BOS/Halifax

[joemay]

Bump

[surprise]

Its a difficult thing to advise as I had Capital One of irresponsible lending, ie they sent my daughter a guaranteed application and when she filled it out it clearly stated she wasn't working. I also had a write off £900 from Lloyds for her, but had them on the grounds again of irresponsible lending and harassment. She also banked with Lloyds at the time and I had asked for reduced payments initially, however, they continued to take the full minimum payment each month causing her to go overdrawn and making charges. I got my MP involved on this one, I think this is another reason why we may have had the write off. She also got a Gesture of Goodwill payment of £350.00.

 

Personally, I would write them a letter advising them of the financial and medical situation together with sending them an income and expenditure form, there is one on the National Debtline that is very good, let them see how much is available for creditors. If you husband is willing for them to obtain a medical report from his GP you could send them his permission to apply for this. If they want it let them pay for it.

 

Give them a parting shot, that as the agreement is uneforceable you feel that the best course of action would be for them to set the account to zero. You could state that no Judge would make us pay any more than what can be comfortably afforded and taking such court action would involve them in further costs.

[joemay]

Thanks for that suprise.

 

Does anyone else have any experience of this kind of situation, or any opionion/comments would be welcomed.

[diddydicky]

Thanks for that suprise.

 

Does anyone else have any experience of this kind of situation, or any opionion/comments would be welcomed.

 

firstly i cannot see the cca properly but am taling it as read that there are no prescibed terms on it and no reference to them being on the back of it

 

this being the case and the fact that it is merely an application form and bearing in mind i am not legally qualified i would write to them in the following manner

 

if after 21 days they have not responded i would then make a without prejudice offer of around 10% of the debt (and will be happy to draft this for you at the time)

 

dick

Your ref XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I refer to the document you have returned to me in response to a s78 request under the CCA and which you kindly confirm is a true copy of a properly executed credit card agreement

 

Of course you are fully aware that this document is nothing of the sort

 

it is a pre contractual application form and in order for it to be considered as a properly executed agreement it would need to contain "within it's four corners" the prescribed terms" which it clearly does not

 

it is not for me to remind you of the relevant parts of the legislation which prevent this from being an enforceable agreement , suffice to say that is is not enforceable at law

 

The overriding objective s of the CPR is to attempt to get parties that may be involved in litigation to resolve matters without recourse to the legal system

 

To this end and for personal health reasons I wish to bring this matter to a speedy conclusion without the need for me to apply to the courts to have this matter ruled upon

 

I therefore request that if you still contend that you have a properly executed and legally enforceable credit agreement then you arrange for me to personally inspect this document within the next 21 days

 

i am prepared to travel a reasonable distance to see this document , or alternatively i will pay the reasonable costs of having this document sent to a local branch of your company or a local solicitors office acting for you for me to see.

 

I will assume, failing a positive response from you within 21 days from the date of this letter that you either do not possess such a document and/or you have no regard for the overriding objectives of the CPR and this letter will be brought to the attention of any court dealing with a costs application in this matter.

 

Y F

[lilly white]

OK AND WELL

 

i do wish i did not used does terms.

 

However what are trying to do is to get the creditor to accept as it stands it will be difficult for them to go to court on what we have seen.

 

so you could put together a letter combined dd. and the other advice and see what comes back

 

why not give it a go post the letter up here if you like and we will have a look

 

lilly

[davey77]

Hi joemay, well had a little look at your thread i would say the chances of a write off (no matter how dire the circumstances) are slim to say the least. Especially with the likes of Halifax and their in-house Blair, Olivier and **** on the case.

 

I tried that and got nowhere with many creditors. Requests for a write off were ignored or responded to with 'we cannot write this off at this time' etc

 

I think it's a good idea that if you did ask for a write off then head it without prejudice so it can't be used against you later but if you feel your agreement is invalid then i would pursue that line rather than waste too much time on asking for mercy from organisations that don't know what that word means.

 

The only thing that is sure fired to get them to considering wiping out a debt is publicity: Major newspapers, Tv or BBC Watchdog intervention and that's hard to get as i have tried myself.

