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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Mikey25 v HSBC/Wescot


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Hi everyone,

 

Its has now been 12 + 2 days since I sent a CCA request to both HSBC who I took the loan out with and Wescot who are now managing the account.

 

So far I have received a letter from HSBC dated 1st May stating that my request is being assessed and that they will be in contact in due course. I have also received a letter from Wescot credit services stating that my request has been noted, they will be in touch in due course and that they can confirm my account has been placed on hold???????? I never asked them to place the account on hold. Does this mean that I should stop paying them?

 

Now that it has been 12+2 days should I send them another letter stating that the account is in dispute? Am I right in thinking that once I have done this that I should stop paying them until such time as they supply the CCA?

 

Also I noticed a story in the Sun the other day saying that the banks are trying to get these requests put on hold because they have had so many of them? How will this affect my situation?

 

Also, if anyone has a template of the next letter I should send I'd be very grateful.

 

Thanks.

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Mikey, there is a letter in the following link re non compliance with the CCA request.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.html

 

Whether or not to with hold payments is purely a decision that only you can make.

 

You will find other letter templates in the link in my signature.

 

There is a lot of speculation as to what is happening with the claims at the moment. You might want to read this thread which should help you understand what is going on.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/198059-unenforceability-cases-hold-until.html

 

The truth of the matter is, that the press might just have blown out of proportion what is going to happen.. but there you go. :)

 

HTH

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4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Thanks for the template letter. I have another question though. Currently I am paying my creditors through a debt management company called Gregory Pennington. If I am going to send out account in dispute letters to my creditors should I send a copy of these letters to Gregory Pennington and tell them to stop paying them or should I walk away from Gregory Pennington all together?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Is this a DMP that you pay for ?.

 

From what I read on the forums, DMP's dont particularly care for stopping payments to individual creditors. You may also find that as your nominated 3rd party, the creditors will respond to them and they may not pass on any important correspondence.

 

I cant advise whether to walk away from them or not, although there are free DMP companies such as Payplan and CCCS (they too wont stop paying creditors in respect of non compliance with CCA requests). Would you be in a position to administer your own DMP.

 

There are plenty of template letters and people who are already administering their own plans so you will get plenty of advice.

 

It is of course, always worth asking Gregory Pennington.. see what their response is before making up your mind. :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I don't see why I couldn't administer my own DMP if all that is involved is sending off letters to my creditors with details of my incomings and outgoings. That is of course, if they decide to respond to my CCA request, which so far none of them have.

 

If HSBC have passed my account to Wescot which they did some time ago then do I need to be dealing with HSBC for my CCA etc or will everything be done through Wescot. I sent CCA requests to both of them to be on the safe side but neither one have sent the agreement.

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You may well find that once you start administering your own DMP that you start to get letters from all and sundry, so in the initial stages you will have quite a lot of letter writing to do.

 

It is unfortunate that as you are paying them, they are probably just ignoring you.

 

It is usual to send the CCA request to the company to whom you are paying your money. They should, contact the OC and request this. If they havent then a non compliance letter (from the link in my signature) should be sent.

 

If they dont reply to that then a complaint to the OFT is in order.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/50-complaint-in-respect-of-dca-threat-re-expired-debt/101-complaint-in-respect-of-invalid-cca-agreement.html

 

Here you would amend "invalid" to none at all.

 

It is in your own interests to send letters via at the very least recorded deliverly. However, if cost is a real issue then at least get a free proof of posting from the post office and attach it to a copy of the letter.

 

There are other ways of asking for the CCA which dont involve sending money.. they are detailed in the following links. Do please read the threads thoroughly before going down these routes though.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

 

The following link is the story of one CAGer who took it all the way and won

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish.html

 

HTH

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi everyone,

 

I have today sent off my account in dispute letter to RBS and twice for 2 seperate accounts to Wescot. I have also sent a letter to Gregory Pennington informing them that I wish to terminate my debt management plan with them and to request that they do not send any further payments to the creditors named on my account.

 

I just wanted to ask what the next stage is and are the creditors likely to take me to court? I only ask because I have never been in that situation before and the reality of maybe ending up in court is a bit worrying.

