ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[Delta82]

I would like to make this post as a thank you to all who have contributed and got involved in this.

 

What started out as a simple case of some friendly advice has now turned into something a lot bigger than I first imagined...

 

Its opened my eyes to a lot things concerning matters like this and how to deal with them and in the process can now help others if need be...

[sduffield]

I personally believe that ACS:Law is in fact Davenport Lyons, but trying to pass themselves off as ACS Law (the one registered with the Law Society). This could be the reason as to all the strange changes in domain name, domain registration details etc.

 

When I called the number yesterday, the receptionist advised that there were several solicitors in the building available to take my call, but the Law Society only lists 2 solicitors in that practice.

[andydd]

I would like to make this post as a thank you to all who have contributed and got involved in this.

 

What started out as a simple case of some friendly advice has now turned into something a lot bigger than I first imagined...

 

Its opened my eyes to a lot things concerning matters like this and how to deal with them and in the process can now help others if need be...

 

Your welcome...Ive learnt a lot too, although I do recall seeing the original DL case on Watchdog I wasnt paying much attentioin.

 

Incidently its still available online (an 8 min video clip) if you go to the Watchdog site, Ill try and post a link to it.

 

Andy

[tommyboy22]

watched the watchdog clip on line yesterday and the letters in the clip are carbon copies of the one i received. i think an ex employee is responsible somewhere in this for want of a better word legit [problem].....

[mr.ton]

Now,now...your forbidden from using the word "[problem]" in this thread....they are in a posh office block in central London,wear expensive suits & have been to the High Court didnt you know

[tommyboy22]

how about the word ****.....like compare the merecat.com

[andydd]

Heres the original Watchdog clip.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2008/12/davenport_lyons_threatening_le.html

I wonder why suddenly its all been resurected by ACS ?

 

It seems that Davenport Lyons gave up because of mounting pressure from Watchdog, Which magazine made a complaint to the OFT about them and Atari withdrew when it became clear that at least one innocent person was being chased.

 

Maybe ACS are desperate in these credit crunch times ?

Andy

[jd47804]

If you are suggesting its me then I'm afraid you are very wrong but Ive just been looking at sites discussing this topic and have been worried at the duff advice handed out, mostly along the lines of 'Its a [problem], ignore it'. This is very foolish as it has lead to a few cases where Davenport Lyons won by default when the accused didnt turn up to the court cases, I would hate that to happen to anyone here, this hasnt been helped by Virgin Media, who in many cases have told people who phone up conflicting informatiion.

 

If anyone has received one of these letters the following links may help.

 

Slyck.com • View topic - DL/ACS:law - I've received a letter, what should I do?

 

Have you received a letter from Davenport Lyons? - Page 35 - Cable Forum

 

Andy

 

The Slyck.com links make lots of sense, thank you Andy. Guys it is really worth reading.

[andydd]

how about the word ****.....like compare the merecat.com

 

Simples

[mr.ton]

I honestly could not care less what DL's or ACS's intentions or reasons are.

My only aim is to ensure that not 1 person in this country pays them a penny without court authorisation 1st.

Im posting on other well known consumer forums as well to try & get my message across.

Sadly..i wont reach everyone, but the more i do reach out to,so to speak - the better

[andydd]

The Slyck.com links make lots of sense, thank you Andy. Guys it is really worth reading.

 

No worries..Yep..Its the intelligent response to these muppets.

 

If anyone is looking for a template letter its almost all there. I would have a go a putting a complete letter together myself but as Im not involved and it has the potential to be quite serious Ill leave it to someone better qualified.

[tommyboy22]

tbh i think if we can get the same draft letter we can all send to them it would really p*ss them off.....

[SomeRandomGuy21]

DO NOT ignore these letters, they are indeed real:

 

ACS Law and the Letter of Claims - Copyright Law Articles and News - Lawdit Reading Room

[Delta82]

there's also this from that same site : What to do when you receive a letter of claim - Copyright Law Articles and News - Lawdit Reading Room

 

Looks like I'm a one man band for now as I don't have £ 230 + to hire the solicitor... bugger.

[swoopsta]

there's also this from that same site : What to do when you receive a letter of claim - Copyright Law Articles and News - Lawdit Reading Room

 

Looks like I'm a one man band for now as I don't have £ 230 + to hire the solicitor... bugger.