 

I would just concentrate on any unlawful charges aspect and start building a case against them to get an LBA sorted when you are ready to do so. Can't remember if you have gone down the CPR 31.16 route.. that's always worth a try.

 

I would also not bother too much corresponding with BOS. They never reply from my experience. Here are a few examples that you will probably get if you haven't had them already:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/5copy.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/1copy-1.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/6copy.jpg

 

I would send them at some point if you don't get anywhere a final letter along these lines of:

 

" As i have already made my position clear i fail to see the need to reiterate the situation and suggest that you recommended to your 'client' that they commence Legal Action (as stated in your previous correspondence on more than one occasion) as we have reached an impasse and this matter cannot be amicably resolved otherwise.

 

I shall therefore look forward to receiving your client’s Claim through the (name) County Court at the earliest opportunity and any other template communication from you that i feel is not pertinent shall be read and filed for future evidence but not replied to as you may consider this is my final response."

 

Adapted to your needs and after that deal with the organ grinder (Halifax) directly and not their Monkey (BOS).

[diddydicky]

Hi joemay, well had a little look at your thread i would say the chances of a write off (no matter how dire the circumstances) are slim to say the least. Especially with the likes of Halifax and their in-house Blair, Olivier and **** on the case.

 

I tried that and got nowhere with many creditors. Requests for a write off were ignored or responded to with 'we cannot write this off at this time' etc

 

I think it's a good idea that if you did ask for a write off then head it without prejudice so it can't be used against you later but if you feel your agreement is invalid then i would pursue that line rather than waste too much time on asking for mercy from organisations that don't know what that word means.

 

The only thing that is sure fired to get them to considering wiping out a debt is publicity: Major newspapers, Tv or BBC Watchdog intervention and that's hard to get as i have tried myself.

 

I would just concentrate on any unlawful charges aspect and start building a case against them to get an LBA sorted when you are ready to do so. Can't remember if you have gone down the CPR 31.16 route.. that's always worth a try.

 

I would also not bother too much corresponding with BOS. They never reply from my experience. Here are a few examples that you will probably get if you haven't had them already:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/5copy.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/1copy-1.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/6copy.jpg

 

I would send them at some point if you don't get anywhere a final letter along these lines of:

 

" As i have already made my position clear i fail to see the need to reiterate the situation and suggest that you recommended to your 'client' that they commence Legal Action (as stated in your previous correspondence on more than one occasion) as we have reached an impasse and this matter cannot be amicably resolved otherwise.

 

I shall therefore look forward to receiving your client’s Claim through the (name) County Court at the earliest opportunity and any other template communication from you that i feel is not pertinent shall be read and filed for future evidence but not replied to as you may consider this is my final response."

 

Adapted to your needs and after that deal with the organ grinder (Halifax) directly and not their Monkey (BOS).

 

I would also not bother too much corresponding with BOS. They never reply from my experience.

 

all the MORE reason to keep writing to them- keep offering solutions to try and resolve the matter- nothing like a total lack of response to your efforts to comply with the overriding objectives of the CPR to try and resolve matters when it comes to deciding costs!!

[joemay]

Thanks davey77, Thanks for responding. It's good to hear what others have experienced regarding write offs. we are realistic in regards to this £11k+ is a lot of money for them to just write off, my concern is that should they decide to go to court then costs would be high should the DJ decide to side with them.

[lexis200]

I agree with DD. BOS and BlairOS are looking like complete twits now when you see the responses I have had to the letters I have written. They never address the direct questions you ask, and state 'feelings' of the bank being right over legislation proving they are wrong. And that's as you say when they can actually be bothered to respond.

 

Of course you can't go on like that forever, so at some point you will probably want to stop acknowledging their letters in any way, but before you do that I think it's wise to build up a collection of the tripe they send in answer to your reasonable queries.

[lexis200]

Thanks davey77, Thanks for responding. It's good to hear what others have experienced regarding write offs. we are realistic in regards to this £11k+ is a lot of money for them to just write off, my concern is that should they decide to go to court then costs would be high should the DJ decide to side with them.

