ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[Scooby Doo69]

Hi there,

 

Few days ago I have received a letter in the post from ACS law accusing me of download pornography movie on 27/07/09 via BitTorrent/Emule. They acting for Media CAT.

 

In the letter they have recorded "my" IP address and have requested £495 in payment in 21 days. They state if I do not pay I face legal and court action. The letter looks like a photocopy including the court order for the IP address.

I have phoned my provider O2 and they said that they have not received anything from ACS LAW regarding my IP address and request for my details.

 

Please can someone advise me on the best thing to do?

 

Many Thanks

 

Andy.

 

Andy,

 

First things first.

 

1) No one on here is qualified to give legal advice as far as I am concerned, so get independent legal advice. Most solicitors offer afree 15-30 minute surgery. Or you have the CAB. Some house insurance and car insurance policies come with legal cover nowadays

 

2) This is a public forum, so just remember ACS more than likely read these posts as well, so refrain from giving away personal information that could be used against you at a later date.

 

Now, if it was me and I didn't do it, then I would send a single letter of denial and advise them that you will not be entering into any further correspondance.

 

From history with ACS, it looks like that on the balance of probability they will not take you too Court and work on the principle of fear into making people pay up.

 

But, it is also worth while checking your internet connection and for peice of mind make sure that if it's wireless, the router is secured.

 

Just remember you are not alone and give as little information as possible to ACS or online...

[sequenci]

Oh dear...

 

BBC News - 02 condemns file-sharing letters

[halfords]

Oh dear...

 

BBC News - 02 condemns file-sharing letters

 

 

with the digital bill going through you would think the government would sort out the leaches [causing problems] people. mr mandleson will be getting a nice free holiday soon no dought!!

[derr]

I think the thread is definately being lost in terms of IPSs etc ( and I know I brang it up myself earlier) when the whole threat is ACS law and my personal bug bear Tilly Bailey Irvine- Is something going to be done about them ever do you think?

I see the O2 story didnt even mention TBI just that a third party was getting involved-how do we put that name forward more?

[andydd]

Mr Crossley said that "some are in court at the moment".

 

Really Andrew ?, you say this time and time again, by my estimation, there must of been in excess of 100,000 -200,000 letters sent out but still not a single court case that anyone can confirm.

 

It's finally good to see ISP's taking a stand, with Talk Talk to be congratulated for taking a firm stance, lets hope its not just words.

 

Mr C goes on to say "He declined to identify any of the clients represented by DigiProtect, beyond saying "there are a variety, some in music, some computer games and some in adult content movies".

 

HHmm..They are all just a bunch of washed up loser games, porn films and crap music that no-one is buying anyway so they have to case innocent people to try and make money.

 

Andy

[halfords]

when is a ISP gonna stand up and say "lets go to court and get this sorted" the 1st to do so will have me signing up! As soon as one ISP gets some kahoonas and goes all the way these firms go back into the dark manky place they normally hide (nhs hospitals)

[cashins]

kahoonas

 

Cojones, to be picky:p

 

david

[halfords]

dictionary/spell checker malfunction

[Shaggy123]

I'd be interested in finding out just how many of these tracks were simply obscure album fillers on compilation albums. Thus, not shared in isolation and certainly wouldnt be the reason the album was downloaded.

 

The new report is littered with Crossleys misunderstandings I see.

 

An IP does not necessarily identify a PC. Possibly a PC but more than likely a router.

 

'Some' are in court. Really?

 

How does he know those downloading the stuff dont already have it? Is that still stealing?

 

He makes me yawn!

[the_shadow]

I'd be interested in finding out just how many of these tracks were simply obscure album fillers on compilation albums. Thus, not shared in isolation and certainly wouldnt be the reason the album was downloaded.

 

The new report is littered with Crossleys misunderstandings I see.

 

An IP does not necessarily identify a PC. Possibly a PC but more than likely a router.

 

'Some' are in court. Really?

 

How does he know those downloading the stuff dont already have it? Is that still stealing?

 

He makes me yawn!

 

Just to clarify, I believe its not the downloading as such they are claiming infringement for, its the sharing after the download.

 

S.

[Scooby Doo69]

Downloading is not the issue here in the UK as it's not illegal.

 

Uploading (which is the main component of P2P) IS the offence. Those that leech off torrents and don't share are less likely to be caught without being any less guilty.

 

That in itself makes a mockery of the whole process

[Shaggy123]

Just to clarify, I believe its not the downloading as such they are claiming infringement for, its the sharing after the download.