 

Me and you both Delta82

 

So stressed and angry, me and the missus have been arguing all day about this and what to do.

[porkiepiepig]

I wonder in 3 months time will the ACS Law firm will be representing another game, music or movie company and go through the same process and send letters out to many people once again who I guess most of them are worried up to their heads by now.

 

I wonder in 3 months time will ACS Law use the undertakings that they would have collected from people who might of signed it and be used against them on possible future cases.

 

I wonder why the game company they are representing is now selling their game but an epic edition version on a game site under a fiver then days later the letters were sent out with a demand figure of 665 pounds.

 

Why not half it without the undertakings form to be signed or ask the people who they sent these letters too to buy this game at this cheap price.

 

I wonder if the Cable Broadband services like Virgin media will be liable for giving their customers name and address to the ACS Law and should have notified their customers on what information they gave out, is it not the customers right to prepare a defence or advice months ahead instead of the 21 days notice to decide and reply that is stated on the ACS letter?.

 

What if lets say ACS was not a so called legit law firm that people state they are and were a criminal organisation and knew where we live.

 

Sorry for all this wondering about but its time for people and like some of you's has said Watchdog to know what is happening and the sooner the better.

Edited May 9, 2009 by porkiepiepig

[ThePostman]

I am very new to this forum but realise it is very informative, two questions that have entered my head this afternoon follow.

 

1. How do ACS know that the file that has allegedly been downloaded is actually the 'work' refered to in their letters, files are often given rogue names when on p2p.

 

2. If they do know,they must or someone on there behalf bust have downloaded it if so surely they were also breeching the law that they are stating has been broken.

 

Is there a standard letter of response that we can send to ACS with cc to Watchdog, Cit advice, consumer groups etc.

 

Please feel free to tell me if I am stupid!

[swoopsta]

‘New’ Anti-Piracy Lawyers Chase UK File-Sharers | TorrentFreak

 

Comment 45 - Apparently some replies from ACS on here to questions posed, doesnt seem like they care about the link being made to DL, or about any possible bad press

[tommyboy22]

i think what they are hoping for is to get as many initial payers to cough up out of sheer fright and panic enough to sit comfortably on their thrones counting the cash and not really go through a drawn out legal process in which in the end will result it being laughed out of court, it believe its hard to prove you didnt download this crap software but far harder and incredibly expensive to them to prove you did....

[matt314]

I'm one of the people that have received a letter recently.

 

Been reading through this thread and the associated links for the last few hours.

 

I've gathered together the links I found most helpful below, hope they help.

 

Personally I've come to the conclusion that the letters are legit, so don't just ignore them. But the IP address alone is not sufficient to prove infringement.

I'll be drafting a letter refuting the claims (based on one of the links below).

 

It seems daft to me that you should just pay up (and practically admitting to the offense by signing the undertakings). But I can understand that many people would since the tone of the letter is aggressive.

 

First Watchdog

 

BBC - Watchdog: Davenport Lyons - threatening letters

 

The best link to read regarding the response letter

 

Slyck.com • View topic - DL/ACS:law - I've received a letter, what should I do?

 

The solicitor, Micheal Coyle at lawdit

 

- Law Articles and News - Lawdit Reading Room

 

and

 

What to do when you receive a letter of claim - Copyright Law Articles and News - Lawdit Reading Room

 

Good details from someone at comment #31 here

 

‘New’ Anti-Piracy Lawyers Chase UK File-Sharers | TorrentFreak

[Delta82]

If you didn't do it:

 

Either write a short letter denying their claims yourself, or get a solicitor to do it for you. In the three years that this sort of thing has been going on nobody who has replied and denied their accusations have ended up in court.

 

 

• Keep it brief. Their evidence is not as strong as they like to make out and they know that. Previously, people have been sending letters back and forth for months (years in some cases) debating points of evidence. The briefer it is the less protracted your correspondence is likely to be.
  
  • Make a point to specifically deny breaching the parts of the CDPA 1988 which they allege were breached using your connection. It is usually sections 16(1)(d) and 20 of the act. (It might also be worth noting that, section 16(2) of the act requires you to directly infringe copyright, or authorise someone else to do so. )
    
  • It might be an idea to write something along the lines of "I have never possessed a copy of the work in any form, nor have I distributed it, or authorised anyone else to distribute it using my internet connection.", obviously changing it for your specific situation.
    
