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    • Hi all,    I have read all the threads about CLI (Credit limits international) regarding fines from minor traffic offences in Florence Italy but I wonder if anyone actually faced some serious issues by ignoring the letters? Did any bailiffs knocking on the door, any court hearings, credit scores affected etc?   In my case, it is for a traffic offence in Florence and entering a traffic limited zone in 2015. CLI claims that their client is the Firenze Municipale and they are collecting the debt on their behalf. However, I have (as many others) never received the first or any notification from the Italian traffic police itself.  I called them and as stated in many online websites - they confirmed that the final notification is sent by registered post and needs to sent within 360 days of when they received my contact details by the rental company. The most odd thing is that the Firenze Municipale also mentioned that they hold no records of old fines so that makes me really wonder how they can act on behalf of the police when they don't have any records of it? Also worth mentioning is that, there are many errors on the original fine CLI has sent me, there are slightly different amount stated on each page.    If they have bought the debt than it would be fraud by claiming that they act on behalf of a client.   I know many are saying to ignore it and they have no authority to take further legal actions, however they are a member of CSA (note I have spoken to FCA and they confirmed they do not regulate traffic offences so they do not need to be registered there) so I would think they can enforce it.    Does anyone have any experience and how far did CLI take it? I have no problem paying the original fine as I never was notified but they are claiming more than 4 times and I doubt you can negotiate.    Thanks!    
    • Fined for exceeding the free parking period.   I can’t found the form the other posters have filled out with details of fine etc but it happened on the 3rd September issue date 7th September. I received the fine on the 16th September but this is delayed, I imagine, due to my car being a car hire so was alerted to it my.    Shopped at Lidl, have proof of shopping with my Apple Pay but not a physical receipt.    Looking back with Google maps there are signs saying customer parking but no obvious terms.   Having read some posts on here, I have written to the CEO, included proof of shopping etc and am waiting for their reply.    Feeling hopeful but also anxious I will end up having to deal with Athena and they seem like hideous people to deal with.    Any advice greatfully received.    Attached fine    Email I sent to CEO (havehad no confirmation that they have received the email) christian.haertnagel@lidl.co.uk (hope this is the current ceo) below.     Dear Christian,   I hope this finds you healthy and well in this unprecedented time.   I have recently moved to SE9 from NW3 and having been a religious online grocery shopper, spending large amounts with Ocado, please see attached document. Since moving to SE9, having recently bought a car, the current financial climate & having more options for our grocery shopping, we decided to start shopping at Lidl in Eltham having heard good things.  We have gone in there a few times now and, so far, we are pleased with the produce we come home with & the customer service experience. Also this branch has a lot of house hold goods, clothing, gardening and recently DIY equipment, lots to look through.   Our visit on the 3rd September, we must have taken longer than we realised. We were there with friends and they were doing a big shop, us not so big this time and afterwards we even signed up for Lidl Plus, please see attached document, so we were really pleased.   Today I was shocked to receive a, very un, Civil Parking Charge Notice for being in the car park 21 minutes over the the 90 minute free parking, please see notices attached below. We had no idea this free parking restriction even existed and there centrally wasn’t any adequate signage to alert us in our arrival.   Please find proof of our purchase attached, please note the time of the purchase 16.38 and the notice states we departed the car park at 16.42.   We trust that this will be addressed, so that your customers can park, at least, knowing what the parking terms are before they choose to park and shop in your store.   As valued & loyal customers this is unfair and we kindly ask that you tell Athena to cancel this charge.   Thank you for your time in addressing this matter.  
    • Uploaded revised defence for review/comment Link Kearn Defence Rev1.pdf
    • Anyway, about time it was said straight   The Governments' claimed 'Capacity figures aren't 'interpretations,' they are outright lies Capacity by definition is "the ability to receive or contain" - and its collapsing at little more than 80,000 a day at best. There may be 120,000ish 'tests' - but Governments own figures as stated quite clearly state 81,000 people tested a day (is that best, or average?)   So by definition and example (artificially holding back results to boost a single days figures aside) - 80,000ish a day would seem to be the actual true capacity of the UK's testing system to test people - even if certain parts of it MIGHT theoretically be capable of more  
    • The CMA has today published further detail on its views on the law in relation to cancellations and refunds during the pandemic. View the full article
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    • @curryspcworld @TeamKnowhowUK - Samsung 75 8K TV - completely broken by Currys. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/426151-samsung-75-8k-tv-completely-broken-by-currys/&do=findComment&comment=5069075
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    • I’m in desperate need of help
       
