Need advice with credit card debts please

[JD2009]

Hi JD

 

I too, like many others on here am in a similar position and you can spend hours reading all the threads and find such helpful and useful information but you still worry what do do for the best, don't you?

 

I have written for 5 CCA's and had 3 responses, 1 appears to be enforcible and the other not and 1 stating they need more information to trace the account. Have yet to receive any reply from 2 with MBNA but that seems to be par for the course with them.

 

However, I was interested to read that your OH has been offered such a huge reduction to settle. I would be very interested to find out how he managed that. Perhaps you could elaborate on this, as I am sure a lot of readers would find this very useful.

 

My MBNA cards are with Virgin and the other was previously Beneficial which then changed to HFC and is now with MBNA.

 

Idainfife gave me a very helpful reply and I will make further steps this week to send the 'Account in dispute' letter.

 

Will follow your thread with interest.

 

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the reply Dotty50.

 

Unfortunately, it was not my OH who had the offer of a 75 percent reduction, but gbean2871's OH, I was just congratulating them on getting MBNA to agree to such a figure.

 

I too have spent an enormous amount of what little free time I have reading threads and have found this wonderful forum extremely helpful. I am really humbled by the friendly, helpfulness of the members who have responded personally to my rather tentative questions. I think we are all searching for reassurance that we are approaching things in the best way possible. My biggest fear is that "upping the ante" by sending the Account In Dispute letter may backfire, but as Abbey (MBNA) are not playing ball at present I suppose I should be thinking more along the lines of "sod them!" and just send the letter anyway. Their apparent lack of any consideration in considering my situation certainly makes me feel that way. So I think the account in dispute letter will be winging it's way to them this week.

 

Thanks again for your reply and good luck in your own situation.

[Dotty50]

Hi JD

 

Yes sorry, got my threads in a twist!

 

This is what comes of reading so many!

 

Have now posted of GBeans thread but thanks for you quick response.

 

Dotty

[JD2009]

Hi JD

 

Yes sorry, got my threads in a twist!

 

This is what comes of reading so many!

 

Have now posted of GBeans thread but thanks for you quick response.

 

Dotty

 

 

No problem Dotty. I know what you mean about "reading so many" - suppose it's good to know we're not the only ones with similar problems though.

 

You're very welcome to post in my thread(s) whenever you like. I've had a quick read of yours and will be following with interest.

 

All the very best.

 

JD

[JD2009]

I am presently trying to construct a suitable "Account In Dispute" letter as Abbey did not respond until over two months after my initial request and, despite referring to an "enclosed Credit Card Agreement (original and current)", only provided a copy of MBNA's current terms and a copy of my last statement. They further stated that they had asked "Abbey" to look for the original CCA and would provide a copy if found.

 

I have already started making greatly reduced payments, which they have declined. It is my current intention to keep paying these reduced payments as a gesture of goodwill and as such was intending sending the following letter to them, but before doing so would welcome any opinions as to its suitability:

 

 

"Dear Sir,

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter dated 18 May 2009, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply you have provided does not fulfill your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter by Royal Mail Special delivery on 2nd March 2009 and signed for at your offices on 3rd March 2009.

 

The items you provided in your reply were: 1) a copy of MBNA current Terms and Conditions and 2) a copy of the latest statement, not "a copy of the credit agreement (original and current)" to which your letter refers. What you have sent clearly does not constitute a true copy of any credit agreement that may or may not have been signed by me on the opening of this account. It neither confirms that I am liable for any alleged debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act terms you had until 17 March 2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. Your letter in response was dated 18 May 2009 and did not contain any credit agreement whatsoever. You are therefore now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

To sum up, I have no obligation to make any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

 

Yours faithfully"

 

 

Any comments, better wording or suggested amendments would be very much appreciated.

 

 

Many thanks in advance.

Edited May 28, 2009 by JD2009

[JD2009]

Well, after paying one month at the vastly reduced amount I offered (but they refused), I have since received a letter demanding I pay the arrears and then received my next statement, again demanding effectively two month's payments immediately. Interest still accruing, plus further £12 charge for underpayment.