  • There is no law in the UK under which they could sensibly hold you responsible for someone using your internet connection, without your knowledge, for illegal activity. Failing to secure your wireless or keep your anti virus up to date is not illegal.
    
  • Note that if you read the letter carefully they don't accuse you of committing the infringement. The only say an infringement occurred which was allegedly traced to your connection. This subtle point is important to grasp. They have no evidence you did anything, and admit as much. You should remind them of this. Loudly.
    

   

  [*]If you are writing your own letters, it may be an idea to inform them you are levying a charge (of say £50 per letter) on any future correspondence which will form part of a counter claim. There are provisions in the civil procedure rules (specifically section 52, rule 48.6) regarding how much a lay person defending themselves can charge. It will not deter them from pursuing the matter, but at least you will be able to claim expenses if you win in court. Keep thorough records of how much time you are taking researching the matter and writing letters. It might be an idea to put a sentence in your letter reading something like "Please inform your clients that if they wish to pursue this matter, I will seek to recover all my costs to the maximum permitted by the Civil Procedure Rules.".

  [*]From past experience, they almost certainly will not listen. Instead, they will simply try and intimidate you further. If it was a self drafted letter they will probably tell you to seek representation (or tell you to stop taking advice from internet forums), and they will almost certainly make claims of successful cases awarding them £16,000. Despite the quotes from David Harris in that article, this case (involving the mysterious Ms. Barwiniska) was entireley undefended and not contested in any way, so it is worthless as a precident. They could have asked for a million bajillion pounds in the shape of a swan, and the judge would have awarded them it. Keep your head. Repeat your denials, ask them for full evidence and if you feel out of your depth, contact a solicitor and ask for legal advice.

Taken from http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=45330

[andydd]

I am very new to this forum but realise it is very informative, two questions that have entered my head this afternoon follow.

 

1. How do ACS know that the file that has allegedly been downloaded is actually the 'work' refered to in their letters, files are often given rogue names when on p2p.

 

2. If they do know,they must or someone on there behalf bust have downloaded it if so surely they were also breeching the law that they are stating has been broken.

 

Is there a standard letter of response that we can send to ACS with cc to Watchdog, Cit advice, consumer groups etc.

 

Please feel free to tell me if I am stupid!

 

1. I do belive that the IP tracing company claims to have downloaded the whole game and checked it, on the Lawdit site it then goes on to question the fact that there are inconsistancies in the amount of time they claim certain IP addys were logged on for..(i.e people were logged on for 10 seconds, not long enough to upload/download an entire game)

 

2. They would claim that they can legally download as they have the copyright owners permission, there is a post on the 2 worlds site where a member of 2 worlds staff confirms that they did give this permission to the companies involved, not sure if it actually mentioned ACS, but they wernt the investigating company that was Logistep..in Germany ?

Edited May 9, 2009 by andydd

[andydd]

‘New’ Anti-Piracy Lawyers Chase UK File-Sharers | TorrentFreak

 

Comment 45 - Apparently some replies from ACS on here to questions posed, doesnt seem like they care about the link being made to DL, or about any possible bad press

 

6. These cases got hugely messy for Davenport Lyons and it’s only a matter of time

before ACS Law accuses a pensioner or child of downloading porn, or makes other errors. Are you concerned that you, your partner and/or your company will be bought into disrepute by taking these cases on? NO

 

His reply says it all really..im flabbergasted at their arrogance and I hope to read of their downfall very soon.

[tommyboy22]

i know for a fact that i didnt download this game as i dont play computer games of any kind so i am 100% sure there is no trace of the game in question on my pc but what concerns me that they seem to be randomly sending these threatening letters to mainly virginmedia users hoping to scare people who may have other psp downloads on their pc into paying the so called compensation of which the majority of it will go to these so called solicitors..i strongly believe they just want the first round of payments if you think about it 10,000 letters sent 10% of people paying up = £665,000.00 not bad for a weeks work.. i wont pay a penny.. i hope watchdog runs this legit [problem] investigation again..this whole episode is despicable must be a slow year for fraudulent accident claims.....

[SomeRandomGuy21]

Even if the ISP's gave out the IP addresses because of court order, could they not at least have told us in writing? Plus mine says NTL Internet gave out my IP on 20/03/2008, but hadn't Virgin Media already taken over? Hence this is no real evidence as they got my IP from a company that didn't even exist!!!