cupcake68 Vs Egg

[MandM]

Sorry to be a peasant, but what exactly is a consent order? Is it like a Tomlin Order? And who would have to pay the costs for a consent order to be drafted?

Good point CM

 

I took that point from Wilchy's post.

 

Maybe they will be able to verify?

 

Cupcake

 

Same thing. Cupcake has asked them to draw up and submit so they pay £40 I think it is though hopefully someone else can confirm. No CCJ!

 

M

 

>>>> Link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?2545-What-is-a-Tomlin-Order

[Bigdebtor]

Cupcake

 

My responses in bold below - hope it's helpful and sensible.

 

BD

 

How does this sound?

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE SAVE AS TO COSTS Essential this is in!

 

With reference to your claim in Northampton County Court Claim No

 

I would like to make the following proposal for settling this account imperiously (not sure what this word means in this context?) by way of a consent order submitted by you to the court - Why not just suggest an informal bilateral agreement to make the monthly payments? Why involve the court any more if you're agreeing to something that's acceptable to them?

 

I am willing to withdraw from defence of this case if your client agrees to the following conditions.

 

1. That I repay the sum of XXX (is this the full balance - what about any unfair default charges and associated interest - or any chanc eof negotiating a reduction in return for this agreement?) by monthly instalments of xxxx per month with effect from xxxx and thereafter on 30th day of every calendar month until the agreed sum is paid in full.

 

2. That the parties in this action agree to be responsible for their own costs.

 

3. That should I default on these terms the claimant will be able to enter judgement forthwith for the total balance outstanding.

 

4. That the Claimant will not assign or pass the debt to any third party for collection.

 

5. That the above terms will be in settlement of all claims that either party shall have or may have against the other arising out of matters in this action.

 

I am currently expecting my third child on XXXX 2011, three days after the scheduled court hearing but my consultant is insisting I have a planned caesarean section one week before my due date therefore if you refuse to accept this proposal I will have no choice but to request that the court hearing be adjourned.

 

Please be assured that my intentions to pay this amount from our low income are honourable.

 

All of above points sem very good as they stand.

 

My financial situation is very unlikely to change say "improve" not "change" (as it could get worse - God forbid!) for some considerable time, our home has no equity in it at present and I have no other assets therefore I have no way of increasing this offer at present or in the foreseeable future. However, if something were to change with regard to my financial situation I would be happy say "prepared" to increase say "modify" (so you can put them down if things get worse?) my payments in order to pay of the balance at a faster rate - I would take out the rest of the sentence after "payments" and just say "modify my payments to reflect the changed circumstances more appropriately".

 

Please see the income and expenditure details over the page. Ensure you've left enough leeway to cope with unexpected/unplanned emergencies - e.g. new washing machine, TV, cooker etc. , mortgage rates/rents/council tax increasing, acceptable luxuries - you're not expected to live like a monk just because you've got debts - have you seen what CCCS or National Debtline etc. suggest for acceptable treats etc.?

 

yours faithfully

 

 

I am very new to this so any criticism will be happily accepted at the cost of getting this right!!

 

Hope my suggestions help? BD

 

Thanks guys

 

Cupcake

Edited February 8, 2011 by Bigdebtor

[cupcake68]

That;s great BD

 

I will review as you suggest.

 

The only thing I have to say is I have been honest with my income and expenditure and there is no room for treats, clothes, washing machines etc. I just hope they are not like 1st Direct and refuse because they think I can't afford it!!!

 

Cupcake

[Bigdebtor]

Cupcake

 

I think you DO need to include things like clothes, occasional treats, Birthday and Christmas presents etc. - otherwise you're not going to be able to keep up what you agree to - as the only thing predictable about unexpected requirements is that they can be confidently expected - and will happen when least convenient.

 

BD

[cupcake68]

BD

 

I am expecting a baby in 3 months, I work for my partner, he seriously broke his leg in October and still unable to walk unaided. He is a manual worker and has not been able to work since and is not likely to work for some months to come. If he does not work, I cannot work, no one will employ me at 6 months pregnant. Due to our circumstances we are not entitled to a penny in help from the government. There is no money for any such luxuries. We also have a serious 2nd charge on our home with a sub prime lender that would take our home at the click of a finger, if it weren't for family we would not still have a roof over our heads. In October when this happened I did not think we would still be here now and I am not rally sure how we have managed it but we have. Things like clothes and presents cannot be part of our monthly expenditure at this moment in time. I cannot change that.