      I bought some clothes online in may through Evans and paid through PayPal
      returned them all seven days later
       
      I waited the 14days for my refund and no refund came
      I put in a dispute through PayPal but I didn’t get any emails to escalate the case - PayPal closed it. 
      evans said they couldn’t refund the money because PayPal have cancelled the refund because of the open dispute
       
      I contacted PayPal
      they said the dispute had been closed but Evans at no point had attempted a refund.
      fast forward to today
       
      I’ve got copies of numerous messages sent to and from twitter messages as it’s the only way I can contact them
      I’ve also contacted their customer service too
      all I get is PayPal have cancelled refund because dispute is still open.
       
      I have proved that the dispute is closed
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      I’m literally at the end of my tether and don’t know where to turn next !
       
      i suffer with mental health issues and this is affecting my health and I’d saved the money for a year to buy these clothes as I’m on a low income .
    • In desperate need of help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/425244-in-desperate-need-of-help/&do=findComment&comment=5067040
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Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice


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Ok so here it is in full:

 

Let's isolate the spin from the facts, and then maybe invite the esteemed Times for correction (small print bottom of page 76 below the Court circular no doubt) i

I agrees with some of your comments, but I find some of your comments about CMCs quite offensive. I am involved in a CMC and have commented on here before that not all CMCs are bad. I do not exploit anyone I help people in need and we do not charge any fees to enable them to get the same results that people on here have done for themselves. What is so bad in that? I use this website as I find it fascinating and inspiring to read what others have done and continue to do.

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I agrees with some of your comments, but I find some of your comments about CMCs quite offensive. I am involved in a CMC and have commented on here before that not all CMCs are bad.

 

Hello Demonbarb and welcome to the forum.

 

I am sorry you find my comments offensive.

 

For clarification I would point out that I am referring to the ambulance chasers who have been censured and fined for their outlandish claims by the FSA/OFT rather than the genuine CMCs out there doing good work on behalf of people who simply do not have the time or the savvy to manage their own claims.

 

Your company must be one of those who takes a slice of the settlement figure since you do not charge any fees. You surely do not work on these cases for free???

 

If you do please post your number.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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...if not then at least the name of your reputable firm?

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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AC where did you get this article please?

 

I take it this was not MG commenting?

 

As for the reporting of 'the' historical judgement :rolleyes:, wish they'd asked if they didnt understand!

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Just look at who owns the Times and the kind of people who getto write these stories. Anybody care to hazard a guess as to why newspaper articles are called stories ?

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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However goods is given wide meaning in law to include money.

 

Is there anything an LIP can use in Court to back up the above assertion ? Is there a definition or a case ref ? It would be really useful to have. Or is it just common knowledge ? ...

Edited by shakespeare62

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

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Is there anything an LIP can use in Court to back up the above assertion ? Is there a definition or a case ref ? It would be really useful to have. Or is it just common knowledge ? ...

 

Shakespeare makes a good point (I think), one of us at some time is going to come up against a DJ not particularly savvy where it counts and will need a quick response to a direct question if he/she has misinterpreted the recent ruling.

 

Anyone have a suitable para of case law to direct toward?