 

S.

 

Quite correct so who is doing the stealing? The person downloading or the person uploading?

 

"My clients don't have the same fear. They take the view that the people they target aren't their customers because they are stealing from them,"

 

He seems a tad confused. If someone bought the CD or game or whatever they are a customer. If that CD or game then got scratched so the owner decided to download it then they are still a customer and haven't stolen anything. Obviously if they then share off what they've downloaded then they have stolen the copyright I suppose but they are still a customer. In this situation the person downloading from the person who bought the item is the one who isnt the customer and is stealing the cd/game but its not these people who they go after.

 

I think he needs better advisors on technical issues.

[Shaggy123]

Downloading is not the issue here in the UK as it's not illegal.

 

But aren't they the ones who are ultimately stealing? That's what Crossers seems to think.

 

Uploading (which is the main component of P2P) IS the offence. Those that leech off torrents and don't share are less likely to be caught without being any less guilty.

 

That in itself makes a mockery of the whole process

 

Certainly does.

[angrydebtor]

there is only one person who needs to be in court and that is crossley himself. this man really is a social menace.

[angrydebtor]

Mobile firm O2 has stepped into the row over thousands of controversial letters that are being sent to alleged illegal file-sharers in the UK. It condemned the attempts "by rights holders and their lawyers to bully or threaten our customers".

The row centres around UK law firm ACS:Law and its client DigiProtect, an anti-piracy firm which represents a series of content owners.

ACS: Law denies that its letters are bullying in nature.

"Neither we nor our clients threaten or bully anyone. We send out letters of claim to account holders of internet connections where those internet connections have been identified as being utilised for illegal file-sharing of our clients' copyrighted works," said Andrew Crossley of ACS: Law.

"Our letter makes an enquiry in that regard and invites the recipient of our letter to respond to this evidence. In addition they are invited to enter into a compromise to avoid litigation," he added.

The firm is in the process of contacting thousands of alleged UK pirates and offers them the chance to settle out of court for around £500 per infringement.

O2's broadband customers are among those sent letters.

"Where we are legally obliged to provide information and the correct paperwork is presented, we will comply with the law," said an O2 spokesman.

"But we prefer the 'win-win' approach of encouraging the development of new business models that offer customers the content they want, how they want it, for a fair price," he added.

One-off payment

 

My clients are losing money because of copyright infringement and they are equally upset that their copyright is being stolen

 

 

Andrew Crossley, ACS: Law

 

 

ACS: Law says it has so far identified around 60,000 different UK IP addresses, which reveal the identity of individual computers.

It is in the process of applying for court orders which would force the internet service provider behind the IP address to hand over the physical address of the individual connected to the computer.

Not all IP addresses will result in a physical address because one machine can generate more than one IP address and, in some cases, the ISP is unable to find the real address.

ACS: Law estimates that for every 1,000 IP addresses it requests court orders for it will get around 400 actual addresses.

Investigation

Many of the cases already under way were passed on to ACS: Law by another law firm, Davenport Lyons, which originally began the claims.

Davenport Lyons has been subject to an investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority over its role in sending letters to alleged pirates.

The SRA confirmed to the BBC that two of the partners, Brian Miller and David Gore, have been referred to its disciplinary tribunal.

"We are very aware of the public and parliamentary concern about the issue behind the Davenport Lyons complaint," said a SRA spokesman.

ACS: Law is also being investigated by the SRA.

ACS: Law declined to say how many of the cases it is pursuing have been settled out of court or how many have been dropped but Mr Crossley said that "some are in court at the moment".

The process used by ACS: Law has courted controversy because the accuracy of methods used to identify pirates.

Experts argue that an IP address cannot be used as evidence in court because it is not proof that the owner of the PC was actually responsible for the downloading.

Hundreds of people have complained to consumer watchdog Which?, saying that they have been wrongly accused, including pensioners who claim they don't know how to download content.

It has caused distress to some of the accused, particularly as some of the content they are accused of downloading is hardcore pornography.

'Scared'

 

The Murdochs were wrongly accused of illegal file-sharing

 

 

"My clients are losing money because of copyright infringement and they are equally upset that their copyright is being stolen," said Mr Crossley.

He declined to identify any of the clients represented by DigiProtect, beyond saying "there are a variety, some in music, some computer games and some in adult content movies".