 

As I say I just hope they accept my offer with the good intention it is made because there truly is no more I can do at this point.

 

I do not wish to sound funny with you but we were in a bad situation before all this happened and I could not have spared an extra £100 a month by not buying a pint or sandwich at lunchtime each day but now things are very much worse now and I cannot even consider what 'normal' people get to consider necessities!!

 

Cupcake

[Bigdebtor]

Cupcake

 

Please do not misunderstand me. All I'm saying is you need to be VERY careful not to over commit any monthly payment - especially if backed up by a court order or a new enforceable agreement.

 

Based on what you say above I would be inclined to tell all of this to both BC and Egg - and ensure your offer IS affordable in your PRESENT circumstances. I was urging caution because for most people things CAN get worse - so they should not over-commit on any new promise of regular monthly payments. I know. I fell into this trap and it was twice as difficult to get a new reduced monthloy deal agreed - until I found CAG and with help just told them "blood from stone" - "take it or leave it and we'll see what the court thinks". However for you things SHOULD only get better once your partner can work again. A low offer now with the prospect of a better offer in a few months' time may well be attractive enough to BC and Egg to accept.

 

However, if you don't get any joy from BC or EGG then I really think you have NOTHING to lose by just going to court - as a judge will ONLY order yopu to pay what you CAN afford - and he WILL take into account the need for the occasional luxury. If that's the case then ensure your offer to BC and Egg is NOT marked "Without prejudice" so the Judge can see you've tried EVERYTHING to settle this outside of court - but circumstances have just overwhelmed you.

 

Regarding the £100 per month, I accept you don't have this spare - most people in debt also don't hav ethis at first sight - but many of them are paying well over £100 per month in unfair default charges and high interest. My point was to alert them to the fact that THIS MONEY would be regarded by CCCS etc. as DISPOSABLE income - since with an agreement to suspend interest and charges, this money would ALL go to reducing the debt (which is what the banks-funded CCCS is there to achieve) - and not be wasted on providing the profits for Bankers' bonuses.

 

Regarding the second charge I would advise you to look at all potential avenues for help and advice on this now - BEFORE you get to the stage of the lender taking action. There may well be ways to reduce or remove the risk of this - or get some protection which would prevent them calling in this second charge. I had such a second charge and managed to get my mrtgage company to increase my mortgage - despite having been threatened by them with eviction for mortgage arrears just 6-8 months earlier! They agreed to give me more to pay off the second charge once they realised the effect the much higher interest second charge payments had on my ability to afford the main mortgage. I'm not saying you could do this right now - with your partner not earning at present - but once he's back at work then if you don't ask you don't get.

 

I agree totally with your comments on Government help. I made a couple of big mistakes in my business a few years ago (the main one being I got stitched up by a large plc who stole my software ideas) , but I was trading out of them when I became seriously ill. The least sympathetic of my business creditors then were HMRC(VAT and NI/Income Tax), Companies House (fining me for my accounts being late) and Business Rates. HMRC were able to take large amounts from my business account (without any court case!) which should have gone on wages - and then I was threatened with an Employment Tribunal for paying wages late! I paid the wages using credit card cash advances - which is one of the reasons I got into the mess I ended up in. During the time I was off work I got zero in sick pay and was also told if I folded the business I would not even get job seekers' allowance. My personal debts continued to mount whilst I tried to keep the business afloat and my family fed and housed.

 

The current old Etonian Government are looking after their big business cronies very well (despite yesterday's £800m bank smokescreen) and the other lot claim to look after the "workers" - but NO ONE looks after the self employed and those running small businesses - despite us accounting for over 8 million of the current work force.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[MandM]

- but NO ONE looks after the self employed and those running small businesses - despite us accounting for over 8 million of the current work force.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

 

Too true.

