ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[tommyboy22]

i think its just random selection hoping people will panic into paying this so called compensation , dont get me wrong i think there will be quite a few people who will pay up, there are many people out there with un secured wireless networks which is in itself not illegal the same with anti virus installed on their pc , and while this is the case there will always be very resonable doubt , do you think that acs law will pay for an indipendant expert to visit your home to scrutinize your hard drive? also what if your have recently replaced your hdd because it had failed there will be no trace of any of this so called game there anyway, i think we need to find out if our details were given to these vultures without our knowledge and then cancel out internet providers service immediatly.. it also says on my letter that my isp was cable internet ltd and not virginmedia, also do your think its also legal for a minor to sign a declaration not to do it again? all i say is dont pay a penny to them just send a very brief letter of denial then call your isp to ask did they give any details out if they did cancel their service immediatly..if you pay not only will you be admitting your guilt but more importantly you will be targeted again if this legal [problem] is financially successful it will not end at there, i also believe the majority of people didnt download this game but have other downloads on their pc which they dont want discovering and thats why i think they will pay, this is intimidation of a sickining kind....maybe an ex-employee gave out details that virginmedia are aware of and dont want to expose it? or it could be an ex-emplyee of this lyons solicitors...something stinks and i hope watchdog investigate again.....

[Delta82]

Someone left this comment on TorrentFreak ....

 

You need to take this more seriously, and realise that the company involved is playing for millions and is a law firm. They have already made you ISP dance to their tune, so they won’t have much trouble with you. Homespun wisdom about innocence and guilt could cost you a lot of money. Firstly, it is not a criminal action, but a civil action - so the standard is not ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, but is ‘on the balance of probabilities’. And against that yardstick you’ve probably lost already as the High Court has accepted that it should force an ISP to release your details.

You should immediately seek legal advice from a law firm with a good IP track record and who are versed in the Davenport-Lyons case - like Lawdit or DMH Stallard, to do what you can to hamper the legal challenge.

You should then make contact with your MP, MEP, the police and the press. There are some bigger issues where I believe this case can be won or lost. My understanding is that under EU law the company concerned needs to prove reasonable suspicion of a criminal offence, but their whole MO is based on threat of a civil action. As these orders are still going to the High Court, maybe a challenge can be made to one of them on this basis. Secondly, it seems that at least some of your personal data was obtained by Davenport-Lyons, but is now in the hands of ACS:Law, who don’t appear to have a Data Protection Act registration. So perhaps a challenge can be mounted on misuse of data.

Thirdly, you should write to the local and national press, BBC, Sky, etc. But be careful. Davenport-Lyons put their case to the press very eloquently, and you don’t want to appear as a grubby forger fighting their righteous crusade. Don’t make too much of your guilt or innocence, but the fact that this company stands to make £12m each round of threatening letters which is disproportionate to any losses that could have been incurred, and that because of the lack of legal clarification this is a blackmailer’s charter. Point out that the age of likely offenders means that parents all over the country are now in the blackmailer’s notebooks and stand to lose their savings. Point out that other EU countriess have outlawed this practice. ACS:Law WANT you to be little. Think carefully, and thing bigger….

[car2403]

Someone left this comment on TorrentFreak ....

 

You need to take this more seriously, and realise that the company involved is playing for millions and is a law firm. They have already made you ISP dance to their tune, so they won’t have much trouble with you. Homespun wisdom about innocence and guilt could cost you a lot of money. Firstly, it is not a criminal action, but a civil action - so the standard is not ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, but is ‘on the balance of probabilities’. And against that yardstick you’ve probably lost already as the High Court has accepted that it should force an ISP to release your details.

You should immediately seek legal advice from a law firm with a good IP track record and who are versed in the Davenport-Lyons case - like Lawdit or DMH Stallard, to do what you can to hamper the legal challenge.

You should then make contact with your MP, MEP, the police and the press. There are some bigger issues where I believe this case can be won or lost. My understanding is that under EU law the company concerned needs to prove reasonable suspicion of a criminal offence, but their whole MO is based on threat of a civil action. As these orders are still going to the High Court, maybe a challenge can be made to one of them on this basis. Secondly, it seems that at least some of your personal data was obtained by Davenport-Lyons, but is now in the hands of ACS:Law, who don’t appear to have a Data Protection Act registration. So perhaps a challenge can be mounted on misuse of data.