 

This followed their inadequate response two months after my letter requesting a copy of the CCA agreement. (Their response only included MBNA's current copy CCA Agreement/Terms and Conditions, not a copy of the original Abbey agreement they are supposed to be looking for).

 

I have in the last few days sent the letter to them requesting copy of original CCA under CPR rules as opposed to CCA to give them something else to chew on.

 

My Account in Dispute letter has now been sent, but will probably not be received by them until tomorrow.

 

Phone call yesterday afternoon from "Abbey" whilst I was out at work. Then nothing.

 

Further phone call this evening (from, I'm guessing, an Indian call centre? The man said he was ringing from Global Vantage? on behalf of Abbey and had a very strong accent that made him difficult to understand in any event!) and asked me to confirm certain identity questions - I refused saying I will only respond to written correspondence and not phone calls. He said I must as he had something important to discuss - again I refused and suggested that Abbey should start replying to my most recent letters to them and not to phone again as I would not discuss financial matters over the phone and ended the call. Thought they may call again, but so far nothing.

 

Another payment due shortly - I will be paying the amount I have offered even though this will mean the balance again increasing due to their ignoring my request to freeze interest and charges.

 

I know the Account In Dispute letter says that until they can provide a valid CCA agreement I am not obliged to pay a penny, but feel it best to show my goodwill. Or is that a mistake?

 

Thinking my next step is to SAR them to see if they respond. Any opinions on that course of action or other suggestions would be welcome.

[JD2009]

Received another letter yesterday from Abbey repeating that they cannot agree a reduced payment plan or freeze interest as (in their view) I have made "recent non-essential purchases". This is despite not using the card for at least three months and any card usage was whilst I was within limit and making minimum payments and, if any usage was in their opinion non-essential it would have been negligible.

 

Have today received a letter from "Global Vantedge" (based in India!) quoting an Aegis (DCA?) reference number asking that I contact Global Vantedge immediately by phone or make immediate payment of all arrears directly to Abbey. The only address (other than one for payments to Abbey in Widnes) is an Indian address, but the letter says not to send correspondence or payments to the Indian address.

 

Do I just ignore this letter and await Abbey (MBNA?) response to my Account In Dispute letter?

 

I have no intention of phoning them and cannot send them a DCA letter advising them to refer back to Abbey as the Account is in dispute as there is no UK address quoted.

 

Any advice please?

Edited June 6, 2009 by JD2009

[JD2009]

Have been re-reading what Abbey sent in response to my request for a copy of the CCA agreement and would appreciate some clarification please.

 

What they have sent (two months after my original request) is a copy of MBNA's current Credit Card Agreement including current T&Cs saying that this fulfills there obligations under CCA Section 77/78.

 

My account is an old Abbey credit card and as such I believe(d) that what they must provide is a copy of the original Abbey CCA (although I am aware that they can omit the signature). Now, having read some other recent threads (e.g. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/196424-cca-agreement-time-up.html#post2215014), I note that the response I received is common and, more worryingly, that what they have provided may well fulfill their obligations.

 

Can anyone clarify? (I have since sent the Account In Dispute letter, believing that they had not fulfilled their obligations, but am now wondering).

 

(Common sense would suggest that a copy of MBNA's current agreement cannot possibly represent a "true copy" of what would have been an Abbey agreement, but common sense doesn't always apply in law I suppose).

Edited June 8, 2009 by JD2009

[cosalt]

Hi

 

They must send you a document that is exactly the same as the one you signed, just not the exact one you signed. Their current agreement will not suffice.

 

Maybe a subject access request is the next step ?

 

Cosalt

[JD2009]

Hi

 

They must send you a document that is exactly the same as the one you signed, just not the exact one you signed. Their current agreement will not suffice.

 

Maybe a subject access request is the next step ?

 

Cosalt

 

Thanks a million Cosalt that's exactly what I thought.

 

I don't know if you had chance to see my edit which included a link to a thread regarding a Lloyd's reply, which is what made me wonder.

