ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[andydd]

oh hang on was my bad, was from the royal courts of justice in london, heres the press release

 

UPDATE 30000 UK Broadband ISP Customers Face Illegal File Sharing Threat Letters − ISPreview UK

 

at bottom of the article:

ACS: Law are currently also under investigation by the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA), though details of this action remain unknown.

 

Davenport lyons were also under investigation though but no one seems to know the result of that !

 

Andy

[cashins]

Davenport lyons were also under investigation though but no one seems to know the result of that !

 

 

And have been for a year.

 

Having had dealings with the SRA I would not expect this organization to to anything but side with the industry they represent.

 

Short of any political will, (in fact the opposite), the best hope for the demise of these operations and the rest that jump on the bandwagon will be the negative publicity.

 

They won't give a damn about the publicity other than the fact as more people become aware of what going on and tell them what to do with their claims, it simply becomes unprofitable.

 

David

[ccsnet]

Wi-Fi Hijacking Rampant Across UK, Says Survey - ITProPortal.com

 

Terran

[andydd]

Wi-Fi Hijacking Rampant Across UK, Says Survey - ITProPortal.com

 

Terran

 

I actually downloaded a torrent using a neighbour's connection last niught just to prove to myself how easy it can be, the worrying aspect is I would of been able to login to his router had he/she kept the default password (most people do).

 

Andy

[BARFLY]

Not sure whther this has been addressed in the previous 82 pages but how can ACS and Digiprotect show that what you were downloading was actually what they state. For instance, they might say that you were downloading such and such a game or porn movie or whatever and provide details of IP address and dates and times but how can anyone prove that was what was actually downloaded. Can they provide screenshots of the P2P at the time. How can they prove that what was being downloaded was actually and specifically detailed. i.e if they are claiming that you downloaded debbie does dallas but were actually putting it on there as ******** or something?

[andydd]

Not sure whther this has been addressed in the previous 82 pages but how can ACS and Digiprotect show that what you were downloading was actually what they state. For instance, they might say that you were downloading such and such a game or porn movie or whatever and provide details of IP address and dates and times but how can anyone prove that was what was actually downloaded. Can they provide screenshots of the P2P at the time. How can they prove that what was being downloaded was actually and specifically detailed. i.e if they are claiming that you downloaded debbie does dallas but were actually putting it on there as ******** or something?

 

Well.Ii believe that it has been mentioned that Digiprotect themselves actually put the item on there and use it as bait to trap unsuspecting 'flies'. I'm sure it has been mentioned as well that they do open the file in question to check it, I doubt there is much proof of this though.

 

Andyu

[BARFLY]

that's my point. what if you say: yes, i might have been downloading something but not what you are stating. how would they prove otherwise?

[Huff&Puff]

that's my point. what if you say: yes, i might have been downloading something but not what you are stating. how would they prove otherwise?

 

 

That's one of the myriad reasons why they are unlikely to ever take it to court in a defended case.

[BARFLY]

Would you have to download a complete movie or game for the accusations to stand? What would be the case, for instance, were you to download part of the game but then delete the torrent before completion because it was taking so long to download. You would never have opened the game. You might have deleted the torrent before completion because you were made aware that it was copyrighted. There are so many variables.

[inatiable-cj]

Questions have been asked in a BT forum but no one person from BT as dared to reply! : BT disclosing customer details to ACS ...

[Krisbutler]

Yes I originally posted that.. I want someone from BT to comment but they obviously haven't the balls..!!

[BARFLY]

Does anyone have a link as to what ACS are claiming was shared in their latest NPO? It varies from site to site, from porn to hollywood movies to Kasabian and Leonard Cohen! Or any information on the NPO that was submitted by Media Cat?

Edited December 9, 2009 by BARFLY

[ccsnet]

Does anyone have a link as to what ACS are claiming was shared in their latest NPO? It varies from site to site, from porn to hollywood movies to Kasabian and Leonard Cohen! Or any information on the NPO that was submitted by Media Cat?

I'd like to know this too.

 

Also got a letter from my MP today after raising this whole issue ( including links to here and other sites and reference to the SRA investigation etc ) and how it will affect the real fight against piracy that Peter Madelson is trying to bring in.... although as I pointed out I dont believe the three strikes position is some thing that can be done yet as the technology they will use to identify the perpetrators will probably be of the same format that this lot use.... eg IP address and not person.

 

My long letter has been passed on to him and I will hopefully get a reply back at some point....

 

If you have not done so already can I suggest you do the same.... all it takes is some of your time - WriteToThem - Email or fax your Councillor, MP, MEP, MSP or Welsh, NI, London Assembly Member for free

 

Terran

 

PS Got a really nice Christmas Card too...

[BARFLY]

anyone got a link? is the NPO available to view anywhere? law gazette etc.?

