BOS/Halifax

[diddydicky]

OK Joemay,

 

As this has been terminated, DD is correct, you should not continue with payments. It will look like the agreement is continuing in your eyes.

 

DD,

 

Is it wise to state in writing to Halifax that the payments were being made, however in light of their termination of the agreement, Joemay will obviously have to stop these as Halifax have given them no account to pay against.

 

id just cancel the direct debit and if challenged later show the court a copy of the earlier letter i wrote asking for the dd to be stopped and which apperas not to have been acted upon

 

in any further correspondence i would refer to their unlawful termination of the agreement and let them figure out why

 

if they write back and ask why you think it is terminated unlawfully or otherwise then i would respond by saying that i am not a lawyer but happy to give them legal advice at half the lawyer rate and on the understanding that their might be a conflict of interests

[joemay]

Yes, I was just reading back through the thread.

 

There is no termination notice that I can see, but a request for full outstanding amount from B,O&S.

 

Is that correct Joemay, or have I missed the termination notice.

 

Hi Vint, yes that's correct - no termination notice only request for full amount plus letter above from Halifax confirming agreement has ended.

[vint1954]

Hi Vint, yes that's correct - no termination notice only request for full amount plus letter above from Halifax confirming agreement has ended.

As DD & Lexis point out, if you do continue to pay, it looks as if you are acknowledging that the agreement still exists.

 

Perhaps we can look again tomorrow. Less G&T then.

[joemay]

As DD & Lexis point out, if you do continue to pay, it looks as if you are acknowledging that the agreement still exists.

 

Perhaps we can look again tomorrow. Less G&T then.

 

Thanks vint, yes propably a good idea opened a bottle of bud, am slightly confused before drinking so no doubt will be even more so after finishing it.

 

DD, lexis, vint and any other knowledgeable caggers, I really appeciate your import.

 

Have a good night8)

[diddydicky]

burrrrrrrp am doing already, hic!

[joemay]

burrrrrrrp am doing already, hic!

:lol:

[joemay]

I have to agree with you there!

 

The discussion thread is extremely 'circular' and puts doubts in the mind Fortunately, joemay and I have both had letters stating agreement terminated on the Halifax CC accounts which makes things a lot easier but my loan account is another matter which is why I'm holding back on that one...

 

Sorry for Hijacking Joemay.

 

Spam.

 

Apology not accepted, because not needed. Appreciate all your help on this:D

[joemay]

Hi all,

 

OK have just read over this thread and am a little confused/unsure as to what to do now.

 

Halifax have confirmed that the agreement has ended. Both Halifax & Bl**dy Orrible & Snotty have requested payment in full.

There is a defective DN.

Application form with no prescribed terms & only supplied current T&Cs.

 

My understanding is that they have terminated this agreement unlawfully, so therefore are only entitled to claim the areas which was shown on the DN. If i'm wrong then please let me know. (I really am rather thick)

 

Have rec'd letter from bl**dy orrible & snotty requesting a call to them, (obviously not going to do that got better things to spend the premium charge money on) but do need to respond to them or halifax to say.... what! I know what I mustn't say is that they've issued a defective DN;-)

 

DD kindly pointed out that as the agreement has been terminated OH needs to stop payments, therefore accepting that the agreement has been terminated, which he will do, but then what?

 

Should we request SAR to see what that shows up?

 

Should we send the excellent letter that DD posted earlier?

 

Or should we send another letter and if so which?

 

Any assistance on this would be of great help, because as you can clearly see I haven't got a clue

 

Thanks:confused:

Edited July 19, 2009 by joemay

[diddydicky]

why not try along these lines (you will have to tinker with it as it is one i have used)

 

Your Ref XXXXXXXXX Unlawfully Terminated Agreement

 

 

I would remind you that prior to your unlawful termination of the above agreement ,which I have accepted you variously:-

 

Were in default of an obligation to respond to a s78 request. between XXXXXX 2009 (the deadline for compliance ) and XXXXXX 2009.

