JBW Employee-took payment but failed to record it.

[Impey]

A friend of mine has been in tears over the actions of JBW. She incurred a local authority parking fine (or several) and did nothing about it. Eventually JBW got involved and called on her adding the usual fees and levies. She ended up paying the bailiff £450 in cash.Team edit-For clarification there remains no evidence that the management of JBW were aware of this,nor did they sanction or have knowledge of it at this time.

 

 

 

So far so straightforwrd. Except about two months later another JBW bailiff turned up demanding over £500, clamping her car in the process. She pointed out she had paid it (same reference no. and everything) but couldn't find the receipt at that time. The bailiff returned to the office then returned to her home saying that, whilst they had a record of the earlier bailiff calling in to say he had visited her to collect the debt, he had now left the employ of JBW and they had no record of him having paid the money in. The second bailiff decided to give her the benefit of the doubt, removed the clamp and issued a further notice giving her 7 days to come up with a receipt.

 

Team edit-again there is no evidence that JBW had knowledge of the alleged earlier payments being made,not sanctioned the alleged actions.

 

 

 

Thankfully - and after a whole wasted day turning her house upside-down - she managed to locate the receipt and a scanned copy is on its way to JBW with an appropriate letter of complaint. (She isn't letting the original out of her sight!)

 

It seems clear that the first bailiff hs simply pocketed the money from his call and not paid it in. My view is that she shouldn't be held responsible for theft on the part of JBW's employee and that the burden of proof ought to lie with JBW to show that she didn't pay the money rather than the other way round. (Though the point is academic since she found the receipt).

 

Also the actions of JBW in all this wasted a whole day, her car was clamped for several hours and she tells me that she spent most of the day crying her eyes out and was even physiclly sick with worry at one point.

 

I've suggested she might have a case to seek some sort of compensation since their failures clearly caused her considerble distress - or am I just being wildly optimistic?

Edited May 5, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[ashmk]

Whilst I have pity for what has happened im afriad in my opinion she should have kept the reciept safe afterall its your proof you have paid.

 

Its not the fault of the bailiff company it wasnt kept safe and a whole day was wasted searching for it.

[k1mmie]

Download a form4 complaint form, and make an official complaint against the original bailiff. Write to JBW ask them to supply the name of the original bailiff, and then you can make a complaint against this person. If you do not have his name and they cant/wont give it to you. Then you are asked to name the company on the form anyway, so just state that the company have refused to release the name of the attending bailiff and they will write to them asking them to provide this information. ALso, ask them for a copy of their screen shots on you. Send a SAR request, and they will have to provide you with any information they hold on you. I would not put it past them to try to obtain the money from you twice!

[Impey]

Its not the fault of the bailiff company it wasnt kept safe and a whole day was wasted searching for it.

 

Well yes and no - if the bailiff company had kept their own proper records and checked they would surely have noticed that whilst the original bailiff had phoned in and said he'd collected the money the cash hadn't been paid in. She'd paid the money and wasted a day not because of where she kept the receipt but because the bailiff company made a second and unwarranted effort to collect money that was not due.

 

And the problem wasn't that the receipt wasn't safe - it was too safe! I've spent hours waiting on her doorstep over the years while she looks for stuff she put "in a safe place" before we go out!

[Impey]

Download a form4 complaint form, and make an official complaint against the original bailiff. Write to JBW ask them to supply the name of the original bailiff, and then you can make a complaint against this person. If you do not have his name and they cant/wont give it to you. Then you are asked to name the company on the form anyway, so just state that the company have refused to release the name of the attending bailiff and they will write to them asking them to provide this information. ALso, ask them for a copy of their screen shots on you. Send a SAR request, and they will have to provide you with any information they hold on you. I would not put it past them to try to obtain the money from you twice!

 

Thanks for that K1mmie. I suspect she will just want to forget about the whole thing - it's just me that hates seeing people turned over!

[WelshMam2009]

Unfortunately Impey, your friend has learned the hard way about the importance of keeping paperwork safe when you're dealing with such pond life.

 

Nonetheless, a complaint should be filed, if only to prevent such occurrences being repeated on others.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I think I'd send a SAR and make a complaint too. I'd also ask JBW for the crime number they obtained when they reported the theft...

[tomtubby]

IMPEY.

 

This is very serious indeed. The bailiff does not telephone through to the company to record a visit. What happens is that all bailiffs have a "magic pen". This is a devise that transmits data vis Bluetooth technology and this is sent from their laptops and instantly updates the Screen Shot.

 

It is therefore VITAL that you request a copy of the Screen Shot of the account.

 

In addition, the local authority MUST be told of this.

 

On the receipt, were you provided with the name of the first bailiff?. DO NOT POST IT.

Edited May 4, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

Sorry guys but in the absence of some real proof of these allegations,this thread will have to be moderated.

This is in keeping within the general policy and posting guidelines,irrespective of who the individuals or organisation is.

Thanks for your understanding.

TT the suggestion at the end of your post is not really a good idea and so edit there as well.

[Impey]

Sorry guys but in the absence of some real proof of these allegations,this thread will have to be moderated.

This is in keeping within the general policy and posting guidelines,irrespective of who the individuals or organisation is.