[edgedc]

ACS Law are a spin off of Davenport Lyons. I had a letter from them sometime ago. I checked out their recently setup website and the documents it contained. These were originally produced by Davenport Lyons solicitors. The letter was not concerned with what had been downloaded but what I had allegedly uploaded as that seemed to be their main concern. They threaten all sorts of court action in legal terms and of course demand money. I politely but firmly denied having 'offered for upload' the game and told them I would not pay and settlement either now or in the future. I did not go on to outline the flaws in their reasoning ie another person using my WiFi either with or without my knowledge. In this country you are not responsible for what happens on your IP just because it is registered to you despite what they say in the letter. I have not heard from them since. To prove in an English court that you as an individual had committed an offence of copyright breach they would need to forensically examine your computer or all the computers in your home, they will not do this as it takes too long and costs too much.

My advice is that if you do receive a letter from ACS then don't ignore it, write back denying the accusation and inform them you will not be paying any settlement. Tell them you will be contacting your solicitor should they wish to proceed further and the Law Society to make a complaint if they continue to write asking for money. [They do have a code of conduct, two letters then put up or shut up]

I have not heard from them for over six months now and doubt I will.

 

This is not a [problem] but a legal way of generating cash from the uninformed. They do obtain our details legally through the High court presenting the minimal of evidence to get the order for the service provider to disclose our details.

 

If you want to avoid anyone else tracking your internet activity use a proxy such as Relakks.

[andydd]

ACS Law are a spin off of Davenport Lyons. I had a letter from them sometime ago. I checked out their recently setup website and the documents it contained. These were originally produced by Davenport Lyons solicitors. The letter was not concerned with what had been downloaded but what I had allegedly uploaded as that seemed to be their main concern. They threaten all sorts of court action in legal terms and of course demand money. I politely but firmly denied having 'offered for upload' the game and told them I would not pay and settlement either now or in the future. I did not go on to outline the flaws in their reasoning ie another person using my WiFi either with or without my knowledge. In this country you are not responsible for what happens on your IP just because it is registered to you despite what they say in the letter. I have not heard from them since. To prove in an English court that you as an individual had committed an offence of copyright breach they would need to forensically examine your computer or all the computers in your home, they will not do this as it takes too long and costs too much.

My advice is that if you do receive a letter from ACS then don't ignore it, write back denying the accusation and inform them you will not be paying any settlement. Tell them you will be contacting your solicitor should they wish to proceed further and the Law Society to make a complaint if they continue to write asking for money. [They do have a code of conduct, two letters then put up or shut up]

I have not heard from them for over six months now and doubt I will.

 

This is not a [problem] but a legal way of generating cash from the uninformed. They do obtain our details legally through the High court presenting the minimal of evidence to get the order for the service provider to disclose our details.

 

If you want to avoid anyone else tracking your internet activity use a proxy such as Relakks.

 

I'm not sure ACS are actually a 'spin off' of DL, although its true they did initially (at least) use the same documents as used by DL, complete with DL details on, all this and most of the other points you made have already been discussed way back in the thread though, although its not suprising the same points pop up now and again considering how long this thread has now become !

 

Andy

[n11186]

If they took me to court and im in front of a judge and they give there evidence, what is i down-loaded scooter, with the date and time and they then can say how reliable there Digiprotect is and tracing IP addresses ETC i would think thats all they have.

Now if this is my evidence at the time of there allogations i was on holliday in the USA with all my family my passport stamped from Florida, holliday receipts, credit card receipts ETC the only thing im guilty of is failing to turn my power of for my PC, but i have not told ACS of this would i be seen by the court as waisting time? i have sent severall LOD asking them to take me to court but they still just send me more letters demanding money, £500.00 then £350.00 and if they do take me to court and they loose can i counter sue them for harasment alarm and disstress etc. im realy now geared up for them to take there action against me reading through some of there letters they have also address me as Mr + Miss AND Sir/Madam THANKS 4 any advice

[teaboy2]

If they took me to court and im in front of a judge and they give there evidence, what is i down-loaded scooter, with the date and time and they then can say how reliable there Digiprotect is and tracing IP addresses ETC i would think thats all they have.

Now if this is my evidence at the time of there allogations i was on holliday in the USA with all my family my passport stamped from Florida, holliday receipts, credit card receipts ETC the only thing im guilty of is failing to turn my power of for my PC, but i have not told ACS of this would i be seen by the court as waisting time? i have sent severall LOD asking them to take me to court but they still just send me more letters demanding money, £500.00 then £350.00 and if they do take me to court and they loose can i counter sue them for harasment alarm and disstress etc. im realy now geared up for them to take there action against me reading through some of there letters they have also address me as Mr + Miss AND Sir/Madam THANKS 4 any advice

 

you should take them to court now for harrassment by puting in the paticulars of claim your evidence that disputes their claims against you demanding money for being responsible for downloaded copyright protected material when you were not even in the country at the time they claim the offence accured.

 

Once served with your particulars of claim, they will have no way of defending it. and judgement will probably be given in your favour as default.

[andydd]

you should take them to court now for harrassment by puting in the paticulars of claim your evidence that disputes their claims against you demanding money for being responsible for downloaded copyright protected material when you were not even in the country at the time they claim the offence accured.

