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    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
    • The world of ballroom dancing went online to cope with the pandemic restrictions, but what does the future hold? View the full article
    • I would add, many companies have done everything possible to manage and carry on in difficult Covid19 circumstances to supply customers with what they need.   Continually making excuses for delays is not what I'd want from an installer and maybe the £100 deposit is not so important.   Get this deposit back if you can but, more importantly, find a local installer recommended by family or friends to carry out the works.
    • Hello all,   I hope you can assist me, as I am quite lost and confused at the moment.   Two years ago I moved to my actual flat. Throughout this time I have been with EDF first and now EON. When I moved in, my landlord didn't quite know which one was my meter and I picked the one that I believed was mine (now reading you I know I should have done a burner test..). During this time, I have been paying my bills and submitting the numbers that I believed mine, which actually agreed with my consuming patterns.   Today, all the meters appeared with numbers, but the one next to the one that I was using, which appeared with a different flat number. As you might have guessed, none of them had my flat number. I have just made the test and it looks like that one may be mine.   Now, how should I proceed? I have been paying bills is not like I wanted to avoid paying, but clearly there has been an issue. Could you please advice me on how to proceed?   Lastly, in terms of meter serial number, the one that I was using matches my bill and I guess my neighbor bill. The additional doubt I have is, who is paying for my meter and why are they still providing me with gas if no one is paying the one that seems to be my real meter.   Many thanks!    
    • Hi J,   You must decide what's your priority - make the gym honour what you were offered originally (perhaps trying to draw you in) ................   ............... or pay what they're now demanding to get the srvice you want.   Surley it's worth a go ?
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
      • 3 replies
    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
        • Thanks
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Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice


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Ok so here it is in full:

 

Let's isolate the spin from the facts, and then maybe invite the esteemed Times for correction (small print bottom of page 76 below the Court circular no doubt) i

I agrees with some of your comments, but I find some of your comments about CMCs quite offensive. I am involved in a CMC and have commented on here before that not all CMCs are bad. I do not exploit anyone I help people in need and we do not charge any fees to enable them to get the same results that people on here have done for themselves. What is so bad in that? I use this website as I find it fascinating and inspiring to read what others have done and continue to do.

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I agrees with some of your comments, but I find some of your comments about CMCs quite offensive. I am involved in a CMC and have commented on here before that not all CMCs are bad.

 

Hello Demonbarb and welcome to the forum.

 

I am sorry you find my comments offensive.

 

For clarification I would point out that I am referring to the ambulance chasers who have been censured and fined for their outlandish claims by the FSA/OFT rather than the genuine CMCs out there doing good work on behalf of people who simply do not have the time or the savvy to manage their own claims.

 

Your company must be one of those who takes a slice of the settlement figure since you do not charge any fees. You surely do not work on these cases for free???

 

If you do please post your number.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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...if not then at least the name of your reputable firm?

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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AC where did you get this article please?

 

I take it this was not MG commenting?

 

As for the reporting of 'the' historical judgement :rolleyes:, wish they'd asked if they didnt understand!

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Just look at who owns the Times and the kind of people who getto write these stories. Anybody care to hazard a guess as to why newspaper articles are called stories ?

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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However goods is given wide meaning in law to include money.

 

Is there anything an LIP can use in Court to back up the above assertion ? Is there a definition or a case ref ? It would be really useful to have. Or is it just common knowledge ? ...

Edited by shakespeare62

Please note that the right to reproduce any part of any post I make on this forum is restricted under copyright law and litigation privilege

 

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Is there anything an LIP can use in Court to back up the above assertion ? Is there a definition or a case ref ? It would be really useful to have. Or is it just common knowledge ? ...

 

Shakespeare makes a good point (I think), one of us at some time is going to come up against a DJ not particularly savvy where it counts and will need a quick response to a direct question if he/she has misinterpreted the recent ruling.

 

Anyone have a suitable para of case law to direct toward?