 

Thanks

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Hi everyone,

 

I have today sent off my account in dispute letter to RBS and twice for 2 seperate accounts to Wescot. I have also sent a letter to Gregory Pennington informing them that I wish to terminate my debt management plan with them and to request that they do not send any further payments to the creditors named on my account.

 

I just wanted to ask what the next stage is and are the creditors likely to take me to court? I only ask because I have never been in that situation before and the reality of maybe ending up in court is a bit worrying.

 

Thanks

 

Hmm, now that is the million dollar question. You will almost certainly receive letters that will imply they will. If the account is in dispute then there are certain things a Creditor / DCA are not supposed to do and enforcement action is one of them.

 

If you post here each time you receive a letter from them, then someone will talk you through what to do next.

 

One thing you must NOT do is to engage in conversation with them on the phone should they attempt to make contact in that way. Keep a pen and pad by the phone, record dates, name of person calling and a brief outline of conversation. If you refuse to go through the security questions then they should not continue with the call. If they write saying they want you to phone them, add a paragraph to your next letter to them.

 

"I wish to keep all communication between us in writing. This protects me in the event of litigation."

 

One trick is to write to you giving you minimum time to contact them before their next intended action.. do not fall for it. It is your right to communicate in writing.

 

Check out a few threads in the forums for Wescot and HSBC, see how other CAGers are faring. Check out the legal success forums as well:D

 

I have dealt with Wescots, I found once you pointed out there was a dispute they backed off pretty quickly.

 

You should write to any other creditors you are continuing to pay advising that you are now managing your own DMP.

 

Your thread title says HSBC, but you say that you have written to RBS ?.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Yes, sorry. My main loan and credit card were with HSBC but these have been passed to Wescot while I was on the DMP. I also had a credit card with RBS. I originally CCA'd HSBC twice, Wescot twice and RBS once.

 

I now realise that as Wescot are dealing with the HSBC accounts that I don't need to contact HSBC. Therefore I have sent dispute letters to Wescot and to RBS. These are my only creditors and as all of them have failed to respond with the CCA's that I requested and they have all received dispute letters I shouldn't need to pay anybody through a DMP at the moment.

 

Fortunately, none of them have my phone number at the moment so hopefully I shouldn't receive any phone calls from any of them. Just hope Gregory Pennington don't decide to pass on my details.

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Hi Mikey, that is excellent news that these people dont have your telephone number. I would think that Gregory Pennington could get himself into hot water if they were to pass that on. :)

 

Right, I am with the plot now. Once you receive stuff back from RBS, then start a separate thread to keep things tidy, just as you would keep a separate file for them at home with all the paperwork.

 

From now on, any letters you receive.. keep the envelopes they come in. Staple them to the letter.

 

Do NOT sign any letter with your normal signature. Either Print it or use a digital signature.

 

Or if you can make your regular signature significantly different then do that. Always keep a copy of it if you do it this way so you can see if it turns up on documents.

 

Just yell if you need any help.. there are quite a lot of CAGers who will hear you:D

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

 

Received my first letter back on this today. Ironically the letter I have received is from HSBC. As you can see from the above posts I originally CCA'd HSBC and Wescot who are now dealing with my HSBC accounts.

 

I didn't realise at the time that I only really needed to CCA Wescot. Anyway, I have since sent an in dispute letter to Wescot regarding the account but didn't bother sending one to HSBC as I didn't think they would have anything to do with it now.

 

Today HSBC have sent me this letter along with a copy of the letter that I originally sent to them.

 

What should I do? Ignore it and wait for a response from Wescot or should I reply to Hsbc?

 

Thanks

hsbc letter edited.jpg

hsbc letter sent.jpg

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Mickey, the images are too small to read. Please repost.

Please note that I am not a solicitor or legally trained. The advice I give is from my own personal experience based on my own personal circumstance. If you choose to follow any advice I may give, please make sure you understand the implications of following that advice. :-)

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Put the originals on a service like tinypic and then post the links here.

 

TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting

Please note that I am not a solicitor or legally trained. The advice I give is from my own personal experience based on my own personal circumstance. If you choose to follow any advice I may give, please make sure you understand the implications of following that advice. :-)

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You could wait for Wescot to reply, but personally I would go after the original creditor for the CCA, in this case HSBC.