 

I am definitely thinking of sending them a SAR request as my next step, it's just a case of finding time to visit the Post Office for a Postal Order and to send Special Delivery as my current job doesn't give me any opportunity during weekdays to visit the Post Office and this Saturday morning is also out due to a prior engagement. Looks like it will have to be a week on Saturday.

 

Thank you again for your valued input - much appreciated!

[JD2009]

Looks like Abbey are ignoring my Account In Dispute letter and request under CPR Protocols (now there's a surprise!) as I have now received a letter headed "Notice of Sums In Arrears".

 

The letter basically says that they are required to send the same under the Consumer Credit Act when the last two minimum payments have not been paid. (I have made reduced payments, although Abbey have not agreed to my proposal).

 

The letter goes on to say that failure to pay the arrears and future contractual payments could result in further default sums being applied and furthermore that they may consider recovery action including registration of a default with the CRAs and sale of the debt to a thrid party.

 

I take it that this letter is pretty standard and is not an formal Default Letter?

 

I am thinking that I should write back sending them a further copy of my earlier Account In Dispute letter and point out that until they provide a compliant copy of the original Credit Agreement they are not allowed to take any action whatsoever.

 

Can anyone with greater experience suggest suitable wording for such a letter, and/or is there a better way to deal with this latest correspondence (filing it and forgetting it comes to mind, however, if or when this comes to court action, I suppose it will be best to show that I replied accordingly to their correspondence, if only to show that it is they who did not comply with my legal requests for a copy of my agreement).

 

Any guidance would be very much appreciated.

[blueda]

I would send them a copy of the CCA request as a reminder, send it 1st class recorded, and report them to the office of fair trading.

[JD2009]

I would send them a copy of the CCA request as a reminder, send it 1st class recorded, and report them to the office of fair trading.

 

Thanks Blueda, much appreciated.

 

Is there a template letter or suggested wording for complaints to the OFT as I cannot find one, but may be just looking in the wrong place?

[blueda]

Im not sure if there is a template letter to send to the OFT, i would phone them to start with and tell them what is going on with Abbey, then take it from there.

[JD2009]

Im not sure if there is a template letter to send to the OFT, i would phone them to start with and tell them what is going on with Abbey, then take it from there.

 

Thanks again Blueda

[JD2009]

Wow, I cannot believe almost 3 years have elapsed! Shame it wasn't 6!

 

Alas, this matter has reared its ugly head again after almost 2 years of complete silence and any advice would be appreciated.

 

Brief background:

 

Early 2009 I wrote to MBNA explaining financial hardship and asking them to accept reduced payments/freeze interest on Abbey Credit Card - refused despite having account for around 15 years and never late or missed payments.

 

MBNA continued to demand full payments and charged full interest resulting in account exceeding limit enabling them to charge a further £12 each month as well as £12 for less than minimum payments being made.

 

Having discovered CAG, I sent a s78 CCA request - with no response received.

 

An Account in Dispute letter was subsequently sent some time later and eventually, weeks later, I received a copy of a then 'current' MBNA agreement with my name and address details typed in and copy terms and conditions with a covering letter basically saying "here are the original and current agreements and T & Cs".

 

I wrote back stating that there were no copies of any original agreement and T&Cs enclosed and advising that current MBNA agreement and T&Cs are not sufficient. (The account was an historic Abbey National card not MBNA) and I advised that the account was therefore in legal dispute.

 

MBNA wrote back saying they had provided all they were obliged to provide under s78 and denied the account was in dispute and continued to demand full payment of arrears etc.

 

I continued with my nominal payments, although I did advise them in my "account in dispute letter" that I was no longer obliged to pay.

 

This situation continued with the balance ever increasing due to interest and charges, until I received a Default Notice from MBNA in late 2009.

 

Shortly thereafter, Experto Credite wrote saying they were acting for Varde who had been assigned the debt by MBNA. I never received anything from MBNA at all advising of the assignment.

 

I stopped all payment to MBNA and did not contact or pay anything to Experto, who subsequently sent several letters, often with months between them, until these mysteriously stopped in late 2010 and I have heard nothing since ...... until now.