 

Gez

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I think most of the comments where made by RBS shareholders....;)

LIBM

 

 

Marc Gander wrote:

This article completely misstates the effect of the judgment.

The effect of the judgment is that the agreement is unenforceable so that the money is not recoverable at law. However the legal unenforceablity does not prejudice the rights of the lender to continue non-judical methods of attempting the recover the money, of entering defaults onto the credit register etc. Furthermore, the customer would not normally be entitled to complain of harassment in respect of normal debt collection practices or make complaints under the Consumer (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regs 2008 etc.

In other words, the lender can still pile on the pressure but can't take any formal action to get their money back.

To say that customers will now be obliged to repay is entirely wrong."

 

AC

 

Hi AC, I was referring to:

 

Yes, they do have to pay. The gist of the argument would appear to be that since they took the money, the agreement IS enforceable; if they want it not to be they will have to return what they borrowed.

 

A reasonable decision for once. These were just immoral people looking for permission to steal.

.

Seems to be the right decision, particularly if there was nothing at all underhand, or unscrupulous behaviour by the lender at the time the original contract was made. The borrower would surely have understood from the outset what were the obligations, including payment of interest?

To later start grubbing around for some technicality to avoid legitimate and freely entered into obligations is entirely immoral.

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Enforcement is given a rather limited defintion, of land and goods. However goods is given wide meaning in law to include money.

 

Well I guess arguably money is "goods" - for example debts can be sold as property under s136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 - which applies to Notices of Assignment

 

Comments anyone ?

Edited by shakespeare62

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i wonder what francis benyon makes of this?

hes the guy who wrote the 1974 consumer credit act incidentally he also writes in the times on occasion

heres his website

Francis Bennion - Home Page

i think hes contactable through his website too, but dont quote me on that

just a thought

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He is contactable

 

Though at 86 it would be better if we could all put a form of words together so that one person and one person alone contacts him.

 

On the matter of money as goods I'm onto this and will post soon.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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Well unfortunately I've found the precise opposite but there may be some case law in which the meaning of goods has been settled by a superior court. The CCA uses the term and my thinking is that Bennion must have meant money to be included in goods.

 

You can be damn sure that if the banks wanted goods to mean money it wouldn't be long before Flaux ruled that it does.

 

Here's the depressing authority:

 

HC Black Black's Lav Dictionary 6th ed West Publishing Co, Minnesota 1990 Also see BA Garnerl Díctionary of Modern Legal Usage Oxford University Press, New York 1987 p258: Goods has a variety of senses

 

- "in the legal sense goods refers to chattels or personalty". HAJ Ford GrW Hinde MS Hinde Australian Business Dictionary Butterworth's, Sydney 1985 p87: Goods is defined as moveable propely. The Sale of Goods Acts defure goods as all chattels personal other than money or things in action

 

Further:

 

“goods” [F2includes all personal chattels, other than things in action and money, and as regards Scotland all corporeal moveables; and in particular “goods” includes] emblements, industrial growing crops, and things attached to or forming part of the land which are agreed to be severed before the transfer [F2bailment or hire]concerned or under the contract concerned F3. . .;

 

Looks like I might have to revisit my earlier expressed opinion that goods excludes money. Why would Bennion use the term in a clause on unenforcability?

 

Section 189 of the CCA 1974 States that

 

“goods” has the meaning given by section 61(1) of the Sale of Goods Act 1979 ;

 

The definition is that given above. Sorry to build people's hopes up and then dash them. Goods does not include money. At least we know that now rather then when it really matters.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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Hello Demonbarb and welcome to the forum.

 

I am sorry you find my comments offensive.

 

For clarification I would point out that I am referring to the ambulance chasers who have been censured and fined for their outlandish claims by the FSA/OFT rather than the genuine CMCs out there doing good work on behalf of people who simply do not have the time or the savvy to manage their own claims.

 

Your company must be one of those who takes a slice of the settlement figure since you do not charge any fees. You surely do not work on these cases for free???