 

Gez

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I think most of the comments where made by RBS shareholders....;)

LIBM

 

 

Marc Gander wrote:

This article completely misstates the effect of the judgment.

The effect of the judgment is that the agreement is unenforceable so that the money is not recoverable at law. However the legal unenforceablity does not prejudice the rights of the lender to continue non-judical methods of attempting the recover the money, of entering defaults onto the credit register etc. Furthermore, the customer would not normally be entitled to complain of harassment in respect of normal debt collection practices or make complaints under the Consumer (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regs 2008 etc.

In other words, the lender can still pile on the pressure but can't take any formal action to get their money back.

To say that customers will now be obliged to repay is entirely wrong."

 

AC

 

Hi AC, I was referring to:

 

Yes, they do have to pay. The gist of the argument would appear to be that since they took the money, the agreement IS enforceable; if they want it not to be they will have to return what they borrowed.

 

A reasonable decision for once. These were just immoral people looking for permission to steal.

.

Seems to be the right decision, particularly if there was nothing at all underhand, or unscrupulous behaviour by the lender at the time the original contract was made. The borrower would surely have understood from the outset what were the obligations, including payment of interest?

To later start grubbing around for some technicality to avoid legitimate and freely entered into obligations is entirely immoral.

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Enforcement is given a rather limited defintion, of land and goods. However goods is given wide meaning in law to include money.

 

Well I guess arguably money is "goods" - for example debts can be sold as property under s136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 - which applies to Notices of Assignment

 

Comments anyone ?

Edited by shakespeare62

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i wonder what francis benyon makes of this?

hes the guy who wrote the 1974 consumer credit act incidentally he also writes in the times on occasion

heres his website

Francis Bennion - Home Page

i think hes contactable through his website too, but dont quote me on that

just a thought

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He is contactable

 

Though at 86 it would be better if we could all put a form of words together so that one person and one person alone contacts him.

 

On the matter of money as goods I'm onto this and will post soon.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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Well unfortunately I've found the precise opposite but there may be some case law in which the meaning of goods has been settled by a superior court. The CCA uses the term and my thinking is that Bennion must have meant money to be included in goods.

 

You can be damn sure that if the banks wanted goods to mean money it wouldn't be long before Flaux ruled that it does.

 

Here's the depressing authority:

 

HC Black Black's Lav Dictionary 6th ed West Publishing Co, Minnesota 1990 Also see BA Garnerl Díctionary of Modern Legal Usage Oxford University Press, New York 1987 p258: Goods has a variety of senses

 

- "in the legal sense goods refers to chattels or personalty". HAJ Ford GrW Hinde MS Hinde Australian Business Dictionary Butterworth's, Sydney 1985 p87: Goods is defined as moveable propely. The Sale of Goods Acts defure goods as all chattels personal other than money or things in action

 

Further:

 

“goods” [F2includes all personal chattels, other than things in action and money, and as regards Scotland all corporeal moveables; and in particular “goods” includes] emblements, industrial growing crops, and things attached to or forming part of the land which are agreed to be severed before the transfer [F2bailment or hire]concerned or under the contract concerned F3. . .;

 

Looks like I might have to revisit my earlier expressed opinion that goods excludes money. Why would Bennion use the term in a clause on unenforcability?

 

Section 189 of the CCA 1974 States that

 

“goods” has the meaning given by section 61(1) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 ;

 

The definition is that given above. Sorry to build people's hopes up and then dash them. Goods does not include money. At least we know that now rather then when it really matters.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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Hello Demonbarb and welcome to the forum.

 

I am sorry you find my comments offensive.

 

For clarification I would point out that I am referring to the ambulance chasers who have been censured and fined for their outlandish claims by the FSA/OFT rather than the genuine CMCs out there doing good work on behalf of people who simply do not have the time or the savvy to manage their own claims.

 

Your company must be one of those who takes a slice of the settlement figure since you do not charge any fees. You surely do not work on these cases for free???

 

If you do please post your number.