 

Once served with your particulars of claim, they will have no way of defending it. and judgement will probably be given in your favour as default.

 

It would be very unwise to take legal action against ACS at this stage without some very specialist legal advice, firstly for 'harrassment' just wouldnt stick, all they have done is write to you, this certainly would not be classed as harrassment, if this was the case we would all be taking untold numbers of DCA's to court.

 

Your 'on holiday' arguement wouldnt be valid for two reasons, the most important being that ACS are not alledging you downloaded the file in question, they are alledging you made it available (i.e, the file was on your PC, available to download via a bittorrent program, you didnt have to be there at the time), secondly it would be very easy to logon to your home PC remotely from anywhere in the world, you wouldnt physically have to be sitting at it.

 

Andy

[jpts33]

It would be very unwise to take legal action against ACS at this stage without some very specialist legal advice, firstly for 'harrassment' just wouldnt stick, all they have done is write to you, this certainly would not be classed as harrassment, if this was the case we would all be taking untold numbers of DCA's to court.

 

Your 'on holiday' arguement wouldnt be valid for two reasons, the most important being that ACS are not alledging you downloaded the file in question, they are alledging you made it available (i.e, the file was on your PC, available to download via a bittorrent program, you didnt have to be there at the time), secondly it would be very easy to logon to your home PC remotely from anywhere in the world, you wouldnt physically have to be sitting at it.

 

Andy

 

Sounds reasonable. It almost seems like nobody has any proper defence, but I guess if it comes down to it ACS would be in the same predicament, they don't really have solid 100% evidence which is why I guess nobody has gone to court yet. Damn frustrating and as far as I can see it's the authorities that are pretty much the only people who can stop this, and so far they don't give a monkeys.

[andydd]

Sounds reasonable. It almost seems like nobody has any proper defence, but I guess if it comes down to it ACS would be in the same predicament, they don't really have solid 100% evidence which is why I guess nobody has gone to court yet. Damn frustrating and as far as I can see it's the authorities that are pretty much the only people who can stop this, and so far they don't give a monkeys.

 

Im sure back in the early mists of this thread there was talk of examination of hard drives to try and find out wether the file in question was on your hard drive although as the dates that ACS alledge are often upto a year and a half ago, its quite likely in that time that people would of changed hard drives/pc's etc.

 

I suppose the actual defence(s) to be used are that the IP address was wrongly identified, considering its quite a long process from bittorrent>digiprototect>acs>court application>isp>acs>letter to you, its quite likely that a mistake could be made made (this was exactly why davenport lyons gave up remember !), this isn't even taking into account, IP spoofing, hi-jacking Wifi accounts, houses with multiple users, etc

 

Andy

[n11186]

Thanks for all your advice m8s, I have renewed my PC since there allegations but i also have the receipt from Currys before they made there allegations. (This is so unfair its unreal) i have now started to keep all my receipts for all the music and DVDs we have bought since there allegations for what good it will do SH*T HAPPENS. :mad:

[andydd]

Thanks for all your advice m8s, I have renewed my PC since there allegations but i also have the receipt from Currys before they made there allegations. (This is so unfair its unreal) i have now started to keep all my receipts for all the music and DVDs we have bought since there allegations for what good it will do SH*T HAPPENS. :mad:

 

 

What ACS are alledging is not that you downloaded the songs/films in question, but that you made them availaible (via a bit torrent client), if you bought the CD in question thats fine and you are allowed to listen to it but you are not allowed to rip it and allow the files to be downloaded (which is what ACS are alledging).

 

So the fact you may or may not own the DVD's/CD's in question and have receipts is irrelevant I'm afraid.

 

Of course pigs will fly before ACS actually take someone to court and prove the allegation against them

 

Andy

[cerberusalert]

To reiterate what has already been said within this thread, the crux of ACS's argument is that the a/c holder is responsible for what has been downloaded via his/her internet connection, the sole basis of their allegations is using tracking software which to date is still unproven, AFAIK their forensics experts are not even recognised in the UK, they certainly are not in Italy or Germany nor is their tracking software. There is no verifiable evidence that they have actually won a court case although their predecessors have won one by default as the defendant never defended & even then it is alleged that that particular case was 'manufactured'. There is one case allegedly where a publican has been prosecuted but again this is unverified.

[n11186]

What ACS are alledging is not that you downloaded the songs/films in question, but that you made them availaible (via a bit torrent client), if you bought the CD in question thats fine and you are allowed to listen to it but you are not allowed to rip it and allow the files to be downloaded (which is what ACS are alledging).

 

So the fact you may or may not own the DVD's/CD's in question and have receipts is irrelevant I'm afraid.

 

Of course pigs will fly before ACS actually take someone to court and prove the allegation against them

 

Andy

So how can i be guilty of making this SH*TY scooter track availaible from my connection when i had no idea it was been down-loaded from my connection, this is like getting your credit card stolen when you are asleep and saying i should of none in my sleep it was stolen and stoped it. If ACS think they are getting any dosh out of me i would like to say GOOD LOOK i will fight them all the way to the E.U courts if i have to.:x