Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice

[SteEqWar]

I am very pleased you won yesterday SEW & would be interested to read the judgment when it comes through.

 

However, just to clarify, as the case was heard in the County Court unfortunately it doesn't set a legal precedent although it could be referred to by other claimants/defendants but a DJ is under no obligation to take notice of it.

 

Case was heard by a District Judge

[sequenci]

It does when its heard by a District Judge

 

No, it doesn't. Nearly all cases in County Courts are Heard by District Judges, by the way.

[SteEqWar]

No, it doesn't. Nearly all cases in County Courts are Heard by District Judges, by the way.

please yourself. You know better! at that point i don't think i can be bothered with writing anymore on this website. Fact I won and who should a care about? oh yeah me!

 

A note Courts must follow their own proclamations of law made earlier on other cases, and honor rulings made by other courts in disputes among the parties before them pertaining to the same pattern of facts or events, unless they have a strong reason to change these rulings.

 

I will post it on my own site have a good day

Edited October 24, 2009 by SteEqWar

[sequenci]

please yourself. You know better! at that point i don't think i can be bothered with writing anymore on this website. Fact I won and who should a care about? oh yeah me!

 

I will post it on my own site have a good day

 

Congrats on winning.

 

I'm interested in ensuring that the information on this site is as accurate as it can possibly be.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq.

[frettful38]

I would not cease paying this type of credit agreement an waiting for them to take court action.

I would take the action against the lender. That the terms of the credit agreement are UNFAIR they certainly sound like they are unfair.

 

The problem is that the agreement amount you have is £35,000 the amount should be on what is called an unregulated credit agreement.

 

If the agreement is on the wrong paperwork , which I have seen happen once before with Mercedes Finance where they wrote the agreement on consumer credit act 74 agreement in would look like the agreement doess not match the prescribed terms of law and thus would be unenforable

 

I hope this information helps

 

 

Thanks for the advice SteEqWar,

 

I will not stop paying. I will however wait to see what the Solicitor comes back with.

 

Thank you

[citizenB]

It does when its heard by a District Judge

 

please yourself. You know better! at that point i don't think i can be bothered with writing anymore on this website. Fact I won and who should a care about? oh yeah me!

 

A note Courts must follow their own proclamations of law made earlier on other cases, and honor rulings made by other courts in disputes among the parties before them pertaining to the same pattern of facts or events, unless they have a strong reason to change these rulings.

 

I will post it on my own site have a good day

 

Sorry to see you feel like this. You obviously have a lot to offer the forums. However, other posters are correct. Judgements in County Courts, even heard by a District Judge are merely persuasive.. not precedents.

[SteEqWar]

Congrats on winning.

 

I'm interested in ensuring that the information on this site is as accurate as it can possibly be.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq.

 

And who are you "A Barister"? Your inforamtion will be shockingly wrong if you continue and as you claim you want this site to remain with accurate information.

 

Any case brought before a court can use the merits of any case brought as long as the has similar facts.

 

I can see that you are more interested in discrediting people and it looks like you're more interested in a slanging match. Whats the problem are you jealous that I won and you had not thought of the idea?

 

Fact is no-one has taken there bank to court before for this type of claim.

I have and I won which must mean that I know something.

 

I put it to you that you don't really know an whole lot and no wonder lots of people end up with major problems based on the information on this site.

Courts must follow their own proclamations of law made earlier on other cases, and honor rulings made by other courts in disputes among the parties before them pertaining to the same pattern of facts or events, unless they have a strong reason to change these rulings.

 

Fact is I win my cases, I have the proof I win my cases. Where's yours?

 

Best Wishes

[angry cat]

Depending on who the DJ was?

I believe that the judgement could be followed by others on the same circuit?

 

Don't shoot me if I am wrong.

[Mickiestar]

Mickiestar,

 

What exactly were you hoping to find out here, from caggers?

 

DD

 

Other peoples opinions, views and potential ramifications of Mcguiffick

 

Kraken1 and a few others who I believe have actually read the judgement and understand it like myself can see outside the box and are looking at the bigger picture.