 

 

It is not correct to state that a company who does not charge any up front fees must necessarily take a slice of the settlement figure.

CMC's typically work with solicitors who work on a conditional fee agreement basis (no win no fee) and when a solicitor wins a case under such an arrangement he is allowed to claim a success fee of up to 100% of his costs from the lender.

The CMC usually has an arrangement with the solicitor that a proportion of this success fee is then paid by the solicitor to the CMC and this is where the CMC generates an income.

In many cases the solicitor also has to pay a fee to the CMC for the privelidge of taking on the case.

IMHO the CMC's charging the client up to 30% of whatever they manage to clear as a debt are completely immoral as they are still leaving the borrower with a substantial debt and there is no need to do that as if they are successful like they claim to be they will be raking in the success fees.

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The Times article mentions Ultimate Law and its my guess the Times journo just wrote what they told him. It was Ultimate Law who started all the 'false stay' reports back in May after Judge Halbert called the case management conference in Chester.They really do have a knack for getting everything wrong

 

Maybe Ultimate Law should read Ultimate Flaux (Flaw, Faux...):D

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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CMC's typically work with solicitors who work on a conditional fee agreement basis (no win no fee) and when a solicitor wins a case under such an arrangement he is allowed to claim a success fee of up to 100% of his costs from the lender. The CMC usually has an arrangement with the solicitor that a proportion of this success fee is then paid by the solicitor to the CMC and this is where the CMC generates an income.

 

Fair point well made. But I do have an animus against those that are taking a slice out of any settlement.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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Hi AC, I was referring to:

 

 

I always disregard any and all narrow minded, brain dead commemts, letitbeme!

 

Having read the McGuffick case judgement five times now, I was surprised that the Times journalist misreported the case.

Clearly, he/she had not read it or, did not understand it; CCA matters as we know are complex...

 

AC

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He is contactable

 

Though at 86 it would be better if we could all put a form of words together so that one person and one person alone contacts him.

 

 

Yes! I totally agree, the only person that could interpret Flaux's ruling should be Francis Bennion the master has written extensively on the following:

 

Section 1. To ‘construe’ or ‘interpret’?

Section 2. Interpreter’s duty to arrive at legal meaning

Section 3. Real doubt as to legal meaning

Section 8. Duty to obey legislation

Section 9. Ignorantia juris neminem excusat

Section 10. Mandatory and directory requirements

LIBM

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I have been working under the impresion that unlawful penalties are recoverable even if there is an apparantly outstanding (though unenforceable and written off) debt on the account.

 

Could someone please enlighten me if this is indeed the case?

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The court also found that demanding payment, issuing a default notice, threatening legal action and bringing legal proceedings did not constitute enforcement either. ..................

 

 

What the hell?

 

What exactly DO they consider enforcement to be then?

 

Are we all completely screwed due to this ruling?

 

(though the point they argued on seems VERY, VERY, weak)

 

This needs some serious discussion!

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Based on the above piece about CRA's, the DPA might as well not exist

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Credit Management & Debt Collection Business Industry News

 

The above view appears to show the view held by the financial industry!

 

 

2. the following activities will not be regarded as "enforcement" for the purposes of the CCA:

 

· reporting the status of any account to a credit reference agency (CRA);

· demanding payment from the debtor;

· issuing a default notice to the debtor;

· threatening legal action;

· instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise seek to procure payment;

· bringing proceedings against the debtor.

 

 

· bringing proceedings against the debtor.

Not enforcement, OK what is enforcement?

 

Legal Dictionary

 

Main Entry: en·force·ment

Function: noun

: the act or process of enforcing

 

Legal Dictionary

 

Main Entry: pro·ceed·ing

Function: noun

1 : a particular step or series of steps in the enforcement, adjudication, or administration of rights, remedies, laws, or regulations: as a : an action, hearing, trial, or application before the court

 

LIBM

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