ACS:Law copyright file sharing claims, Gallant Macmillan - and probably some others along the way...

[car2403]

my isp is virginmedia and not cable internet ltd as stated in my letter.....also if any laws were broken then this should be a criminal matter shouldnt it?

 

Not if it's done at order of the Court

 

The Data Protection Act allows companies to obtain information for criminal matters ..If you google for it, i think its section 35.

 

That section was repealed by the DPA 1998

[mr.ton]

Anyone who turns up in court armed with only a belief that they are right and that the courts ALWAYS do whats best for the individual would be rather foolish.

 

Not saying that the courts are always right..far from it - merely stating that the whole court "system" is designed in favour of the person who is having action brought against them.

Think the human rights act plays a part in ther somewhere

[penumbra]

The Data Protection Act allows companies to obtain information for criminal matters ..If you google for it, i think its section 35.

 

This isn't a criminal matter

 

But yes, there are massive holes in the DPA for the release of data for "the pursuance of justice" or words to that effect.

 

Other EU countries have tightened it up to only allow release for criminal matters, but the UK still allows it for civil matters.

 

You're broadly correct, tho

[andydd]

Dont worry..im sure many other "new sign ups" will be along soon also to defend you as well

 

I'm trying to help people and provide valuable advice, all you have done is rant n rave and offend people.

 

Im not a new sign up, i joined a few months back mainly to investigate Credit Agreements and have obtained invaluable advice and am now clearing my debts and am only paying back my credit cards at 10 a month instead of 100s.

 

Hey..If you want to believe I was someone planted here many months ago by ACS and that Ive been waiting all this time for some bizarre reason that upto you but I think you will soon make a fool of yourself.

 

Andy

[Superjonboy]

Am I the only one here to question the involvement of a know cybersquatter?

 

I want to know what involvement Terence Tsang has with Davenport Lyons or ACS:Law

 

Why do they also have a .org.uk name which are reserved for Charities?

Edited May 9, 2009 by Superjonboy
additional info on point

[Delta82]

Am I the only one here to question the involvement of a know cybersquatter?

 

I want to know what involvement Terence Tsang has with Davenport Lyons or ACS:Law

 

Why do they also have a .org.uk name which are reserved for Charities?

 

You have a valid point but needs more confirmation and solid evidence of why and how hes involved .

 

There is is also the issue of some Virgin employees knowing there was a court order and some not

 

There is also the Davenport linked with ACS issue and also the contact form hyperlink taking you to a google search page...

 

But such is life

[andydd]

This isn't a criminal matter

 

But yes, there are massive holes in the DPA for the release of data for "the pursuance of justice" or words to that effect.

 

Other EU countries have tightened it up to only allow release for criminal matters, but the UK still allows it for civil matters.

 

You're broadly correct, tho

 

Thats what I thought yesterday so i did look at the DPA but I couldnt really get my head around it, its not really clear (to me anyway) wether it applies to civil matters, anyway a judge thought it was ok hence the reason why ISPs began dishing out the info, although some have now claimed that they would/should of sent a letter to the customer too, this clearly hasnt happened.

Edited May 9, 2009 by andydd

[Superjonboy]

You have a valid point but needs more confirmation and solid evidence of why and how hes involved .

 

There is is also the issue of some Virgin employees knowing there was a court order and some not

 

There is also the Davenport linked with ACS issue and also the contact form hyperlink taking you to a google search page...

 

But such is life

 

Did you see my earlier post with the notesonevidence document I downloaded and screen captured?

His name is in the author field and the company is Davenport Lyons.

 

Also with .org.uk being reserved for not for profit organisations surely this suggest ACS Law are working at only an administrative cost and not for profit.

[penumbra]

Thats what I thought yesterday so i did look at the DPA but I couldnt really get my head around it, its not really clear (to me anyway) wether it applies to civil matters, anyway a judge thought it was ok hence the reason why ISPs began dishing out the info, although some have now claimed that they would/should of sent a letter to the customer too, this clearly hasnt happened.

 

We sent a letter to the ICO trying to get them to issue guidance on the legality, and prevent the future release of data

The ICO responded with a "It's legal, complain to the ISP/MP/anyone but us no go away".

 

From their response letter:

Section 35 (1) of the DPA provides that, ‘Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court.’

 

This exemption from the ‘non-disclosure provisions’ of the DPA includes an exemption from the first data protection principle, except where that principle requires compliance with the conditions for processing personal data found in Schedule 2 of the DPA, and the conditions for processing sensitive personal data contained in Schedule 3.

 

In the circumstances outlined in your correspondence it would appear that the Schedule 2 condition for processing personal data found in paragraph 3 would be applicable, where;

 

“The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal

obligation to which the data controller is subject, other than

an obligation imposed by contract.”