 

I have in the last couple of weeks received letters from Buchanan Clark & Wells stating that they are acting for Aktiv Kapital who have acquired the MBNA debt from Varde/Experto and demanding full payment or they will "recommend AK proceed to litigation, although AK would of course prefer an amicable settlement".

 

I have so far ignored the letters, but having read up on a couple of AK related threads, it seems that AK are becoming more aggressive in issuing claims.

 

I would appreciate some thoughts/guidance on whether to respond to BCW stating that the account has been in dispute with MBNA since 2009 due to MBNA's failure to comply adequately with a S78 CCA request and failure to provide a copy of an enforceable CCA agreement and suggest they inform AK accordingly, or should I continue to ignore?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited April 23, 2012 by JD2009
correction

[ltc1607]

Sub

[JD2009]

Hi again,

 

Further letter received - "Final Notice" from BCW - usual threats of "will recommend AK proceed to litigation if no response" etc. Seems identical chain of letters to other threads I have read where people are being chased by this bunch. To date have ignored all correspondence as MBNA never provided an enforceable CCA three years ago, only a completely irrelevant copy of an MBNA agreement and terms.

 

No comments/advice were received in response to my last post #40. So any thoughts/advice would be really appreciated. Continue to ignore? or should I reply with regard to no CCA?

 

Should this thread be moved to Debt Collection Sub-Forum?

 

Site team? Anyone?

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to Debt Collection

[blueda]

Hi jd2009 probably best to send BCW account in dispute letter, here is the link to the CAG letters templates page

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?20758-creditorsandDCAs-letterTemplates&budgetplanner

[JD2009]

Thanks andyorch .... and blueda.

 

I'm probably due another missive in the next day or two from BCW going by others' experiences, which would almost certainly cross with any letter I might send.

 

Will therefore probably wait for that before deciding whether to send a letter telling them this has been in dispute since 2009. Don't really want to pull BCW's chain as they are only a DCA, but suspect AK have bought as a job lot without paperwork or being aware of any prior dispute.

 

I do wonder whether there is any pattern to which debts AK chase directly and which they ship out to the likes of BCW to chase for them?

Edited May 16, 2012 by JD2009
correction

[JD2009]

As expected I have received the latest 'threat-o-gram' from BCW a couple of days ago. That's 4 so far:- 1st) Phishing letter, 2nd) Formal Demand, 3rd) Final Notice). All ignored.

 

This latest headed 'Notice of Impending Further Action' saying that they will have no option if I don't contact them, but to 'recommend' to their client AK to take further action which 'may include', 'could result in' CCJ etc.etc. ... oh and this time included a direct debit mandate!

 

Well their last 'Final Notice' letter basically said the same, but with less red ink and no direct debit mandate that time.

 

I am aware that BCW have no powers themselves, hence my reluctance so far to engage with them unnecessarily and encourage them.

 

So, should I send them the account has been in dispute with MBNA since 2009 letter (despite MBNA's denial in 2009 of a valid dispute) or continue to ignore and risk seeing what comes next?

 

I know it's my call, but would really appreciate the thoughts of those with more experience of BCW or, more pertinently, AK's tactics.

[JD2009]

As expected I have received the latest 'threat-o-gram' from BCW a couple of days ago. That's 4 so far:- 1st) Phishing letter, 2nd) Formal Demand, 3rd) Final Notice). All ignored.

 

This latest headed 'Notice of Impending Further Action' saying that they will have no option if I don't contact them, but to 'recommend' to their client AK to take further action which 'may include', 'could result in' CCJ etc.etc. ... oh and this time included a direct debit mandate!

 

Well their last 'Final Notice' letter basically said the same, but with less red ink and no direct debit mandate that time.

 

I am aware that BCW have no powers themselves, hence my reluctance so far to engage with them unnecessarily and encourage them.

 

So, should I send them the account has been in dispute with MBNA since 2009 letter (despite MBNA's denial in 2009 of a valid dispute) or continue to ignore and risk seeing what comes next?

 

I know it's my call, but would really appreciate the thoughts of those with more experience of BCW or, more pertinently, AK's tactics.

 

Anyone?