Validity of claims management companies? Moved from "Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice"

[Tricky Dickie]

Theres many differences of opinion and trains of thought.

Its no secret that there are those who have jumped on the bandwagon-but many are under investigation and the FSA and MOJ have tried to make it more difficult for those seeking to make a fast buck with false promises.

 

Insofar as the questions of determining who is right when it comes to clarification on the CCA-we are just going to have to wait and see what comes out of the proposed test case run of selected cases-but this thread shows that many have a good understanding...the good thing is probably knowing that there appears to be a determined effort to get this cleared up sooner rather than later-so hopefully it will not be another 3 year test case.

 

I have absolutely no confidence in the FSA and MoJ dealing with rogue companies who claim they can write off debts.

The MoJ are not properly resourced to properly regulate this situation which is now attracting thousands of companies jumping on the band wagon and as far as I can see are not even attempting to pick out the good from the bad.

 

 

Instead what they are trying to do is to imply that every claims company is incorrectly claiming to be able to wipe out debts using the legal system.Lots of people quote the MoJ warning on its website http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/newsrelease170209a. clearly states that companies which are misleadng the consumer about being able to wipe out debts when they can not do so will be shut down.

 

 

If there are companies out there doing just that why don't the MoJ shut them down?There is a paradox here that needs to be appreciated.If it is impossible for any company to wipe out consumer credit agreements as I have described then why would the MoJ ever issue a registration to any company claiming to do this.

 

 

The only explanation I can find is that it must be possible for SOME companies to be able to do what they claim and wipe out SOME debts.OK so if some companies can legitimately wipe out debts but the MoJ is clearly aware that some can not but claim they can then why does the MoJ not shut them down?

 

 

Possible reasons:

 

 

1.Lack of resources

 

 

2.Incompetence

 

 

3.Maybe it suits some people for large numbers of bogus [problem] firms to exist,let me explain what I mean by this.If it is indeed possible for SOME companies to wipe out consumer credit agreements then this is very big trouble for the banks and because as we have seen previously when the banks have a problem they have to be bailed out by the Government then it is potentially big trouble for them too.

 

 

If the MoJ shut down all the bogus [problem] firms and properly regulated the legitimate ones then these firms will make lots of money from this and proliferate when getting peoples debts wiped out.Once there is firm evidence of debts being wiped out then millions of claims will be put in and the banks will be in danger of collapse(again) and the Government will once again have to bail them out.

 

 

Maybe the Government has thought about shutting down the legitimate firms to stop them using the legal system to wipe out consumer debts but the problem is that the companies have their legal advisers who would use the law to fight the Governments attempts to close them and the result would be widespread publicity about the Government trying to illegally close down legitimate companies which would publicise the fact that such companies exist and what they do.

 

 

So lets say the MoJ allow the bogus firms to proliferate in the full knowledge of what they are about but continue to spout the rhetoric about closing them down or are just too incompetent or under resourced to take action.No one would be surprised about that would they?

 

 

Ok so the bogus firms outnumber the legitimate ones many times and the negative experiences that consumers have outnumbers the positive ones by a massive amount then the general public opinion will tend to tar all the firms,good and bad with the same brush which will discourage a large proportion of people from proceeding with a claim even if presented with concrete evidence of success.

 

 

Result-The number of claims being handled by legitimate firms is restricted to much smaller numbers which can be handled by the lenders nice and quietly behind the screen of bogus claims companies without starting an avalanch of claims which positive publicity would achieve.

 

 

Unfortunately this results in very large numbers of people being ripped off by scams but hey you can't blame the Government,you were warned by the MoJ weren't you?.

 

 

Conspiracy theory?,maybe any comments would be appreciated

[MARTIN3030]

To be fair they HAVE already taken away licences from quite a few already.

In fact CAG have reported a few and some of those have already gone,or are on borrowed time.

 

The other thing that has emerged, is that there are some of those who were initially maybe thinking it was a good idea to use these companies-who have had second thoughts about doing so-because of the publicity that has been given to the subject.

We have to remember that those who are active on sites such as CAG are able to make informed judgements more easily than say someone who is less computer active and has responded to a newspaper advert or flyer that has dropped through the letterbox along with those pizza and kebab shop leaflets.!

[Baggio]

It must also be remembered that not ALL claims companies are out to ripp the client off.

 

Otherwise.... how come the Ministry of Justice has not shut them down?

 

This argument needs to be balanced and fair.

 

This site does very well, out of advetising on it... the more people click on here, the more they make... other adds on etc

 

And good luck to the site, they deserve it for all their hard work.