Thirdly, you should write to the local and national press, BBC, Sky, etc. But be careful. Davenport-Lyons put their case to the press very eloquently, and you don’t want to appear as a grubby forger fighting their righteous crusade. Don’t make too much of your guilt or innocence, but the fact that this company stands to make £12m each round of threatening letters which is disproportionate to any losses that could have been incurred, and that because of the lack of legal clarification this is a blackmailer’s charter. Point out that the age of likely offenders means that parents all over the country are now in the blackmailer’s notebooks and stand to lose their savings. Point out that other EU countriess have outlawed this practice. ACS:Law WANT you to be little. Think carefully, and thing bigger….

 

But, alas, we can't challenge this interpretation as it wasn't a poster from CAG.

 

Sorry, what value is this adding, other than putting further frighteners in to peeps, please?

[Delta82]

Valid point Car2403 but IMOit puts another spin on things so to speak

 

I would look at it as someone taking a more serious view and have some valid points of what ACS are doing but I agree it raised my blood pressure a touch after reading as there is a air of truth to it.

 

Also I noticed your near Newcastle... me 2

[andydd]

But, alas, we can't challenge this interpretation as it wasn't a poster from CAG.

 

Sorry, what value is this adding, other than putting further frighteners in to peeps, please?

 

I have to agree that maybe certain people should take it a bit more seriously, most of the posts here have been quite sensible but other forums have lots of posts along the lines of Ignore it, ACS arnt registered anymore so can safely be ignored, its a total [problem] - its not real, etc

 

Some people have openly admitted that they did indeed download the item in question, although many of us may not agree with the present copyright laws and the way davenport lyons and now ACS have gone about this, these laws are very real and can be acted upon and the copyright owner does have the right to claim (or try and claim) damages from you...I never thought id see the day that the Pirate bay would be found guilty due to their absolute belief in what they were doing was ok and legal...(Of course PB is appealing so this isnt over).

 

This is all clouded by the fact that 99% of posters are proclaiming their innocence, and without knowing the details its my impression that the majority of them are telling the truth.

 

It is worth pointing out that there have been at least 4 succesful cases where davenport lyons did win in court, these would appear to be cherry picked cases where they won by default, they choose people who ignored every letter and not suprisingly when issued with court proceedings they didnt turn up either and thus davenport lyons won by default and claimed huge amounts, although its unclear if they ever received any of this money.

 

Lets hope this case starts to get wider media attention.

[penumbra]

It is worth pointing out that there have been at least 4 succesful cases where davenport lyons did win in court, these would appear to be cherry picked cases where they won by default, they choose people who ignored every letter and not suprisingly when issued with court proceedings they didnt turn up either and thus davenport lyons won by default and claimed huge amounts, although its unclear if they ever received any of this money.

 

While I broadly agree with every other point you make, it's a bit of a misnomer to say they have "won" anything.

 

You cannot "win" if there has not been a contest. No contested case has been seen in court. The judge had no choice in the the cases heard so far.

[tommyboy22]

i totally agree , but i dont give a toss about probability there still must be some kind of hard evidence and if the case of the 70 year old couple being accused of downloading gay german porn what are the probability of that happening ? these letters are just to scare people into paying the first wave of hard cash... far too many loopholes for me , just gunna write a short letter to these **** to deny the ridiculus charge and see what happens...i couldnt give a sh*t what they threaten no sane jude in his right mind will try this...just scare tactics....dont pay a penny if you do they will hunt you down again..no one person who denied the davenport lyons letters ever got to court..these are not court letters like they want you to believe...****......

[mr.ton]

I see this thread has gone down from 70 or so guests to just 6.

Until Monday morning that is no doubt

[andydd]

While I broadly agree with every other point you make, it's a bit of a misnomer to say they have "won" anything.

 

You cannot "win" if there has not been a contest. No contested case has been seen in court. The judge had no choice in the the cases heard so far.

 

That is very true..maybe I should of made that clearer, apparently of the few they chose to take action against, anyone who did contest it they quickly dropped that case..as many have pointed out, on the face of its kind of a simple money making scheme.

[Delta82]

Over at torrentfreak there was a post about the legal document from the high court ... there is a few errors but how much that holds is doubtful and a possible clutch at straws so to speak.

 

http://www.acs-law.org.uk/images/rea3.pdf

 

There is also this

 

Proceedings Before the Masters – Chancery Division

ROOM TM7.08

Before CHIEF MASTER WINEGARTEN

Monday 11th May 2009

At 11 o'clock

Topware Interactive Inc v Be Un Ltd

 

Credit to "The Judge" and "Say what" over at TF for the snippets.