 

The relevant Schedule 3 condition for processing sensitive personal data would appear to be that found in paragraph 6 of that Schedule, applicable in circumstances where;

 

“The processing –

 

(a) is necessary for the purpose of, or in connection with,

any legal proceedings (including prospective legal

proceedings),

(b) is necessary for the purpose of obtaining legal advice,

or

© is otherwise necessary for the purposes of establishing,

exercising or defending legal rights.”

 

Accordingly, whilst I appreciate your comments and concerns with regard to the proportionality of the disclosures which appear to be being made to Davenport Lyons Solicitors in the circumstances of your complaint, such disclosure of personal data, when made pursuant to a court order, would appear compliant with the requirements of the DPA.

Edited February 11, 2010 by IdaInFife
removed external link

[andydd]

Guys,

 

I (and the rest of the site team) have been watching this progress with interest.

 

It does seem very unusual, though you all seem to be on top of what is needed to deal with this effectively.

 

A few pointers from me;

 

 

 

Agreed, remember though that civil cases have a lower standard of proof than that required in a criminal case. Criminal cases require proof beyond reasonable doubt, but in civil cases that is on the balance of probabilities.

 

In other words, is it more probable that you did download this stuff and breach copyright that it is improbable that you didn't.

 

There's an important distinction to be made here - if (and this is a really, REALLY, big "if") they do have expert evidence showing that you did do this, you'd have to throw so many questions on that evidence to show that it is improbable (note, not impossible) that you did what has been stated.

 

 

 

I have to say, I agree somewhat with andydd, here.

 

This could be termed a "[problem]", or it could not.

 

The simple fact is, they could bring civil proceedings against you and you should be prepared to defend it - if you fail to reply to a letter before action and a court claim is issued which is ignored, you will find yourself with a CCJ against you. Yes, you could get it set aside, (if you can show that CPR Part 13 applies) but defending a claim would be far easier than setting a CCJ aside.

 

For me, this is a [problem], but one that you should all be prepared to battle against.

 

I've noticed a few members asking about templates for responses - as this is something new to CAG, we don't have those for these instances to my knowledge, at this time.

 

Cheers for that, my main point for avoiding the S word is that it tends to imply that it can just be ignored much like the pesky spam we all get all the time, but this shouldnt be the case here.

 

The Slyck site i linked to elsewere has 'almost' template letters if anyone is interested, I think they use info mainly provided by Lawdit, who were involved previously against Davenport Lyons.

 

Andy

[Delta82]

Did you see my earlier post with the notesonevidence document I downloaded and screen captured?

His name is in the author field and the company is Davenport Lyons.

 

 

HMMMM

 

[tommyboy22]

exactly...this whole matter stinks can you explain why there is no action being taken by the big corporations??? just some pokey little firm of east europeans, they are all in it together to rip decent people off financially and frighten them in paying for something they may or more likely didnt do, as im pretty sure couples in their 70s wont be downloading gay german porn let alone know how to file share anyway....

[SomeRandomGuy21]

Anyone else find it strange that the 'number of guests online' on the ACS:LAW website is longer there?

 

http://www.acs-law.org.uk/

 

They have made many changes to their website these past hours!!! They've started adding images too!

Am I right in believing that this is a newly made site? And what is the involvement of the known 'cybersquatter' Tsang?

Can someone also tell me what a 'cybersquatter' is please

Edited May 9, 2009 by SomeRandomGuy21

[andydd]

We sent a letter to the ICO trying to get them to issue guidance on the legality, and prevent the future release of data

 

The ICO responded with a "It's legal, complain to the ISP/MP/anyone but us no go away".

 

From their response letter:

 

God..The ICO are pretty hopless.

 

I wonder IF ANY requests to ISP's for data have ever been refused ?

 

Im sure I could think of a reason to obtain info because i MAY have thought a crime had been commited or that i was about to persue some kind of civil claim, I wonder if I would get the info i asked for.?

 

It seems the law is lacking in this area, or judges arnt paying enough attention, I wonder how much detail judge winegarten required before agreeing to force the ISP's involved hand over the info. ?

 

Andy

Edited February 11, 2010 by IdaInFife
removed external link

[Superjonboy]

HMMMM

 

 

It just seems wrong. I want to know if he is an employee of theirs or not.

If he isn't nor is he at ACS:Law or ever worked as some kind of consultant with either company then something really doesn't add up.

[SomeRandomGuy21]

Does anyone here live in London? If so, is anyone planning on visiting the London office on Monday?

Let me know please!!

[andydd]

exactly...this whole matter stinks can you explain why there is no action being taken by the big corporations??? just some pokey little firm of east europeans, they are all in it together to rip decent people off financially and frighten them in paying for something they may or more likely didnt do, as im pretty sure couples in their 70s wont be downloading gay german porn let alone know how to file share anyway....

 

In the previous DL cases i believe that the companies concerned did only receive a small fraction of the money, i think it was the porn company who thought that the 'downloaders' were being asked for 50 quid or so and were suprised that it was hundreds.