 

Failed in your enclosures dated XXXXX and received XXXXXX 2009 in response to the s78 request to provide a true copy of an original executed agreement, the document you provided did not contain any of the required prescribed terms within it‘s four corners and therefore was not “a true copy of an executed agreement-

 

Ignored correspondence from me pointing out the failings in the documents supplied, and made no attempt to rectify your failure to comply

 

Added unlawful charges and interest to the account at a time when you were in default of the CCA and not permitted to do so between XXXXXXXl 2009 and xxxxxxx 2009.

 

Referred my data to third parties when you were prevented from doing so due to your non compliance and the dispute not being remedied

 

Pursued enforcement action whilst prevented from doing so due to your non compliance. and when the account was clearly in dispute

 

 

You then:-

 

Notwithstanding that you were not allowed to pursue enforcement of the agreement as a result of the foregoing, you then Unlawfully Terminated the agreement and sought the benefits of s87

 

Notwithstanding the foregoing, and even were it the case that you were not prevented from enforcement, the termination of the agreement would still amount to an unlawful termination and repudiation . Such termination having been undertaken without first allowing me the opportunity to remedy the alleged default by way of an effective default notice

 

As a consequence of your unlawful actions , only the amount of genuine arrears due at the time of the unlawful termination are due (not including unlawful charges and interest) and my counterclaim for your repudiation of the contract is likely to exceed this amount.

In the circumstances therefore I suggest that you take the ethical course of action in this matter and write this account off whereupon I will not pursue any claim or counterclaim against you

 

 

Yours sincerely

[diddydicky]

or you could just sit back and wait but you will be pestered by dca's

[spartathisis]

How have you got the info to date? Have you not already sent a SAR?

 

App form with no prescribed terms is enough to put the account into dispute and to tell them so, but halifax wont take any notice so be strong and firm. Not had a look at DD letter will have alook and see. I sent letters to TBI Financial and Robinson Way, TBI not heard anything for 3 months and Robbers have closed the account. Have posted the letters up on another thread, will find it and put link up:)

[spartathisis]

DD, by stating acceptance of an unlawful termination are we not giving another bite of the cherry to them? Re: A Tale of a Dodgy DN - Further Discussion. They havent got a legally enforceable agreement, end of. I think throwing in the DN and termination may muddy the water a little and should be left til/when court looms?

[diddydicky]

DD, by stating acceptance of an unlawful termination are we not giving another bite of the cherry to them? Re: A Tale of a Dodgy DN - Further Discussion. They havent got a legally enforceable agreement, end of. I think throwing in the DN and termination may muddy the water a little and should be left til/when court looms?

 

well i did give the either/or option - this is only MY opinion and is based on my attitude which is to meet these things head on and not pussyfoot around for months on end and with dca's and endless threatograms

 

however as i see it this IS his present situation:-

 

no enforceable cca

defective DN

unlawful termination

 

 

seems to me that the chances of the OC or any assignee going to court on this basis is slim

 

much of the discussion on the thread you refer to centres around cases where a defective default notice has been issued but no formal termination other than court proceedings whereas in this case halifax has confirmed the termination

 

Notwithstanding the foregoing, any doubts as to the DN/TN which may exist now will still exist later so why delay the inevitable

 

 

If he waits for court action he will in the meantime (if court action indeed is ever started) face DCA after DCA all chasing the case and him having to go through the entire story over and over again.( for be under no doubt they will play dumb and go through the whole process over and over)

 

If this gets to court and he has to do the AQ he will have to state if he has tried to resolve the matter outside of the court process and/or if he is willing to,

 

so why not take that step NOW by suggesting they write it off@

 

in order to do this he needs to give them good reason why they should consider doing this - they wont do it just because he asks!!

and they may be oblivious to the fact that they have also cocked up the DN

 

they will either:-

 

not even acknowledge the letter (useful if it did ever go to court)

 

refuse to do so /or make a counter offer of resolution

 

whatever the outcome at least if he is then pestered with dca's he can simply send them a one line letter:-

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I owe no money to you client (or you)

 

No further correspondence will be entered into other than to respond to any court summons

 

Y F

 

this as ever is my unqualified opinion

 

 

OR as you say he can sit back and deal with dca's etc and await any future court process

[lexis200]

Sounds good to me DD

[Spamalot]

Agreeing with DD too. Would've posted last night but was a tad tired.