Edited May 10, 2009 by Delta82

[jd47804]

I wonder in 3 months time will the ACS Law firm will be representing another game, music or movie company and go through the same process and send letters out to many people once again who I guess most of them are worried up to their heads by now.

 

 

So far, I have only heard people receiving letter for two world, pinball and call of whatever game. Don't seem anyone received letters on the Digiprotect claims:

 

http://www.acs-law.org.uk/images/dig2.pdf

 

Could this be next?

 

I agree Watchdog and Which? need to be altered.

 

I thnk those DL/ACS guys know this can't be a sustainable money milking scheme + other software (like Altari)/porn companies will realise this is not good PR. Also £600 per pop could easily bankrupt someone, if this happens, it would be something else.

[count orlok]

certainly a good reason not to buy the game.

[tommyboy22]

i think the best course of action is a very brief letter of denial as i have said before i know i didnt download this game ive checked my pc to confirm what i already know so why did i get the letter ..thats the worrying thing..the letter i received is unbelievably amatuer i mean you cant dictate how much compensation is due also having a section for a minor to sign too, this is a moneymaking scheme and it will be crushed of that im sure....

[jd47804]

I have to agree that maybe certain people should take it a bit more seriously, most of the posts here have been quite sensible but other forums have lots of posts along the lines of Ignore it, ACS arnt registered anymore so can safely be ignored, its a total [problem] - its not real, etc

 

Some people have openly admitted that they did indeed download the item in question, although many of us may not agree with the present copyright laws and the way davenport lyons and now ACS have gone about this, these laws are very real and can be acted upon and the copyright owner does have the right to claim (or try and claim) damages from you...I never thought id see the day that the Pirate bay would be found guilty due to their absolute belief in what they were doing was ok and legal...(Of course PB is appealing so this isnt over).

 

This is all clouded by the fact that 99% of posters are proclaiming their innocence, and without knowing the details its my impression that the majority of them are telling the truth.

 

It is worth pointing out that there have been at least 4 succesful cases where davenport lyons did win in court, these would appear to be cherry picked cases where they won by default, they choose people who ignored every letter and not suprisingly when issued with court proceedings they didnt turn up either and thus davenport lyons won by default and claimed huge amounts, although its unclear if they ever received any of this money.

 

Lets hope this case starts to get wider media attention.

 

 

Ah the Pirate Bay case, may be that's why those guys think it is the time to get the money printing machine out again.

 

Sorry to sweat "whether ACS is legit or exist" point again, if someone is employing lawdit to look at their case, it might be worth asking them whether they aware of the fact ACS Law in Hanover Sq. does not exist in Company House and the implications:

 

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/434a036d851307b91296134e126ea08b/compdetails

Whereas there is another law firm with a similar name to ACS is Manchester which was dissolved in March 2009.

 

ACS London must have been trading for a while:

 

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?Dubai_ruling_proves_our_innocence&in_article_id=417604&in_page_id=34&in_a_source=

 

Very puzzling indeed..

[tommyboy22]

yer never thought of that it does seem a bit of a coincidence its just after what happened to pirate bay..hmmmmmm.....its also a bit dubious that the firm employed to find the isp address is outlawed in a few european countries too...

[Superjonboy]

I still believe there to be something fishy about the whole situation.

 

I read on Lawdit that someone (TorrentFreak) has been in contact with "ACS:Law" and indeed they are now working for Davenport Lyons anthey are handling all the P2P piracy cases. The person contacted at ACS:Law was simply named Lee.

 

That makes it all official then.

 

There's no way someone could have masqueraded as this company by setting up a similar domain name, using a different phone number and then once contacted obviously confirming it's all legitimate is there .

Coupled with the recent change of tennant/movement activity at this address.

 

It still begs the question why Terence Tsang is involved and why one of the so called senior partners of the firm hasn't come forward and released some kind of official statement.

 

I've drafted my letter of denial, as I've never downloaded the game. Infact it looks to be the type of game that drives me absolutely mad. I'm a championship manager/Pro Evo player. Oh and Brian Lara. All of which I have on PS/xbox. I use my computer for web design and I also have a recording set up. My wireless connection is also secure so in my eyes theres no way that game can have been downloaded by anyone using my internet connection. Not to mention the fact I'm in a part of the country where we're still only on 1mb broadband at the very best of times. The game at a stated 1.3Gb or 1307.01 (i presume in Mb) as they put it, would have taken ages to download, not something I have the patience for. Then there's the question of computer specs. I have a laptop and a desktop. The desktop I built in 2001 and is seriously out dated in terms of gaming. IT is however sufficient for my web design and office documents. My laptop is one of the first which came with Vista pre installed and as such has the equivalent processing power of a hamster running in a ball!