 

Now there are two ways of replying. One is to use a letter from here (can't think of a link off the top of my head). Basically, you state that they are happy to send statements, demands, letters to your address with this verification etc, etc, so they should be able to identify you satisfactorily from here and no signature should be necessary.

 

Alternatively, you can read this guide to digital signatures http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/110578-digital-signature-guide.html

 

Good luck with HSBC. I am fighting them regarding a credit card. They responded to my CCA and I was using a digital signature. Not that what they sent me, was worth the effort.

Please note that I am not a solicitor or legally trained. The advice I give is from my own personal experience based on my own personal circumstance. If you choose to follow any advice I may give, please make sure you understand the implications of following that advice. :-)

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The problem is that I moved house recently and had no reason to give them my new address as Wescot were dealing with the account. Therefore, I can't really get them for sending statements etc as they haven't been. I'll have a look at the digital signature thing and see if I can do that.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

 

I am a little bit concerned after just having a conversation with my debt management company.

 

Just over 2 weeks ago I sent them a letter via recorded delivery informing them that I wish to end my debt management program and that no further payments should be sent to my creditors as the accounts are in dispute.

 

When my bank statement came today I realised that the DMP had still taken 2 payments since the date the letter was delivered and passed them on to the creditors. I called the DMP and informed them of the letter that I had sent and they vigorously denied receiving it. Anyway, after about 30 mins of them trying to convince me that trying to write off a loan as unenforceable was a bad idea they told me that there was an article in the Mail on Sunday which stated that all court cases relating to unenforceable CCA's have been frozen. Is this true? I know that they were probably just trying to get me to stay with them as they make money from me each month but I just wanted to check.

 

Also, is it true that once I stop making payments to the creditors that they can start adding interest and charges on to the account eventhough the account is in dispute?

 

I'm still waiting for Wescot to reply to my In dispute letter and haven't bothered chasing up Hsbc as the accounts are now with Wescot and Hsbc were demanding a signature with the CCA request.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

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Mikey, the cases haven't been stayed. See here for the full details http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/198059-unenforceability-cases-hold-until.html

 

I believe, that if an account is in dispute, that they cannot add interest or charges, regardless of whether you are paying them or not. It is stated quite a lot in some of the template 'in dispute' letters on here.

 

Whether the banks adhere to the no interest bit is very debateable.

Please note that I am not a solicitor or legally trained. The advice I give is from my own personal experience based on my own personal circumstance. If you choose to follow any advice I may give, please make sure you understand the implications of following that advice. :-)

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If the banks do start to add interest and charges as the debt management company told me would happen within 48 hours what do I do? Wescot have been sent 2 in dispute letters for the 2 accounts that they hold after failing to send any CCA in over a month. Are Wescot even allowed to add interest and charges as they are not a bank? Would I need to complain to the OFT or send Wescot another letter?

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Personally, if it was me, I would simply stop paying them until they produced the agreement. I would ignore all further correspondence from them until such time they produce the CCA or proceed to court. If they proceeded to court, I would then use CPR31.16 to attempt to get a copy of the agreement.

 

Legally under CPUTR2008, they cannot charge interest while the account is in dispute. And, so what if they are charging interest, they cannot make you pay until they produce an agreement, and you could argue against the interest since your first letter of dispute based on CPUTR2008 anyway.

 

Have a read through this letter http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

Edited by Dinkjames
wrong term

Please note that I am not a solicitor or legally trained. The advice I give is from my own personal experience based on my own personal circumstance. If you choose to follow any advice I may give, please make sure you understand the implications of following that advice. :-)

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Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations - Regulated by the OFT, I understand.

Please note that I am not a solicitor or legally trained. The advice I give is from my own personal experience based on my own personal circumstance. If you choose to follow any advice I may give, please make sure you understand the implications of following that advice. :-)

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OK, thanks. I'm just a bit worried about them adding on a load of interest and charges and then later on producing a valid agreement. Also, if I was to make an offer to pay back a percentage of the debt, would that have to be paid in one lump sum or could it still be spread out in installments?

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