 

As for those who slated me if you disagree with me and state that what I have said is rubbish please do the decent thing and back up what you say with reasoned arguments for why.

 

The Consumer Credit Act is not black and white there are many grey areas in between

 

Kraken1 I will get back to you with the paragraph relating to issue of proceedings not being enforcement

 

However logically the issue of proceedings can never be enforcement on the basis that if it was it would take away the lenders right to argue that the agreement was enforceable in a court of law.

 

Mickie x

[elsinore]

I googled 'precedent county court' and the first result was

 

Legal Directory - UK Solicitors, Barristers, Lawyers

 

Scroll down to the bbottom and you'll find this

 

County Court

The County Court is bound by all decisions of the higher courts, but its own decisions never create precedents.

 

Els

[SteEqWar]

Depending on who the DJ was?

I believe that the judgement could be followed by others on the same circuit?

 

Don't shoot me if I am wrong.

 

No problem AC, The best thing to do is see the judgement when I receive it. I agree anyone is entitled to their opinion. But as for the "sequenci" statement I am of the opinion that he/she would sooner lower the opionion of me by posting something negative about me that could lower other people's of me unless his/her statment in itself is true, The only way of finding that out is by waiting for the judgement. What "sequenci" said could be seen as libel. sequenci worded his comment to indicate that my information is inaccurate and also referenced my job. because there is a case that can be verified and there is an injured party (me) I would expect that "sequenci" withdraw his statement and apologise.

 

The way you wrote yours I have no problems with at all

 

Fine Regards

SteEqWar

[enoughisenough]

Originally posted by SteEqWar

 

I put it to you that you don't really know an whole lot and no wonder lots of people end up with major problems based on the information on this site.

 

Hello SteEqWar

 

Firstly may I congratulate you on your win. You have shown a clear determination to see this through and get the judgment that is fair and correct in all the circumstances of your case.

 

On precedent I am afraid you are wrong and I'm sorry that it has resulted in some exchanges in posts which are not in the spirit of this site.

 

The doctrine of precedence is governed by the doctrine of stare decisis et non quieta movere - meaning that in order to create consistency and certainty in case law courts should stand by their own previous decisions. This even applied to the Law lords themselves until the Practice Direction of 1966 which allowed the Lords to depart from their own previous decisions "where it appears right to do so".

 

In Summary:

 

1. Any decision of the House of Lords is binding on all inferior courts.

2. Any decision of the Court of Appeal is binding on all inferior courts but not on the superior court (In this case the HOL)

3. Any decision of the High Court is binding on all inferior courts (but not on the CoA or the HOL)

4. Any county court decision is merely persuasive rather than binding precedent. County court decisions do not bind other or even the same county court.

 

Hope that clarifies.

 

PS This site and its users are not in as much trouble as you suggest. The reason? We take the care to get things right.

[frettful38]

22 people on this thread!

[sequenci]

And who are you "A Barister"?

Not yet

Your inforamtion will be shockingly wrong if you continue and as you claim you want this site to remain with accurate information.

I'm sorry you feel this way, I'm not here to get into an argument with any of our users. As I mentioned I'm keen to ensure that the laypeople who use this site are aware of how the courts work and what could constitute a legal precedent

Any case brought before a court can use the merits of any case brought as long as the has similar facts.

That I fully understand, I also appreciate that the higher courts are not going to pay much attention to the happenings within the county courts.

I can see that you are more interested in discrediting people and it looks like you're more interested in a slanging match. Whats the problem are you jealous that I won and you had not thought of the idea?

I am pleased you have won your case. I have no interest in slanging matches.

Fact is no-one has taken there bank to court before for this type of claim.

I have and I won which must mean that I know something.

I'm not querying that you've won your case, I simply mentioned that a District Judges decision in a county court holds very little weight in the grand scheme of things.

[Baggio]

Other peoples opinions, views and potential ramifications of Mcguiffick

 

Kraken1 and a few others who I believe have actually read the judgement and understand it like myself can see outside the box and are looking at the bigger picture.