 

Through the advice of this forum i managed to have a fair chunk of one agreement, which was flawed under CCA 74, wiped off and a Full and Final settlement reached.

 

But i know of a relative who, after paying a mere 288 quid got a legal team to quash an ENTIRE 12 odd grand agreement.

 

He filled in 3 or 4 forms and that was that.

 

When i got most of mine written off, i wrote endless letters here there and everywhere and the banks NEVER take joe public seriously, they will mess us about.

 

However, when they get a letter from a Solictior, they buck up their ideas.

 

So... 2 choses DIY and plenty of time and stress... but FREE

 

or chose a REPUTABLE Claims Company, pay a small fee and have it done for you by legal professionals.

 

Always good to keep the argument FAIR and BALANCED... otherwise it seems like an agenda is in place.

[vjohn82]

It must also be remembered that not ALL claims companies are out to ripp the client off.

 

Otherwise.... how come the Ministry of Justice has not shut them down?

 

This argument needs to be balanced and fair.

 

This site does very well, out of advetising on it... the more people click on here, the more they make... other adds on etc

 

And good luck to the site, they deserve it for all their hard work.

 

Through the advice of this forum i managed to have a fair chunk of one agreement, which was flawed under CCA 74, wiped off and a Full and Final settlement reached.

 

But i know of a relative who, after paying a mere 288 quid got a legal team to quash an ENTIRE 12 odd grand agreement.

 

He filled in 3 or 4 forms and that was that.

 

When i got most of mine written off, i wrote endless letters here there and everywhere and the banks NEVER take joe public seriously, they will mess us about.

 

However, when they get a letter from a Solictior, they buck up their ideas.

 

So... 2 choses DIY and plenty of time and stress... but FREE

 

or chose a REPUTABLE Claims Company, pay a small fee and have it done for you by legal professionals.

 

Always good to keep the argument FAIR and BALANCED... otherwise it seems like an agenda is in place.

 

 

If you can do it yourself for free, why would you want to pay someone to do it for you? I thought the whole purpose was to get "yourself" debt free? A lot of the companies seem to be making the claim that you get a settlement by getting your agreement cancelled... the usual no-win-no-fee garbage and such like.

 

In my opinion unless you can't read then you should be doing it yourself.

[star_scream]

I have absolutely no confidence in the FSA and MoJ dealing with rogue companies who claim they can write off debts.

The MoJ are not properly resourced to properly regulate this situation which is now attracting thousands of companies jumping on the band wagon and as far as I can see are not even attempting to pick out the good from the bad.

 

 

Instead what they are trying to do is to imply that every claims company is incorrectly claiming to be able to wipe out debts using the legal system.Lots of people quote the MoJ warning on its website http://www.justice.gov.uk/news/newsrelease170209a. clearly states that companies which are misleadng the consumer about being able to wipe out debts when they can not do so will be shut down.

 

If there are companies out there doing just that why don't the MoJ shut them down?There is a paradox here that needs to be appreciated.If it is impossible for any company to wipe out consumer credit agreements as I have described then why would the MoJ ever issue a registration to any company claiming to do this.

 

 

The only explanation I can find is that it must be possible for SOME companies to be able to do what they claim and wipe out SOME debts.OK so if some companies can legitimately wipe out debts but the MoJ is clearly aware that some can not but claim they can then why does the MoJ not shut them down?

 

 

Possible reasons:

 

 

1.Lack of resources

 

 

2.Incompetence

 

 

3.Maybe it suits some people for large numbers of bogus [problem] firms to exist,let me explain what I mean by this.If it is indeed possible for SOME companies to wipe out consumer credit agreements then this is very big trouble for the banks and because as we have seen previously when the banks have a problem they have to be bailed out by the Government then it is potentially big trouble for them too.

 

 

If the MoJ shut down all the bogus [problem] firms and properly regulated the legitimate ones then these firms will make lots of money from this and proliferate when getting peoples debts wiped out.Once there is firm evidence of debts being wiped out then millions of claims will be put in and the banks will be in danger of collapse(again) and the Government will once again have to bail them out.

 

 

Maybe the Government has thought about shutting down the legitimate firms to stop them using the legal system to wipe out consumer debts but the problem is that the companies have their legal advisers who would use the law to fight the Governments attempts to close them and the result would be widespread publicity about the Government trying to illegally close down legitimate companies which would publicise the fact that such companies exist and what they do.

 

 

So lets say the MoJ allow the bogus firms to proliferate in the full knowledge of what they are about but continue to spout the rhetoric about closing them down or are just too incompetent or under resourced to take action.No one would be surprised about that would they?