 

Good luck Joemay....I liked your mexican wave BTW.. where did you get it?

 

Spam.

[joemay]

Hi DD, Thanks excellent letter.

 

At this moment in time, although they have stated that the agreement has ended in a letter, I'm a little concern that they may somehow back track and state this was an error, (employee just hit wrong key for template letter) so would you agree that it might be wise to send of a SAR, which shoud theorectically confirm that the agreement has been cancelled.

 

I know it seeems I'm being hesitant, but this account is my OH's. If it was mine I would I prob would just go straight in all a guns a blazing.

 

All views & comments welcomed & appreciated:D

[joemay]

Agreeing with DD too. Would've posted last night but was a tad tired.

 

Good luck Joemay....I liked your mexican wave BTW.. where did you get it?

 

Spam.

 

what you mean this one

 

Got it from http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs19/f/2007/235/4/0/Rainbow_Mexican_Wave_1_by_alexs2602.gif

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Joemay,

Just catching up

I'd go belt and braces..do the SAR then send DD's brilliant letter once you have concrete evidence.

The SAR should show up a charge for the DN, your customer computer records at both Halifax and BOS and confirm the termination point. (Make sure you send the debt oriented SAR not the bank charges one)

Hang in there, you're doing good

Elsa xx

[joemay]

Hey Elsa, thanks for looking in. Have been looking around here for months trying to educate myself, but once it comes to taking action it's really nerve racking, and everything I think I've learnt seems suddenly to have flown out of my brain

[joemay]

Hi Joemay,

Just catching up

I'd go belt and braces..do the SAR then send DD's brilliant letter once you have concrete evidence.

The SAR should show up a charge for the DN, your customer computer records at both Halifax and BOS and confirm the termination point. (Make sure you send the debt oriented SAR not the bank charges one)

Hang in there, you're doing good

Elsa xx

 

Is it this one? & who do I send to the Data Controller?:

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions and/or recordings of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

11.Termination notices

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

[diddydicky]

Hi DD, Thanks excellent letter.

 

At this moment in time, although they have stated that the agreement has ended in a letter, I'm a little concern that they may somehow back track and state this was an error, (employee just hit wrong key for template letter) so would you agree that it might be wise to send of a SAR, which shoud theorectically confirm that the agreement has been cancelled.

 

I know it seeems I'm being hesitant, but this account is my OH's. If it was mine I would I prob would just go straight in all a guns a blazing.

 

All views & comments welcomed & appreciated:D

 

it doesnt matter if it was done in error, mistyping, deliberate, sloppy,incomptently or whatever

 

there is a general legal principle that a man takes responsibilty for what he "puts his hand to"

 

If he is not sure what he puts his hand to then he ought not to do so

 

once done - its done

 

agreement ended is the same as agreement terminated

 

 

AGAIN if they were to use that argument now - it would be the same argument in 6 days 6 weeks 6 years!!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Joemay,

That's the one

Send to:

Data Subject Access Request Team

Hbos PLC,

10 Carlton Street,

Halifax HX1 2AL

 

PO payable to HBOS plc

 

Elsaxx

[Undercover-Elsa]

Totally agree DD but I'm also losing faith in the ability of the DJ's to follow even simple logic!!

You should don a wig, we might get some fair play then!

[lexis200]

Totally agree DD but I'm also losing faith in the ability of the DJ's to follow even simple logic!!

 

Quite! Which is why I'm attempting to avoid court if I possibly can, it is nothing to do with me being a massive wuss at all...

[Undercover-Elsa]

Us? Wusses? Nahhhh

My strategy, such as it is, is like yours Lexis, argue the error of their ways to the point that they get sick of hearing it, daren't risk it in court and eventually say..ohhhh...just...GO AWAY!!!