I tried to install Tiger woods golf on it and it just started crying!!!

[Superjonboy]

Please give your attention to the following.

 

Heptonstalls Solicitors. Lawyers for you and your business across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire This is a firm in my local area. They actually do the same kind of work as ACS Law were previously known to carry out i.e Family Law, Medical Negligence e.t.c.

 

1. Look at their website quality. This represent a professional outfit.

 

2. The domain name www.heptonstalls.org.uk is available and I could register it this second and have website up and running in less than an hour.

 

3. The office based in Pontefract hs a telephone number with the same area code and only a few different digits to mine. I'll simply put my number on the website and say this is the one for specific "P2P piracy claims."

 

4. This is the bit I'm not sure about. How easy is it for me to set up a bank account in the name of Heptonstalls which will be used specifically for the purposes of recieveing payments from the P2P claims. Some forged documents or the like? I'm guessing not rocket science.

 

5. I'll produce some letters identical to ACS Law which I recived. I don't even need to change the address because all that will be sent there will be letters of denial. I'll let the real firm deal with those, while I sit back and collect a bit of money from people who pay up with no questions asked.

 

6. As stated before i'll used my phone number and also the new email address which is now [email protected] because the majority of people will either phone or email rather than get a pen and paper out.

 

 

DISCLAIMER: Please note this is just and example of what I think is happening. Heptonstalls are a reputable company. This is only an example of what can be done. I would NOT even atempt this. The post is merely to make others aware.

[Delta82]

Ive still a issue with the IP Adress thing.. someone over at digital spy mentioned a few questions and while mulling them over No 2 is bold as that's maybe whats happened with some of us perhaps...? or if anyone can shed any light on the questions or answer them

 

 

Credit to morphocypris at digital spy

 

1. Is it possible for an IP address to change without your knowledge during the year?

2,. Is this "new " IP address you get from a "pool" of IP address numbers that may or may not have previously belonged to someone else ?

3. How far does an ISP go to trace all owners of an IP Address on a certain date?

4. Is the search Number and date driven?.

5. Does the ISP just pass on the name and address of the holder , or does the ISP support the name address with records of the duration of that number against the address on the date in question ?

6.Does the ISP provide the owner of the data a copy of exactly what data it has passed on?

[WelshMam2009]

Please give your attention to the following.

 

Heptonstalls Solicitors. Lawyers for you and your business across Yorkshire and Lincolnshire This is a firm in my local area. They actually do the same kind of work as ACS Law were previously known to carry out i.e Family Law, Medical Negligence e.t.c.

 

1. Look at their website quality. This represent a professional outfit.

 

2. The domain name www.heptonstalls.org.uk is available and I could register it this second and have website up and running in less than an hour.

 

3. The office based in Pontefract hs a telephone number with the same area code and only a few different digits to mine. I'll simply put my number on the website and say this is the one for specific "P2P piracy claims."

 

4. This is the bit I'm not sure about. How easy is it for me to set up a bank account in the name of Heptonstalls which will be used specifically for the purposes of recieveing payments from the P2P claims. Some forged documents or the like? I'm guessing not rocket science.

 

5. I'll produce some letters identical to ACS Law which I recived. I don't even need to change the address because all that will be sent there will be letters of denial. I'll let the real firm deal with those, while I sit back and collect a bit of money from people who pay up with no questions asked.

 

6. As stated before i'll used my phone number and also the new email address which is now [email protected] because the majority of people will either phone or email rather than get a pen and paper out.

 

 

DISCLAIMER: Please note this is just and example of what I think is happening. Heptonstalls are a reputable company. This is only an example of what can be done. I would NOT even atempt this. The post is merely to make others aware.

 

It's a perfectly valid example of how such scams work I agree.

 

The issue here, is that this doesn't appear to be just random targeting of individuals in the hope that they will cough up.

 

I read on another forum that Virgin Media have confirmed that they have supplied details of IP addresses to ACS as they were threatened with legal action. The debate there is whether piracy is a criminal or civil offence and whether or not Virgin were right to disclose.

 

My argument would be that only the Crown can pursue criminal prosecutions and hence, it must be civil, in which case, I would be inclined to say that Virgin were wrong to disclose details.