 

 

Ok so the bogus firms outnumber the legitimate ones many times and the negative experiences that consumers have outnumbers the positive ones by a massive amount then the general public opinion will tend to tar all the firms,good and bad with the same brush which will discourage a large proportion of people from proceeding with a claim even if presented with concrete evidence of success.

 

 

Result-The number of claims being handled by legitimate firms is restricted to much smaller numbers which can be handled by the lenders nice and quietly behind the screen of bogus claims companies without starting an avalanch of claims which positive publicity would achieve.

 

 

Unfortunately this results in very large numbers of people being ripped off by scams but hey you can't blame the Government,you were warned by the MoJ weren't you?.

 

 

Conspiracy theory?,maybe any comments would be appreciated

 

I know of one claims company based in Blackpool thaT HAVE HAD OVER 40 COMPLAINTS against them sent to the MOJ. The result? NOTHING!!!

 

The MOJ just want their fees and don't care about misledaing the consumer

[Baggio]

If you can do it yourself for free, why would you want to pay someone to do it for you? I thought the whole purpose was to get "yourself" debt free? A lot of the companies seem to be making the claim that you get a settlement by getting your agreement cancelled... the usual no-win-no-fee garbage and such like.

 

In my opinion unless you can't read then you should be doing it yourself.

 

Maybe somebody does not have the time or inclination to fight a legal battle against a bank and their barristers?

 

Maybe 288 is cheap enough for somebody to be able to afford the piece of mind?

 

Maybe i should go out and kill animals myself, butcher them etc, instead of paying a butcher to do it for me?

 

Maybe i should bake my own bread instead of going to the bakers?

 

Maye i should not pay my accountant to do my tax return, its pretty simple, i could do it myself.... i can read....?

 

Catch my drift?

 

Each to their own, it took me STRESS bigtime, coming on here, posting this posting that, waiting for a response etc etc

 

filing at county court...i fi could have paid a mere 288 quid do have all that done for me without any stres....

 

its a no brainer... of course, you must be able to afford 288 quid.

[MARTIN3030]

Thats debatable of course-how many Caggers take any notice of letters sent by Solicitors acting supposedly for DCAs ?

It can work both ways.

 

There other ways to report these firms as well as via the FSA and MOJ.

In one case I recall one of them was reported to the Advertising Standards Authority.

Theres also the 2008 unfair terms regs.

 

I agree that funding needs to be dealt with to address the markets now.

In the last 18 months there has been a raft of new guidelines and legislation introduced in all areas from Banking Codes to Credit Card issuers,from Debt Collection to Insurance.

Funding for the OFT is set to be reduced year on year-and they have admitted that they expect to see a reduction in revenues as applications for Consumer Credit licences fall.

They also appear to have difficulty in maintaining staffing,which they openly admit in their reports.

Awareness is always going to primarily rely on ordinary consumers reporting and complaining.

If there is an apathy that nothing can really bring on change,then no one can complain if they dont see it.

If ever proof were needed that people power CAN invoke change then you need look no further than some of the results we have seen because of it in the last 2 years.

[Tricky Dickie]

If you can do it yourself for free, why would you want to pay someone to do it for you? I thought the whole purpose was to get "yourself" debt free? A lot of the companies seem to be making the claim that you get a settlement by getting your agreement cancelled... the usual no-win-no-fee garbage and such like.

 

In my opinion unless you can't read then you should be doing it yourself.

 

 

Thats an interesting argument and one which I am sure many businesses such as gardeners car washes vehicle repairers bakers etc would take issue with.

There are lots of people who would not be able or be comfortable with doing it themselves and so have no means of redress other than claims companies.

Lots of others would simply prefer to pay someone else to do it for them just as people pay for other services as long as they have confidence that the people they appoint do it properly.

Do you have an objection to someone exercising that option other thyan the fact that they can do it themselves?

Would you argue that all bakeries should be shut down as everyone has an oven and can learn to bake themselves?

[Baggio]

Thats an interesting argument and one which I am sure many businesses such as gardeners car washes vehicle repairers bakers etc would take issue with.

There are lots of people who would not be able or be comfortable with doing it themselves and so have no means of redress other than claims companies.

Lots of others would simply prefer to pay someone else to do it for them just as people pay for other services as long as they have confidence that the people they appoint do it properly.

Do you have an objection to someone exercising that option other thyan the fact that they can do it themselves?

Would you argue that all bakeries should be shut down as everyone has an oven and can learn to bake themselves?