Thanks for your understanding.

TT the suggestion at the end of your post is not really a good idea and so edit there as well.

 

Just to clarify a few points:

 

The suggestion that the bailiff collected the money but failed to pay it in came from JBW themselves. As far as C was concerned it might have just been some admin mess-up. C called them to sort things out and was told that they had a record of her having given money to the bailiff but they could not trace it having been received by JBW. It is also significant that the second bailiff mentioned that the first was "no longer with the company" and suggested there had been other problems with his work.

 

My whole problem with this is not whether or not JBW's employee misappropriated funds paid to him (if he did that's their problem) but the fact that JBW had sufficient information to suggest payment had been made but still clamped the car and would still have been willing to try to enforce the debt even though it had been paid.

 

Funny I don't get this annoyed when people try to stitch me up but when someone tries to mess about with my chums it's a different mtter!

[tomtubby]

It is also sadly the case that many bailiff companies have sacked employees for withholding money and not passing it to the company. Remember that this is an industry where many of the transactions are by cash!!

 

It is possible that this was just a simple mistake. That is why it is so important to request a "true copy of the original" screen shot of the account. This will hopefully clear the matter up for you.

[MARTIN3030]

Impey-the purpose of the additions and edits,was to make clear that these are your contentions,and in the absence of proof,and evidence at this stage,cannot therefore be validated.

I cannot stress enough the need to exercise caution and restraint,the implications for the site should any of this information be factually incorrect,has to be paramount.

Additionally,due to the nature of the allegations,it may be best to await the investigations from all parties,since there is little point nor any benefits from making assumptions or passing judgement,until that investigation has been completed-lets await that to take its course...then obviously there may need to be further questions to be asked and answered.

[Impey]

Thanks for all the advice - I thought you might like to know how this has ended up.

 

C faxed a copy of the receipt to JBW who - and fair play to them - have now apologised unreservedly. She has been credited with the original amount she paid over and they will be writing to her with full details of her account and full written confirmation that all is now ok.

 

JBW have told C that the original bailiff has been arrested and I don't want to go into too much detail but the advice C wants to give everyone is that if you pay a bailiff cash and he provides a hand-written receipt, make sure that your copy and the copy he takes with him match. Above all, if he has some thick paper or card between the two copies alarm bells ought to start ringing!

 

Oh and I scored brownie points for being the supportive male as well!

[MARTIN3030]

Well done.

Thanks for the update.

[letsmakeamark]

This is a pr excercise. I think. This company and apologise ?

[MARTIN3030]

Well lets be honest-the expectation and need for an apology could hardly have been greater.

[tomtubby]

IMPEY...

 

This sounds very interesting and I am pleased to see that this company are dealing with the matter.

 

HOWEVER..

 

Th bailiff company are acting as AGENTS for the relevant local authority. For this reason it is VITAL that you ensure that you advise them of what has happened. Do NOT assume that the bailiff company will inform their clients.

 

This is yet another example of why I cannot understand way bailiffs representing councils in England & Wales are still allowed to be accepting significant cash payments using a simple receipt book and handwritten receipt !!!

[Impey]

C has written a letter to JBW setting out precisely what happened and requesting full details of what her account shows. I'm supposed to be going over there this evening to have a look before she sends it on and I'll make sure whichever local authority iissued the original ticket is copied in on everything just so she doesn't get clobbered again.

 

I guess that a "rogue employee" could happen to anyone!

[tomtubby]

C has written a letter to JBW setting out precisely what happened and requesting full details of what her account shows. I'm supposed to be going over there this evening to have a look before she sends it on and I'll make sure whichever local authority iissued the original ticket is copied in on everything just so she doesn't get clobbered again.

 

I guess that a "rogue employee" could happen to anyone!

 

Believe it or not this actually not that uncommon !!

[MARTIN3030]

"This is yet another example of why I cannot understand way bailiffs representing councils in England & Wales are still allowed to be accepting significant cash payments using a simple receipt book and handwritten receipt !!!"

 

 

This is a good point,and given todays technology and payment structures its very questionable.

One way around it would be the use of portable card readers-which would do the transaction on the spot-although no doubt there would then be commission charges-and theres those people who dont have cards.

My guess is that Baliffs are happy to continue to carry on,as they are,and maintain that situations such as the one in this thread do not occur very often.

[JonCris]

Martin these situations occur a great deal more than you think the problem for the debtor is proving it happened - It's often the case that not only the whole of the payment has gone missing but in some cases part of the payment goes missing which is even harder to prove - after all who's going to believe a feckless debtor as apposed to an upstanding bailiff

 

Remember what Mr McKinley stated in the House to para phrase "the debt collection industry is riddled with crooks & illegal practices & their regulator is a joke"`Whilst not precise I think it displays the essence of his remarks

[MARTIN3030]

I am not saying it is not happening often Jon -I am saying that the Baliffs and debt collection industry will deny it is.

 

The recent case of Philips being caught using counterfeit software is just one example how they think the laws dont apply to them.

[JonCris]

Great Martin got a link?

[MARTIN3030]

Give me a mo

[MARTIN3030]

Here we go

 

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