 

M

[cupcake68]

Hi BD

 

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to sound so harsh but the truth is I can't really afford to pay them a penny but I need to get them off my back and I cannot be thinking about a court hearing at the same time as having a newborn baby so this is my attempt to get them off my back!

 

I am not convinced they will accept £5 a month on this kind of debt but I really have no way of paying more and hopefully if they do refuse and I end up in court the judge will see I have tried my best!

 

Cupcake

[Bigdebtor]

Cupcake

 

I'm paying Egg £5 per month through Fredericksons - Bryan Carter's DCA sidekick. I used to pay another Egg DCA (DL&C) £75 per month but couldn't keep it up along with all other debt repayments. DL&C passed it back to Egg who "got Carter" involved - after a lot of threats, but nothing else, Frederickson eventually agreed to the £5 per month - so this will be fully repaid in 800 months, by which time I'll be over 120 years old!

 

If it does go to court you could ask them why they have agreed to £5 from others and not from you. You could even put this in your offer along lines of "I know Egg are prepared to allow DCA's to accept £5 pe rmonth from other debtors in similar financial circumstances and simply ask that I be treated as sympathetically". If it does go to court I would be happy to give you a witness statement to back this up - but all you would need to do is to ask them if they have EVER accepted token payments of £5 or lower. They would be committing perjury if they denied it.

 

BD

[cupcake68]

Thanks BD

 

I will keep all that in mind when trying to negotiate!

 

Cupcake

[Gallahad]

Nice one BD:-)

G

[Pickles18]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum and cannot find where to start a post.

 

I received a letter from Frederisckon International Ltd this morning saying they had made enquiries form confirmation of my address and asking me to call them. I think it is best not to call them and I have no idea what this can be about as I am not in any debt as far as I know.

 

Any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[Bigdebtor]

Pickles

 

DO NOT call them or contact them in any way. They are trying to trace someone - probably not you if you've no debts that are in arrears etc. - so why make their job any easier for them by eliminating your address as one of the possibilities? If they ring you refuse to give them ANY personal details. After all YOUR personal details could be used by a stranger for identity theft - so why would you volunteer them to a stranger ringing you unnanounced?

 

If they do call you - and persist in calling even when told not to do so - then send the "no harassment" template from CAG - otherwise save your time, money and envelopes!

 

BD

[gh2008]

If you have no idea what it is about (and do not have any old debts), write to them making a formal complaint and report them to the OFT as they are in breach of the OFT's rules

 

If you may have old catalogue or mobile phone or Egg debt (that's what they deal with mainly) then follow the advice already given

 

There is lots of info on these forums about Fredricksons, Freds, Fredpay, Bryan Carter etc (all the one and the same)

[Pickles18]

Hi BD,

 

Thank you for your advice - I am not going to make any contact with them as I have realised this is probably a fishing excercise on their part. I don't think it's anything to do with me so as you said I am not going to waste my time or money helping them. If I get a call I will follow your advice - and thank you again.

 

Have a great day - Happy Valentines!!

 

P

[Pickles18]

Hi gh2008,

 

Thanks for your reply. I have never had a catalogue or Egg card and I have a current mobile phone account being run perfectly.

 

I am assuming this is nothing to do with me and unless they write again will ignore it. They haven't actually said I owe any money to anyone - they are just trying to eliminate me from a list I think. Are they in breach of OFT's rules by even writing to me?

 

P

[cupcake68]

Cupcake

 

My responses in bold below - hope it's helpful and sensible.

 

BD

 

Hi Guys

 

Good luck Pickles!!

 

Can I just ask...

 

If I am not offering the monthly payments in the form of a court order should I still be quoting items 1 to 4?

 

I have thought about your advice BD and have decided at this stage I am not prepared to give any more than I have to so I am just going to offer a monthly payment of £5 with an income and expenditure list.

 

Cheers

 

Cupcake

[Bigdebtor]

Cupcake

 

I would make your offer as simple as possible - with the least amount of concessions or rights to the creditor if you default.

 

If you don't need to use a court order type format then don't.

