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    • Really sorry this is a long story. I Ordered and paid for bathroom furniture on the 8th of December 2020. was told it would take a month which was why i needed to. Pay in full understandable. Month later come no bathroom stuff and no contact what so ever. Phoned them chased my order up myself. The sales manager said it would be here a week later but sink and vanity unit would be another month. February come no contact off them and no goods or delivery. Tried to phone them for yet another month with no luck what so ever. Finally got in contact with them after a number of emails. told me order was here and will be delivered next week. Delivery come on the 23rd of march with radiator and valves missing. Phoned up the manager again he said it should be there if not the driver must of not put it on the van so will get it delivered soon as. Yet again no contact until i went in the shop when it opened due to covid asking for it. When the manager had a look in the stock room he said that he can not find it so must not be here but then showed me another one that he said was bigger and more expensive but same colour obviously off someone else's order told me i could just take that. I replied that i just wanted the one that i ordered really. Went back in the showroom and checked the order on the system and said it should be here. I reminded him about a conversation where he said on the phone that it was here but the driver must not of put it on the van which he replied with that he couldnt remember that conversation or saying that then turned around to me and said that they have been issues with his boss or the owner who keeps buying property to do up and takes stock out of the warehouse for the property which at that stage i was very shocked. The manager then said he will order me a new one that would be delivered tomorrow and will phone me to let me know. Tomorrow come no phone call and no product. I was sent the wrong vanity unit that i ordered yet again manager made up a bull story that he told me when i ordered it that the supplier didnt have it in so ordered a 1 draw and not 2 draw even though the 2 draw one was on my receipt 🤔. I put a review on Facebook about the company They are blaming covid for the rubbish customer service and offered £50 and free toilet holder on the ground i take the review off the director phoned and saiid the review was unfair and and shocking then said that stock is stock its the companies until it gets delivered but yet i had paid in full for my order. What am i entitled to do here.
    • so all speculative invoices since that date should be refunded....ruddy fleecers!   dx  
    • Well if you have got crime reference number that's a good start. You should be recording your calls and you should not rely on calls which are apparently recorded by others – especially not the police who will always be very reluctant to disclose any information even under a statutory request. When you are on the phone to anybody you should make sure that if there is something you are not clear about you should ask them to repeat it so that you can make notes. Read our customer services guide. The police are correct – as I have already pointed out – the car belongs to you and so if it is sold to somebody else then it is stolen. If it is not given to you then it is stolen. You should always in all your dealings with anybody refer to the fact that your car has been stolen.
    • Incidentally, a brief word – for you, but also for anyone else who visits this thread. It's a word about insurance. By requiring you to take out insurance, they are effectively asking you to protect yourself against their own negligence, their own breach of contract or the criminality of their own employees if stuff get stolen. This is extraordinary and it is part of the culture of the removal business and I have no idea how this culture came about and it is now accepted so meekly as the natural way of things by people who use removal services. There is exactly the same culture in courier services so that companies such as DPD, DHL, UPS – and particularly Hermes require their customers to pay for additional protection in case the service that they have already contracted for and paid for is not carried out. Amazing! It doesn't stop there. Extended warranties. If you go into any Currys PC World, if you buy any computer or washing machine or fridge from them or anywhere else, some salesman will chase after you and ask you if you want to buy an extended warranty. So for extra money you can buy an insurance which will apparently cover you in case the item you have bought breaks down within a certain amount of time – normally three years or five years. Incredible! You already have perfectly good statutory rights which will cover you for most of those situations over the foreseeable reasonably expected life of the item you buy. What they are all doing – whether they are removals, couriers, sellers of white goods and electronic goods, is effectively getting you to pay for rights which you already have under statute or under ordinary contract law.  
    • Thanks. How much did you pay for the insurance? AnyVan is declining responsibility because they say that the items did not go missing "in transit". They are wrong. Clearly the removal company took charge of the items and disassembled them. This must be the case because you have received part of the item and it is only part of the item which is missing and that means that they were already under the control of the removal company. In my view that puts the items squarely "in transit". I am quite certain that no judge would simply say that "in transit" refers only to the time that your items are in a removal van. This is far too limited. And in fact I notice that in the summary of terms which you have linked us to:     Clearly insurance cover applies from the moment that the collection begins right until the delivery is finished. However, even if they accepted this point, there are still other ways that they can say that the insurance does not apply to you Looking at the policy which you have linked us to, I see that first of all there is in excess of £50 and that means you have to pay the first £50 of any claim. According to you, you have only lost about £35. Are you saying that the entire book case is worth £20? It seems very little to me. The second thing is that they say that lost items are not insured unless they are listed with their value. Presumably that hasn't happened in your case. On that basis, it seems to me that the insurance doesn't cover you anyway. I do agree that I think you've been treated disgracefully and I don't think that the lack of insurance is any bar to making a claim. If you would like a bit of fun, then we can help you make a small claim in the County Court to recover all of your losses directly from them for their breach of contract/negligence. Of course they won't be used to that kind of treatment – but do you really care? The chances of succeeding if you are prepared to go to the Small Claims Court are better than 90%, in my view. You would have to play a claim fee that you would recover that when you won your case. Of course in the event that you lost, then you would lose that claim fee and also a hearing fee if it got that far. Frankly, for this kind of money I would imagine that they would put their hands up once you issue the papers and they realise that you are serious and it was going to cost them much more money to defend it then simply to pay you out. In addition to getting your money back and delivering a slap, you would acquire transferable skills so that you could confidently in the future sue anyone who got in your way. What's not to like?
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
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IM vs AMEX - Help with defence

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Hi IM, Just pm'd you my case details for the version you submit to the Respondent.