In the UK the government has toughened its stance on illegal downloading and its new policy, if approved by the parliament, will see letters sent to people believed to be involved in illegal downloading

"The notifications will "guide recipients towards legal services" and "may refer to the prospect of court action", according to UK music industry representative BPI.

The BPI said it has no intention of following a similar path to ACS: Law.

But Mr Crossley threw down the gauntlet to other rights holders.

"I think the BPI is letting its members down. I think they are scared of alienating their customers," he said.

"My clients don't have the same fear. They take the view that the people they target aren't their customers because they are stealing from them," he said.

Mr Crossley said that the copyright owners got a fair share of the revenue generated by the process.

"After my expenses the copyright owner is the largest single beneficiary," he said.

Another law firm has recently begun issuing similar letters.

[angrydebtor]

We are pleased with the results on the initial batches of issued claims, as we have found that 80% of all defendants opt for settlements outside of court, for amounts more than originally claimed.

Copyright infringers generally buckle when litigation is formally initiated. Our experience shows that most will seek an out of court settlement and offer to pay costs to date. It has always been our intention to set a favourable precedent and whilst it is disappointing that these settlements mean that a fully contested case has yet to reached the courts, our client's have been successful in recovering monies lost to piracy. Based on these successes, we have been instructed to increase the number of claims we issue at court by at least 300% over the coming months. We are confident that we will be able to set a number favourable precedents to build on the existing case law in 2010.

The intellectual property department at ACS Law has been going from strength to strength. We have been in the news recently and as a direct result of the increased publicity, we are pleased to announce the acquisition of substantial new clients, including a number of well known songwriters and software companies. In order to fully service our new clients, we will be doubling the size of our team in the very near future.

Exciting times ahead.

taken from their website today. the arrogance of this lot knows no bounds

[Shaggy123]

angrydebtor. You should probably quote your source as companies doent take too kindly to having their articles copied and pasted in full.

[ccsnet]

angrydebtor. You should probably quote your source as companies doent take too kindly to having their articles copied and pasted in full.

Plus thats been there a while IIRC.....

 

Terran

[multi]

ACS LAW ATTEMPT TO SILENCE SUPPORT FORUM THREADS

ACS law have attempted to close down three threads at another site (which, apparently must not be named here - Ahem, Slyck, ahem). These threads in particular have been very useful in co-ordinating letter writing campaigns and providing support to those who are falsely accused.

 

For the full story:

 

Click here (possibly NSFW title)

 

and

 

ACS:Law – Back in the news again! OPEN BYTES – cave quid dicis, quando, et cui.

 

and

 

http://torrentfreak.com/uk-anti-piracy-lawyers-threaten-file-sharing-forum-100322/

 

Unfortunately for ACS law, the site has gone to the EFF for defence and has refused to back down as (a) the accusations appear to be groundless and (b) they do not have jurisdiction in the US - in particular New York, where the site is based.

 

Hilarious. This doesn't count as bullying tactics, then?

Edited March 22, 2010 by multi

[Caimbeul]

How can they try to oppose open public forums for dicussion. This is against the US freedom of speech and here too! They are trying to silence any sources of help for the innocent people they are harrassing. If that is not bullying, intimidation and trying to stifle help to those perfectly entitled to such then there is no hope for us all.

[Caimbeul]

Someone should make a google cahce of both threads (assuming of course that such a thing is allowed) and this one in the event that any info or proof of their tactics gets taken down.

[multi]

Someone should make a google cahce of both threads (assuming of course that such a thing is allowed) and this one in the event that any info or proof of their tactics gets taken down.

 

They are going to be archived and distributed ;o)

 

UK Anti-Piracy Lawyers Threaten File-Sharing Forum | TorrentFreak

[andydd]

HHmm..Interesting stuff from Slyk, but surely if you call Andrew Crossley a tw*t, he would have to go to court and prove he is not, and surely he'd lose

 

Andy

[The GodMother]

HHmm..Interesting stuff from Slyk, but surely if you call Andrew Crossley a tw*t, he would have to go to court and prove he is not, and surely he'd lose

 

Andy

 

Personal opinions dont count in court.

[Scooby Doo69]

Personal opinions dont count in court.

 

They do in civil court. This does highlight two major issues though

 

1) ACS Law and others do read these forums, so do not post any personal information that could be used against you

 

2) That ACS Law have intentionally or unintentionally distracted people from the task in hand just as the DEB goes through Parliament.

 

Eyes on the prize people, eyes on the prize!