 

One piece of advice from Micheal Coyle/Lawdit is that IF you do think you downloaded the item mentioned is to find out how much it costs and to agree to pay them that amount. Obvioulosy this would involve some sort of admittance so think carefully before doing this.

 

Andy

[car2403]

as im pretty sure couples in their 70s wont be downloading gay german porn let alone know how to file share anyway....

 

Is it a civil wrong to download gay german porn?

[tommyboy22]

im definitely considering a small letter to these vultures to deny all charges and see what happens...i just hope no-one harms themselves worrying about this fiasco...

[Superjonboy]

In the previous DL cases i believe that the companies concerned did only receive a small fraction of the money, i think it was the porn company who thought that the 'downloaders' were being asked for 50 quid or so and were suprised that it was hundreds.

 

One piece of advice from Micheal Coyle/Lawdit is that IF you do think you downloaded the item mentioned is to find out how much it costs and to agree to pay them that amount. Obvioulosy this would involve some sort of admittance so think carefully before doing this.

 

Andy

 

What if you didn't download it or even have the P2P client on your computer at anytime?

 

I want to know how easy it would be to pose as an ACS law partner and contact Sky, Virgin Media, e.t.c to get the Ip details. Presenting certificates originally granted to Davenport Lyons over a year ago in most cases.

 

There's something not right about it. Everywhere on the internet ACS law is given the .co.uk domain ending which in my opinion they have merely used for email.

 

Why do they suddenly have a new website registered in the name of a known cybersquatter, with a different domain ending .org.uk? Why is the website constantly updating to cover up mistakes pointed out on here and other forums?

 

If Davenport Lyons/ACS Law employed this Terence Tsang would it be sufficient for him to knock up a website in Joomla in a few hours with most of the old documentation from Davenport Lyons?

 

Someone needs to come forward from this Law firm and speak to the media.

[andydd]

Does anyone here live in London? If so, is anyone planning on visiting the London office on Monday?

Let me know please!!

 

The wierd thing is when I checked the adress i found out my office is next door..!

 

Well..not actually next door coz the square numbering system is a bit wierd but I think no.18 is over the road opposite.

 

Its recently been takien over and has been advertising office space so I think ACS may be new tenants, there is a main reception downstairs by the looks of it and is prob like my building, ie.containing 4 or 5 companies..this is why previous posters said that typing in the postcode throws up more than 1 company.

 

If anyone wants any general info Ill be happy to help.

 

Tubes are Oxford Circus or Bond Street

 

Two nice pubs few yards away.

 

Loop club has nice girls on roller skates giving out flyers

 

Jalouse club is opposite, you may see some celebs fall out if ya lucky, but prob only if you visit at 4am !

 

Green Hut does cheap cooked food

 

Square has nice park to sit n have lunch (when sun comes out), its also ideal place to draw up ACS attack plan.

 

Ill have a look monday and see if there is any sign of ACS anywhere but i cant recall seeing one.

 

Andy

[tommyboy22]

dear car2403 only if its badly dubbed..and has moustached boiler suited plumbers in close attendance....

[car2403]

dear car2403 only if its badly dubbed..and has moustached boiler suited plumbers in close attendance....

 

Lock me up now!

[andydd]

What if you didn't download it or even have the P2P client on your computer at anytime?

 

I want to know how easy it would be to pose as an ACS law partner and contact Sky, Virgin Media, e.t.c to get the Ip details. Presenting certificates originally granted to Davenport Lyons over a year ago in most cases.

 

There's something not right about it. Everywhere on the internet ACS law is given the .co.uk domain ending which in my opinion they have merely used for email.

 

Why do they suddenly have a new website registered in the name of a known cybersquatter, with a different domain ending .org.uk? Why is the website constantly updating to cover up mistakes pointed out on here and other forums?

 

If Davenport Lyons/ACS Law employed this Terence Tsang would it be sufficient for him to knock up a website in Joomla in a few hours with most of the old documentation from Davenport Lyons?

 

Someone needs to come forward from this Law firm and speak to the media.

 

Sorry i should make it clear thats only one option, the main advice is as Blackadder would say 'Baldrick..Deny everything'..

 

Slyck.com • View topic - DL/ACS:law - I've received a letter, what should I do?

 

Quite clearly if you didnt download the item they claim they DONT pay them a penny.

 

I agree although ACS do seem legit there seems to be something wierd going on with names n stuff, I would of thought that being unsure as to who was asking for the money would be reason enough on its own not to pay up

 

Andy

[tommyboy22]

this credit crunch must certainly be biting for these protectors of honor and loyalty to circling like vultures to a soon to be expired corpse, plenty of life left in us yet.. just wished i lived close to their offices so i could pay a visit.....really hope people do go monday for a friendly chat though.....