 

I suggest you simply draft a simple proposal along lines of : Baby due in 3 months, self -employed partner for whom I work is injured - no work - no pay - not sure how long for at present. Can afford £5 only if all charges an dinterest now frozen - and I know this amount has been accepted by you from others in financial difficulties - I will be prepared to review if/when circumstances alter (don't say improve - so you can review DOWN too).

 

Include summary I&E if you want - but don't detail all debts and other payments unless you have to do so. Something similar got me the £5 deal from Fred - but only after I hadn't paid them anything at all for a good few months.

 

Post up a draft if you want us to give it the once over.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[cupcake68]

Hi Guys

 

I have had a reply from Brian Carter.

 

They can confirm on a without prejudice basis they are prepared (should it not say our client is prepared?) to accept in full and final settlement of the debt £15188.58 payable by monthly instalments of £5.

 

They have enclosed consent orders for me to "use". I have to sign and return within 7 days. If they do not hear from me they will apply to the court to strike out your defence at hearing.

 

I have had a read of the consent order and have just a few queries!!

 

At the top of the form it says Maidstone County Court (which is my local court that the case has been transferred to)

 

Further down the form it says Before District Judge

On the day of 2011 sitting at Bristol County Court (none of the blanks are filled in!!)

 

Upon the parties having agreed the terms of settlement

 

BY CONSENT

 

IT IS ORDERED that all further proceedings in this action to be stayed upon the terms set out in the schedule hereto save for the purpose of enforcing or carrying into effect the said terms with liberty to apply for that purpose.

 

AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that all parties will bear their own costs

 

SCHEDULE

 

1. The Claimant agrees to accept the sum of £15188.58 in settlement of the total claim payable by instalments of £5.00, first payment commencing 16th March 2011 and on the same day each month thereafter.

 

2. The Claimant agrees not to enter Judgement on the condition that the above arrangement is maintained.

 

3. The Claimant be at liberty to restore proceedings if the defendant defaults in payment arrangements.

 

So the history of this account is as follows....

 

I stopped paying in May 09 bal £13974.20

 

Egg continued to add interest at approx £230 pcm until Aug 09 bal £14698

 

In July 09 Egg added £16 late charges

 

In May 10 Egg refunded £960.25 under refund of interest (I had not asked for this!) Account charged off at £13738.33

 

I have a letter from BC dated Nov 10 balance of claim £14698.58. The total balance to date of claim including costs £15188.58.

 

So.....

 

Am I pushing my luck to say I should not be paying their costs?

 

Why would it say Bristol County court?

 

And why are the spaces not filled in?

 

Thanks for the advice

 

Cupcake

[pt2537]

So.....

 

Am I pushing my luck to say I should not be paying their costs? Er each party bearing their own costs means just that, they dont pay yours you dont pay theirs, its often called drop hands.

 

 

 

Why would it say Bristol County court? because they were too lazy to properly edit the template

 

And why are the spaces not filled in? the blanks will never be filled in on such an order like that, because it is impossible to know which judge it will go before on which day, so it cannot be completed unless done so by the judge.

 

Thanks for the advice

 

Cupcake

[cupcake68]

Hi Pt

 

So should I be writing back asking them to correct their mistake and go ask that the outstanding sum be corrected to not include their costs?

 

What would be the reasonable amount to settle on?

 

The amount that it was at when I stopped paying in Mar 09 (pushing it a little I figure!)

 

The amount it was charged off at ? (This would take into account the £900 refund they applied just before charging off)

 

Thanks

 

Cupcake

[pt2537]

erm unless im seriously missing something,

 

it doesnt include their costs, and ive just said that too in my previous post. Each party bears its own costs, which means you dont pay THEM and THEY dont pay you, its no order as to costs

 

In respect of the rest, that is something for you to consider and see where you go from there

[pt2537]

just to clarify, the costs they are seeking will be costs of the claim in respect of issue fees, court fees etc, these are not something that the drop hands would include normally, but you are not liable for the fees of the solicitors

[cupcake68]

The costs I am talking about are is the difference from when they "closed off" the account £13738 and the total they are now asking for £15188.

 

Cupcake

[pt2537]

what you need then, is not to ask for them to be removed, but to ask for a break down as to how these costs have accrued and what they are