 

If you do please post your number.

 

 

It is not correct to state that a company who does not charge any up front fees must necessarily take a slice of the settlement figure.

CMC's typically work with solicitors who work on a conditional fee agreement basis (no win no fee) and when a solicitor wins a case under such an arrangement he is allowed to claim a success fee of up to 100% of his costs from the lender.

The CMC usually has an arrangement with the solicitor that a proportion of this success fee is then paid by the solicitor to the CMC and this is where the CMC generates an income.

In many cases the solicitor also has to pay a fee to the CMC for the privelidge of taking on the case.

IMHO the CMC's charging the client up to 30% of whatever they manage to clear as a debt are completely immoral as they are still leaving the borrower with a substantial debt and there is no need to do that as if they are successful like they claim to be they will be raking in the success fees.

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The Times article mentions Ultimate Law and its my guess the Times journo just wrote what they told him. It was Ultimate Law who started all the 'false stay' reports back in May after Judge Halbert called the case management conference in Chester.They really do have a knack for getting everything wrong

 

Maybe Ultimate Law should read Ultimate Flaux (Flaw, Faux...):D

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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CMC's typically work with solicitors who work on a conditional fee agreement basis (no win no fee) and when a solicitor wins a case under such an arrangement he is allowed to claim a success fee of up to 100% of his costs from the lender. The CMC usually has an arrangement with the solicitor that a proportion of this success fee is then paid by the solicitor to the CMC and this is where the CMC generates an income.

 

Fair point well made. But I do have an animus against those that are taking a slice out of any settlement.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

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Hi AC, I was referring to:

 

 

I always disregard any and all narrow minded, brain dead commemts, letitbeme!

 

Having read the McGuffick case judgement five times now, I was surprised that the Times journalist misreported the case.

Clearly, he/she had not read it or, did not understand it; CCA matters as we know are complex...

 

AC

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He is contactable

 

Though at 86 it would be better if we could all put a form of words together so that one person and one person alone contacts him.

 

 

Yes! I totally agree, the only person that could interpret Flaux's ruling should be Francis Bennion the master has written extensively on the following:

 

Section 1. To ‘construe’ or ‘interpret’?

Section 2. Interpreter’s duty to arrive at legal meaning

Section 3. Real doubt as to legal meaning

Section 8. Duty to obey legislation

Section 9. Ignorantia juris neminem excusat

Section 10. Mandatory and directory requirements

LIBM

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I have been working under the impresion that unlawful penalties are recoverable even if there is an apparantly outstanding (though unenforceable and written off) debt on the account.

 

Could someone please enlighten me if this is indeed the case?

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The court also found that demanding payment, issuing a default notice, threatening legal action and bringing legal proceedings did not constitute enforcement either. ..................

 

 

What the hell?

 

What exactly DO they consider enforcement to be then?

 

Are we all completely screwed due to this ruling?

 

(though the point they argued on seems VERY, VERY, weak)

 

This needs some serious discussion!

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Based on the above piece about CRA's, the DPA might as well not exist

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Credit Management & Debt Collection Business Industry News

 

The above view appears to show the view held by the financial industry!

 

 

2. the following activities will not be regarded as "enforcement" for the purposes of the CCA:

 

· reporting the status of any account to a credit reference agency (CRA);

· demanding payment from the debtor;

· issuing a default notice to the debtor;

· threatening legal action;

· instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise seek to procure payment;

· bringing proceedings against the debtor.

 

 

· bringing proceedings against the debtor.

Not enforcement, OK what is enforcement?

 

Legal Dictionary

 

Main Entry: en·force·ment

Function: noun

: the act or process of enforcing

 

Legal Dictionary

 

Main Entry: pro·ceed·ing

Function: noun

1 : a particular step or series of steps in the enforcement, adjudication, or administration of rights, remedies, laws, or regulations: as a : an action, hearing, trial, or application before the court

 

LIBM

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