 

EXACTLY.

[angry cat]

This is about choice!

 

If an individual is either to lazy, or does not have the ability, then a reputable legal claims company may be an option...but the costs must be made clear to individual(s)

One could end up paying out more than the a value of the alleged debt;

Or, the amount that might be arranged in a full and final.

 

Having spent almost 4 years as an apprentice on this and other consumer websites. I would never consider going to a claims company.

Having said that, I have and will obtain (more) advice from solicitors/Barristers.

 

At the end of the day;

you pays your money and you takes your choice.

 

AC

[Tricky Dickie]

what test case?

 

people are being hoodwinked by the dis-info being peddled in the press.

 

akin to the Daily Mail's now infamous 2006 piece about deluded consumers trying reclaiming "PPI and unfair bank charges"

 

When will joe public wake up !!!!

 

B I agree with you that people are being hoodwinked by the press but I fear it will be a long time until they see the truth.

This site offers a really valuable service but more is needed to benefit the vast majority of consumers.

Most people just can not break free from the conditioning they have had from birth to believe the media,political system and financial institutions unconditionally.

As an experiment why don't you take Judge Halberts judgement on this thread and try showing it to a thousand people and tell them they could possibly have their own debts wiped out,reposession orders,CCJ's etc cancelled and see how many takers you get.

If you get one you will be lucky and thats the problem.

For someone to benefit from this knowledge they first have to find it then they have to deal with a whole lifetime of being brainwashed about paying your debts back etc together with the disbelief and scorn of family and friends.

Then they have to stand up to the big bad wolf all alone albeit with advice from the very knowledgeable people on here whist at the back of their minds they are worried about ending up with huge legal bills,losing their house,ending up with a bad credit record etc.

Is it any wonder that only a tiny percentage of the population have evn tried to fight the lenders?

What needs to happen for the benefit of the vast majority is for hundreds of thousands if not millions of cases to be taken forward and that will only happen at the hands of the claims companies many of which are crooks(see my earlier posts).

What would benefit the vast majority of consumers most is to have reliable information about any legitimate claims companies with a real track record so that they could make an informed choice about using his forum and DIY or using a reliable company to do it for them.

Incidentally the question of cost will be a moot point shortly as there will be many claims companies offering their services for free.

[angry cat]

Prior to 2005, banks were flogging their Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) with little or, no regulation. Massive commissions were being paid out and in reality there was no duty of care towards the customers, customers were sold the PPI alongside Loans, Credit Cards etc;

The Payment Protection Racket was commission driven!!!

 

Now it would appear the same thing could be happening with Claims Management Firms, who tought for introducers;

Independant Financial Advisors;

Mortgage Brokers;

etc., who are paid commissions...

 

Thus, all and sundry jumped on the bandwagon:

Money, Money, Money.

 

The question is, where does that leave the vulnerable consumer?

 

AC

[Tricky Dickie]

Prior to 2005, banks were flogging their Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) with little or, no regulation. Massive commissions were being paid out and in reality there was no duty of care towards the customers, customers were sold the PPI alongside Loans, Credit Cards etc;

The Payment Protection Racket was commission driven!!!

 

Now it would appear the same thing could be happening with Claims Management Firms, who tought for introducers;

Independant Financial Advisors;

Mortgage Brokers;

etc., who are paid commissions...

 

Thus, all and sundry jumped on the bandwagon:

Money, Money, Money.

 

 

The question is, where does that leave the vulnerable consumer?

 

AC

 

 

As I said before it leaves the consumer needing informed advice to make an informed decision.

Like it or not claims companies are here to stay and are the best chance for the vast majority of consumers to receive justice.

Who better than CAG to monitor and inform the public about the good and bad claims firms?

[angry cat]

:

Like it or not claims companies are here to stay and are the best chance for the vast majority of consumers to receive justice."

 

They may be but some need to pull their socks up, if they don't then some will be closed down!

 

Treat consumers Fairly...!

 

The whole Financial Industry and associated is a Cesspit.

 

AC

[Tricky Dickie]

:

Like it or not claims companies are here to stay and are the best chance for the vast majority of consumers to receive justice."

 

They may be but some need to pull their socks up, if they don't then some will be closed down!

 

Treat consumers Fairly...!

 

The whole Financial Industry and associated is a Cesspit.

 

AC

 

I agree that most of the claims companies are crooks and should be closed down but the MoJ and FSA will not close them down,there are companies who have been advertising for the best part of a year with '100% success guaranteed every debt wiped out in 6 weeks' and they are still taking cases and my bet is they will still be in business 12 months form now(see my previous posts on this subject)

What consumers need is an action group to look after their interests,gee I might just patent that idea

[MARTIN3030]

"What consumers need is an action group to look after their interests."..