 

As for those who slated me if you disagree with me and state that what I have said is rubbish please do the decent thing and back up what you say with reasoned arguments for why.

 

The Consumer Credit Act is not black and white there are many grey areas in between

 

Kraken1 I will get back to you with the paragraph relating to issue of proceedings not being enforcement

 

However logically the issue of proceedings can never be enforcement on the basis that if it was it would take away the lenders right to argue that the agreement was enforceable in a court of law.

 

Mickie x

 

Why have you failed to post that the McDuff case sets no precedent for 2 reasons....

 

1. Flaux himself stated the ruling on said case was no precedent and that each case will be viewed on its own merits.

 

2. THE AGREEMENT IN QUESTION WAS, I REPEAT, WAS ENFORCEABLE!!!

 

Lets rip apart a ruling based on an UNENFORCEABLE agreement or where a lender has just returned T&Cs with a blank application form as many are now.

 

Why is this issue being completely avoided by certain individual on here?

 

I personally had an egg agreement declared unenforcable in august via the help of a CMC.

 

So maybe so called sols on here are fishing for help, because i know the CMC i use is now being utlised by my friends and family and they recvd an update from the soliciotrs acting for said CMC and they knew exactly what they were talking about with regards to the McDuff case.

 

You would certainly not find them posting on a forum, too many jonny come lately so called solicitors around who have jumped off the conveyancing money train and on to the consumer credit law gravy train. They are a scurge, and actually help the lenders in an obscure way.

 

Good to have this fine thread back btw, not sure if many of you are aware that this was taken down last night for a few hours.

[enoughisenough]

22 people on this thread!

 

Latest update: 26 (24 humans and two trolls:eek:)

 

The cag is busting at the seams! Hope they've got the servers in a cool place!

[B3rty]

AS much as I read the judgement I can't see it being effected by whether the agreement was enforceable or not and ( paraphrasing in quoting) refers the act of enforcement being the judgement not the proceedings and the CRA reporting being a duty...

 

I agree that an unenforceable agreement where nothing was on file could result in something different as the duties would be contained within and therefore no agreement no duties

 

However an unenforceable agreement due to wrong T&Cs would still contain the rights and duties so would still fit the MuGuffick ruling...

 

IMHO......shoot me down....lol

Edited October 24, 2009 by B3rty
typo

[Mickiestar]

I am well aware that the agreement in question was enforceable as they had not disclosed the statement

 

Yes it didn't set a precedent and yes each case will be viewed on its merits (like every case that goes before the courts)

 

However the Mcguiffick decision does have its ramifications whether you like it or not.

 

Can I ask have you actually read the complete judgement and considered the ramifications or have you just focused on the fact that the agreement was enforceable and therefore not bothered to read the rest of it

[Baggio]

AS much as I read the judgement I can't see it being effected by whether the agreement was enforceable or not and ( paraphrasing in quoting) refers the act of enforcement being the judgement not the proceedings and the CRA reporting being a duty...

 

I agree that an unenforceable agreement where nothing was on file could result in something different as the duties would be contained within and therefore no agreement no duties

 

However an unenforceable agreement due to wrong T&Cs would still contain the rights and duties so would still fit the MuGuffin ruling...

 

IMHO......shoot me down....lol

 

wrong T&Cs, maybe

 

in breach of correctly outlining consumer protections in the form of Prescribed terms and therefore unenforceable under sec 127(3)

 

i very much doubt it, read bennions views on this... btw.. he was the chap that wrote the original CCA of 1974.

[B3rty]

Can I ask have you actually read the complete judgement and considered the ramifications or have you just focused on the fact that the agreement was enforceable and therefore not bothered to read the rest of it

[Baggio]

I am well aware that the agreement in question was enforceable as they had not disclosed the statement

 

Yes it didn't set a precedent and yes each case will be viewed on its merits (like every case that goes before the courts)

 

However the Mcguiffick decision does have its ramifications whether you like it or not.

