one way or another - also it is a long way from where we live, it was a one-off visit, so again it is not easy to confirm.

2) the phone bill is a possibility - will check to see if that can confirm the call.

3) will get all correspondence together & post it up today - first time so it may take a while

 

thanx again

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Looks like this NTO was issued last summer - a long time ago.

 

Did the person named on the NTO respond with an appeal, within 28 days? If so they are entitled to a response to that appeal - accept or reject.

 

Given the figures being chased now (£180), I'm assuming a Charge Certificate has now been issued.

 

Only the person named on the NTO can deal with this and even then, you can't take the case to adjudication after the Charge Certificate is issued. You can try, but they will likely refuse to hear the case.

 

If the person named never received a rejection letter on their representation (ie a repsonse to the appeal you made) either because it was never delivered or they were away, then there's a procedural issue which can be addressed and they can have the case reverted down by filing certain papers. If they did (remember, it's the person named on the documents - not sure if that's you or your son), but ignored it at the time, then you've slipped up.

 

Can you advise on whether the person named filed the appeal, and if so, whether they got a notice of rejection?

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If the person named never received a rejection letter on their representation (ie a repsonse to the appeal you made) either because it was never delivered or they were away, then there's a procedural issue which can be addressed and they can have the case reverted down by filing certain papers. If they did (remember, it's the person named on the documents - not sure if that's you or your son), but ignored it at the time, then you've slipped up.

 

If, in response to a formal appeal at NtO stage, the appellant does not receive a formal Notice of Rejection from the Council within 56 days, then the appeal is automatically allowed - however spurious the appeal.

 

The NoR must also inform the appellant of how to appeal to the adjudicator.

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Is that so Pat? I wasn't aware of that 56 day rule. Where I live the LA used to have a 3-month backlog with appeals and thousands of reps will have been rejected beyond the 56 days!

 

If that's the case, it's another possible line of defence in this case, depending on the dates involved.

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The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) Representations and Appeals Regulations 2007 R.5

Duty of enforcement authority to which representations are made

 

5.—(1) The enforcement authority may disregard any representations which are received by it after the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the relevant notice to owner was served.

 

 

(2) Where representations are made to an enforcement authority by virtue of regulation 4(1) and in accordance with regulation 4(2), it shall subject to paragraph (1) be the duty of the enforcement authority—

(a) to consider the representations and any supporting evidence which the person making them provides; and

(b) within the period of 56 days beginning with the date on which the representations were served on it, to serve on that person notice of its decision as to whether or not it accepts that—

(i) one or more of the grounds specified in regulation 4(4) applies; or

(ii) there are compelling reasons why, in the particular circumstances of the case, the notice to owner should be cancelled and any sum paid in respect of it should be refunded.

 

 

(3) Where the enforcement authority accepts that a ground specified in regulation 4(4) applies or that there are such compelling reasons it shall—

(a) cancel the notice to owner; and

(b) state in the notice served under paragraph (2)(b) that the notice to owner has been cancelled and at the same time refund any sum paid in relation to the notice.

 

 

(4) The cancellation of a notice to owner under this regulation shall not be taken to prevent the enforcement authority from serving, in accordance with the General Regulations, a fresh notice to owner on another person.

 

 

(5) If the enforcement authority fails to comply with paragraph (2)(b) within the period of 56 days there specified, it shall be deemed for the purposes of these Regulations to have accepted—

(a) that such of the grounds referred to in paragraph (2)(b)(i) as were relied upon in the representations apply; or

(b) in a case where paragraph (2)(b)(ii) is relied upon, that there are compelling reasons of the kind referred to in that paragraph,

and paragraph (3) shall apply accordingly.

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see details that follow from my original post - we thought we had paid the £60.00 - my original question was "can they demand the £180.00 or do I have any recourse to get back to the original fine of £60.00?"

-My son received a parking ticket, which we appealed against, from Hammersmith & Fulham council.

We lost the appeal & then rang the ticket line to pay the £60.00 discounted amount. The bank did not credit the funds to H&F for the fine as they state that it was never requested. My son has been working away so we have only just discovered this mistake.

When asked by H&F to pay the new amount of £180.00 we explained the error - gave them details of when we called the payment line & asked if we could pay the reduced amount.

They have comeback to us now to state that legally we must pay the full £180.00.

Whilst I accept that it is an error on out behalf, do we have any recourse regarding the amount thay are requesting?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - thanx

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Is that so Pat? I wasn't aware of that 56 day rule. Where I live the LA used to have a 3-month backlog with appeals and thousands of reps will have been rejected beyond the 56 days!

 

If that's the case, it's another possible line of defence in this case, depending on the dates involved.

 

Is your LA issuing under the TMA ? it is deciminalised ?

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Yep it's decrimialised. These rules are dated 2007 and I know they now have a turnaround of about a week. (It's Brighton & Hove by the way.)

 

Before 2007 it was several months and for much of 2007 two months was typical, and no doubt some took longer. Don't know when they started to get it right down though.

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Hector - The answer to your question of whether you have recorse depends on the exact chain of events, which is why I raised those specific points. It is crucial to what you can do now.

 

Your original post says when you appealed and failed, you were asked to make a payment of £60, which I believe is the discounted rate. If so, I am assuming this was prior to the Notice to Owner being issued, as the discount does not apply thereafter.

 

Now you are faced with £180, so between then and now a Notice to Owner was issued.

 

This is central to the case - did the person named on the Notice to Owner receive it? If so, did they appeal in response to it within 28 days? If so, did they receive a notice of rejection in 56 days?

 

The answers to these questions will determine whether you have recourse.

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Hector - The answer to your question of whether you have recorse depends on the exact chain of events, which is why I raised those specific points. It is crucial to what you can do now.

 

Your original post says when you appealed and failed, you were asked to make a payment of £60, which I believe is the discounted rate. If so, I am assuming this was prior to the Notice to Owner being issued, as the discount does not apply thereafter.

 

Now you are faced with £180, so between then and now a Notice to Owner was issued.

 

This is central to the case - did the person named on the Notice to Owner receive it? If so, did they appeal in response to it within 28 days? If so, did they receive a notice of rejection in 56 days?

 

The answers to these questions will determine whether you have recourse.

 

 

If the discounted rate is £60, the £180 is charge certificate stage. If the non-discounted rate is £60, then at the charge certificate stage it can only be £90.

 

(In fact, the OP posted the NtO, and £60 is the discounted rate.)

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sorry - I understand now - there was no parking ticket on the car so the first knowledge of the ticket was the NTO (as posted pics) - explained this was the first indication of a ticket & they sent back a rejection letter with the amount of £60.00 to pay within 28 days (which we did)

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