 

erm I think that you might be missing a certain 200,000 + peeps who are on the same wavelength and decided to join CAG...with those very interests in mind-their 2 million posts would suggest that they have already made a good start.

[angry cat]

"What consumers need is an action group to look after their interests."..

 

erm I think that you might be missing a certain 200,000 + peeps who are on the same wavelength and decided to join CAG...with those very interests in mind-their 2 million posts would suggest that they have already made a good start.

 

A very good start indeed!

and most have no need of claims companies...

 

It is not the job of BAG/CAG to police the claims companies;

Everything that one needs, is on this website.

 

AC

[Tricky Dickie]

"What consumers need is an action group to look after their interests."..

 

erm I think that you might be missing a certain 200,000 + peeps who are on the same wavelength and decided to join CAG...with those very interests in mind-their 2 million posts would suggest that they have already made a good start.

 

 

Not doubting the value of the service provided so far and the benefit to the people who have received the knowledge imparted here however I am following up the point made by Baggio that just maybe there are claims firms which do give a professional service and that to be able to discern between them and the crooks might be of benefit to those unwilling or unable to start a DIY claim.

It may be that every claims firm is crooked and if there is evidence to prove that then so be it the information is just as valuable but if that is the case then the evidence should be clearly presented and available to all

I personally think that there would be a benefit to many millions of people to have such a facility. Clearly the majority of people on this thread disagree and I would like to know how I have got it wrong and why everyone here thinks there can never be any merit whatsoever in any activity conducted by any claims company.

It would seem to me that by using a claims company whether they paid for it or not Mr and Mrs Walker avoided their house being reposessed.

How many more consumers like that who have never heard of CAG or did not have the confidence or ability or even internet connection will lose their homes due to lack of opportunity when it could be avoided

[creditcardmug]

"What consumers need is an action group to look after their interests."..

 

erm I think that you might be missing a certain 200,000 + peeps who are on the same wavelength and decided to join CAG...with those very interests in mind-their 2 million posts would suggest that they have already made a good start.

 

I second that!

[angry cat]

Tricky Dicky, not wise to keep using the word 'cr**ks'.

 

AC

[Tricky Dickie]

A very good start indeed!

and most have no need of claims companies...

 

It is not the job of BAG/CAG to police the claims companies;

Everything that one needs, is on this website.

 

AC

 

 

Ok so as far as CAG are concerned if you can't do it yourself or don't know about CAG then you don't count,

That sounds less like a consumer action group and more like a consumer action group exclusive club for 0.33% of the Uk population(your 200,000 figure) against the 2007 population of the UK.

Thats an awful lot of people who will have to take their chances with the claims companies or just give up.

Maybe you think that if people can't be bothered or don't have the ability to follow the DIY route that they can just suffer but I don't agree.Many of the people suffering most at the hands of lenders are those least able to look after their own interests.

[Tricky Dickie]

Sorry about the crooks reference however I have a feeling if I get binned it won't be for inappropriate use of words

[steven4064]

Saying banks are crooks is OK. Saying a particular one is, is not (libellous)

 

 

(sorry for tortuous grammar, but you know waht I mean)

[angry cat]

There is plenty of help and asstance out there, such as CAB etc and;

if applicable one can go to a specialist solicitor for advice;

Legal Help and

Legal Aid is also available, if one fits the criteria.

 

You dont go to a furniture store to buy Organic Beef, do you?

 

Furthermore, there are at least 5 consumer help websites, probably more.

 

One of the things that really annoys me about some of the firms, not all, is that they place adverts' in local free papers, promising to have people debts written off.

Consumer Debt Issues, are serious matters, every case is different;

some cases valid;

other cases not.

 

It reallly vexes me, when I think about vulnerable people paying out hundreds of pounds, when they havn't got a proverbial pot......!

Not Moral, is it?

 

AC

[creditcardmug]

I wonder how far, a so-called professional claims company would take it, on a no-win no fee basis, for instance if they lost, would they fund an appeal, i don't know, never used them..trickie dicky, do you have a commercial interest in these companies?, sorry have to ask the question, if only for clarities sake

 

Im aware that a lot of people dont find this site in time/at all, and of course am concerned, about their fate at the hands of the unscrupulous DCAs etc... but these companies are commercial enterprises..profit being their number one priority...not the client, wouldnt you agree?