 

Nonetheless, I'm sure they have access to very expensive lawyers who appear to have told them differently!!

[cerberusalert]

There's no debate as to whether Virgin or any of the other ISPs should or shouldn't have supplied the information, they were ordered to by the court so they had no option. Some of the ISPs are in court today in fact see post #235

 

Here is a copy of the court order; http://www.acs-law.org.uk/images/rea3.pdf

[WelshMam2009]

There's no debate as to whether Virgin or any of the other ISPs should or shouldn't have supplied the information, they were ordered to by the court so they had no option. Some of the ISPs are in court today in fact see post #235

 

Here is a copy of the court order; http://www.acs-law.org.uk/images/rea3.pdf

 

Wow Cerber..I'm impressed..you've really got your finger on the pulse!!

[andydd]

Ive still a issue with the IP Adress thing.. someone over at digital spy mentioned a few questions and while mulling them over No 2 is bold as that's maybe whats happened with some of us perhaps...? or if anyone can shed any light on the questions or answer them

 

 

Credit to morphocypris at digital spy

 

1. Is it possible for an IP address to change without your knowledge during the year?

2,. Is this "new " IP address you get from a "pool" of IP address numbers that may or may not have previously belonged to someone else ?

3. How far does an ISP go to trace all owners of an IP Address on a certain date?

4. Is the search Number and date driven?.

5. Does the ISP just pass on the name and address of the holder , or does the ISP support the name address with records of the duration of that number against the address on the date in question ?

6.Does the ISP provide the owner of the data a copy of exactly what data it has passed on?

 

All we know so far about the IP harvesting process is the brief info that ACS give out.. (from their FAQ)

 

How has my data been captured?

Our expert IT consultants (the “Monitors”), use a sophisticated software program (the “Monitoring Program”) to locate an individual’s IP address in circumstances where the Work (as defined in the Letter of Claim) is being made available by an individual (the “User”) from his or her personal or office computer and which is connected via the internet to a peer to peer network

 

 

Why does my current IP address not match the one given as evidence in the letter of claim?Your ISP may have assigned a dynamic IP address to your Internet connection, which can change over time for a variety of reasons. This may explain why you may not now have the same IP address as any of those listed on page one of the letter of claim. The fact remains that at the time in question, your ISP has identified you as being the internet subscriber linked to that address.

 

 

 

 

The first answer doesnt explain anything apart from introducing the dubious and scary sounding terms 'Monitors' and 'Monitoring Program'..

 

As to the second, well..many people have mentioned that their ISP gives out dynamic IP address (i.e they are liable to change), BUT this would mean that companies like Virgin Media and other dynamic ISP's would need to have a huge database of not only current IP's and addresses of the users but ALL previous ones, so of course there could well be mistakes made in this data which would lead to the wrong people being accussed, so ACS are totally relying on the accurcy of the data from the ISP and it's not really in their interest to play ball and alienate their customers is it ?

 

it would be interesting to find out how long this data is held for, perhaps a DPA/SAR request to your ISP would uncover this answer ?

 

On a lighter note I'm struggling to find the connection between copyright theft and getting caught shagging on a middle eastern beach !

 

Andy

Edited May 11, 2009 by andydd

[mr.ton]

At the end of the day, ACS can bamboozle everyone with specifics until the cow comes home...

They are not entitled to a penny off anyone with the court say so 1st & even then, only once all the person outgoings have been taken into account.

It will also cost them money taking so many people to court.

Hardly worth their while to just get back £1 per month if anything at all.

Thats the top & bottom of it basically.

[Delta82]

Ive been checking over the Slyck forum and it seems ACS Law are not registered under the DPA so what that means is a puzzle in itself so to speak to me lol due to being fairly under educated in the practices of law and the data protection act etc

 

In honesty contacting Virgin is pointless as they wont part with any info other than the usual we were given a court order blah blah blah but worht a shot I suppose.

[andydd]

Ive been checking over the Slyck forum and it seems ACS Law are not registered under the DPA so what that means is a puzzle in itself so to speak to me lol due to being fairly under educated in the practices of law and the data protection act etc

 

In honesty contacting Virgin is pointless as they wont part with any info other than the usual we were given a court order blah blah blah but worht a shot I suppose.

 

I saw that mentioned to, IF they now holding large amounts of personal data, (i.e IP addresses and the corresponding (or not !) home addresses then they should indeed be registered with the ICO, perhapos something worth pursuing.