 

Can I ask have you actually read the complete judgement and considered the ramifications or have you just focused on the fact that the agreement was enforceable and therefore not bothered to read the rest of it

 

yes i have and can i ask how much conveynacing work you were doing last year?

 

or were you acting for a DCA?

[angry cat]

No problem AC, The best thing to do is see the judgement when I receive it. I agree anyone is entitled to their opinion. But as for the "sequenci" statement I am of the opinion that he/she would sooner lower the opionion of me by posting something negative about me that could lower other people's of me unless his/her statment in itself is true, The only way of finding that out is by waiting for the judgement. What "sequenci" said could be seen as libel. sequenci worded his comment to indicate that my information is inaccurate and also referenced my job. because there is a case that can be verified and there is an injured party (me) I would expect that "sequenci" withdraw his statement and apologise.

 

The way you wrote yours I have no problems with at all

 

Fine Regards

SteEqWar

 

Just to make it quite clear, I am not taking any sides.

However, I am reminded of another case in which a CC judgement was obtained.

 

The question asked was:

can it be used as a precedent?

 

I replied:

Originally Posted by angry cat

No!

County Court.

 

But it happened.

 

AC"

 

One of the site team responded (along the lines of):

 

HHJ Langan QC,

 

it would be useful for other judges on the same circuit, to rely upon or follow.

[enoughisenough]

yes i have and can i ask how much conveynacing work you were doing last year?

 

or were you acting for a DCA?

 

Ouch! It's getting very testy out there this morning. Think I'll go and make a nice cuppa:D

[SteEqWar]

Hello SteEqWar

 

Firstly may I congratulate you on your win. You have shown a clear determination to see this through and get the judgment that is fair and correct in all the circumstances of your case.

 

On precedent I am afraid you are wrong and I'm sorry that it has resulted in some exchanges in posts which are not in the spirit of this site.

 

The doctrine of precedence is governed by the doctrine of stare decisis et non quieta movere - meaning that in order to create consistency and certainty in case law courts should stand by their own previous decisions. This even applied to the Law lords themselves until the Practice Direction of 1966 which allowed the Lords to depart from their own previous decisions "where it appears right to do so".

 

In Summary:

 

1. Any decision of the House of Lords is binding on all inferior courts.

2. Any decision of the Court of Appeal is binding on all inferior courts but not on the superior court (In this case the HOL)

3. Any decision of the High Court is binding on all inferior courts (but not on the CoA or the HOL)

4. Any county court decision is merely persuasive rather than binding precedent. County court decisions do not bind other or even the same county court.

 

Hope that clarifies.

 

PS This site and its users are not in as much trouble as you suggest. The reason? We take the care to get things right.

 

Would you like to test this in a court? If you do I would sureley like to have the person defaming me . Contact details He can private message me with his/her details if he would like to put it to the test.

 

He attacked my qualifacations and my job.

Fact One I am qualified.

Fact Two it was not in the UK.

 

Fact Three. The Judge stated that the breach of contract that BOS did was binding on other courts. "Wait for the Judgement" I am assuming that his referenced other "District Judges" in relation to this and does culminate in a type of precidence.

 

Fact Four I am learning a lot of UK law.

 

I hope that you're prepared to be his witness.

 

As I said, The best thing to do is wait to see the "Judgement" For all I know the judge could be wrong but I am only stating his words.

 

As you say you take care to get things right. I would have reserved judgement on anyone quoting something similar until seeing the judgement. I think care is out of the equasion here and I can only view this site as web review lawyers. In essence people without qualifaction and who were not party to the case in question.

 

Basing information without the full curcumstances certainly puts you and others at a disadvantage.

 

Again the Judges words "that the breach of contract that Bank of Scotland did in this case did binding on other courts. I see this comment as a type of presidence. Dont you?

 

If I am wrong I would surely apologise. But I do not see as I am

[B3rty]

Baggio..calm down a bit...I think we al know who Bennion is...I have actually corresponded with him on certain points as some of my threads will show...

 

I think its useful to have an open mind and try to understand both point of view in a legal argument then look at the law/case law to see which is the strongest