From a quick glance it looks good. I would consider replacing the second sentence section which currently reads


"who has made an appeal which has been granted by"




"where an appeal has been granted by"


Also, be sure to put cc. District Judge, [XX] County Court

at the bottom of the letter.


Make sure you send a copy of the letter to your Court. by registered post or by hand. Check the Court receives it. Also Register or Special Deliver it to the Respondents solicitors.

Edited by shakespeare62

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Just wondering if you should change the first line of your second para to read


"The above case deals with the same points that have been raised in my defence..." ?


The difference is subtle, but I think it implies that it deals with the Respondents arguments as well which are essentially the same


Hopefully you'll get some more suggestions / comments before you submit it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all


Sent off the Stay request to MDR with many thanks to Shakey for his help, and we've now received a reply from them stating that they are surprized we know of Shakey's case and want the following information as to why we want an adjournment:


1. Why do we think our case is the same as Shakey's?


2. If Shakey is unsuccessful, how will we move forward with our case?


They have also stated that they want my witness statement as it is so late and they think I am trying to obtain an adjournmet to delay my witness statement.


As the hearing is coming up soon, any advice would be appreciated.


Many thanks,



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First reaction would be to tell 'em to p off and work it out for themselves but............... with all things not being equal I'd respond something along the lines of:-


Dear Mdr


It is more than apparent that there are striking similarities between the 2 cases cited.


Your client has (as above) proceeded with a part 7 action without first conforming to said part of civil procedure rules - inter alia, the evidencing of a duly executed agreement compliant with the Consumer credit act 1974 complete with prescribed terms.


With regard to any future instruction to your client and in their abeyance of the above, I am unfortunately unable to advise in this matter.


Up yours etc etc



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You could also add something along of the lines of


Obviously your clients are very anxious for my case to proceed before the outcome of the Shakespeare...... appeal on 25th May, but this case is clearly relevant to my Defence and therefore it is wholly reasonable that your clients should agree a stay until after that date.


You could also say you will make an application directly to the court if they don't agree, but for the moment I'd leave that until you get the reply to the first letter.



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Thanks Gezwee and DD :)


I will construct the letter today and get it in the post tomorrow.


Shakespeare sent me the following to add to the letter;


1) I am are aware that Shakespeare was granted permission to appeal on all points by His Honour Judge XXXXX who stated the appeal had a realistic prospect of success.

2) My Default Notice, covers the same issues being dealt with by Shakespeare's appeal. Specifically that the claimant issued a Default Notice route and terminated the agreement; That the claim is fatally flawed due to the Default Notice which allegedly failed to allow 14 statutory days to rectify a breach.

3) That the Default Notice failed to contain mandatory prescribed text required by the Regulations

4) That the Default Notice contained penalty charges alternatively unfair charges under UTCCR 1999.

5) That the authenticity of the alleged original agreement is disputed and that it is undergoing detailed forensic examination with a full report to be produced to the Court.

I understand that the outcome of Shakespeare's appeal would be persuasive upon my case. Should it proceed to a full trial in the High Court, the result would have a binding effect upon a lower Court.


Any further comments would be appreciated.


Many thanks,



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Even better, but in 2) why do you have to say ..."the Default Notice which allegedly failed ..." ? I'm sure there must be a reason, but I would just put "failed" as I think it makes you look stronger to MdR. However, I stand to be corrected. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys


I sent MDR a letter with the information they requested regarding my request for a stay on the claim pending the outcome of Shakespeares case.


To date I have not heard back from them so I rang the Court today and they basically said that if I don't hear from MDR soon, I need to come in and pay for a stay (£40) as the hearing is fast approaching.


I have also not filed my witness statement at the moment as I was hoping the case would be stayed.


Any advice would be appreciated.





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I think you should fax or call (if you want to) MdR and tell them that unless you get immediate confirmation that they are agreeing to a stay you will be filing an application first thing in the morning, which obviously they will then receive by DX, and will also be applying for costs if you have to have a hearing as a result.


I'm mentioning the DX because the solicitor in the other side in my case tried to pretend he had only received the notification the day before the hearing so wasn't given enough notice which the court said was rubbish because it had been DX'd on the very same day.


They are supposed to be given three clear days notice of any application so you are pushing it a bit, so need to contact MdR this afternoon, and get that application in first thing. You can argue that you were waiting for their reply.



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Thanks DD


Just done the fax to them that I need to know asap (by 10am tomorrow) or I will be filing through court.


Keep you posted.



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Hi Guys


Just to let you know that MDR accepted the adjournment request pending the outcome of Shakespeares case and both parties signed the 'Consent Order' for adjournment. :)


I went and handed in a copy and MDR faxed a copy to court of Friday. I rang the court this morning for an update and MDR have told the court in writing that in light of the adjournment 'Consent Order', they will not be attending the scheduled hearing.


Thanks guys.



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