 

I've just been reading a thread about a 10.5k write off from Halifax due to no CCA - it's a very very very slim chance but it does happen.

[joemay]

Hi DD - yes you have a point there

[joemay]

I've just been reading a thread about a 10.5k write off from Halifax due to no CCA - it's a very very very slim chance but it does happen.

 

lexis200 - Tell me more...

[davey77]

That's ok if you are just starting out and it's good to build a pile of correspondence as evidence but eventually it's a pointless task.

After getting through aprox 11 DCAs per account over 2.5 yrs i have found it's best to go after the OC (original Creditor) unless the account has been sold outright.

 

Fine to send a CCA request to a DCA to put them into check but it's most likely that many of the letters sent to DCAs (particularly in-house ones) are not even read for the most part.

 

The only solution a DCA wants is £££$$$ cash. Nothing else will get them communicating in a professional manner.

 

But then again.. you may get lucky

 

By all means keep writing.. i'm an old hand and 30 odd DCAs later i like to use my printer for nicer jobs like printing photos of next door's cat.

[davey77]

lexis200 - Tell me more...

 

Tell me more too

[davey77]

Looks like this one?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/208820-section-78-write-off.html

[vint1954]

I agree with DD. BOS and BlairOS are looking like complete twits now when you see the responses I have had to the letters I have written. They never address the direct questions you ask, and state 'feelings' of the bank being right over legislation proving they are wrong. And that's as you say when they can actually be bothered to respond.

 

Of course you can't go on like that forever, so at some point you will probably want to stop acknowledging their letters in any way, but before you do that I think it's wise to build up a collection of the tripe they send in answer to your reasonable queries.

I agree Lexis, I always follow up their letters, no matter what they say. Keeps the paper trail in place.

[davey77]

Thanks davey77, Thanks for responding. It's good to hear what others have experienced regarding write offs. we are realistic in regards to this £11k+ is a lot of money for them to just write off, my concern is that should they decide to go to court then costs would be high should the DJ decide to side with them.

 

Didn't i read at the beginning your DN could be invalid? That should be a defence to any Court action although if your 'agreement' is a 2002 application form with no prescribed terms the likelihood of BOS taking this to a Court room is VERY slim if not non-existent.

[joemay]

Looks like this one?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/208820-section-78-write-off.html

 

 

Don't think so that was only £1k

 

If you know the thread lexis,please do tell.8)

[lexis200]

It's just a single post in one of the 300 or so threads I'm subscribed to, so I can't think of where abouts it is off the top of my head - sorry:oops:

 

If I come across it again when I'm reading back though I will post it up here straight away!

[lexis200]

Just had a brainwave and remembered where it was - from member alisindebt

 

Re: MBNA-Anyone Actually Succeeded With CCA Route?

I just received a letter from Lowell's Debt collectors, who purchased a credit card debt of mine from MBNA, previously Abbey National, a few years ago. The debt was just over 10 thousand pounds.

 

I sent off a payment in May 2009 to get a copy of the CCA. They said it was taking a long time to search for it in a recent letter.

 

Yesterday, I was informed that Abbey did not keep records going back that far and the debt has been written off. Simple as that.

 

For completeness, I also have two other CCAs with Egg and they are both in dispute because they are unenforceable, as apparently were many loan agreements from Egg dating back to that time-mine were 2002 and 2003. these debts cannot be legally collected and cannot be challenged in the County court (I live abroad anyway!).

 

Hope this encourages you.

[joemay]

Thanks Lexis - there could be hope for us all yet;)

[Spamalot]

Hiya Joemay,

Just subbing to your thread too... also thought I'd let you know that my debt with Halifax CC is around 12k and a few months back BOS offered a settlement of around 6k.

 

To be honest it was before I found CAG, and If I could have laid my hands on the cash there and then I'd have paid them to make it go away...but lets face it how many of us can put our hands in our pockets and come up with 6 grand overnight!

 

It could be cause they know the agreements are rubbish and just want to get something back on them....or it could be a tax write off who knows. Whatever happens, just don't give in easily and make sure they fight for what they get.

 

Spam.

[lexis200]

Hiya Joemay,

Just subbing to your thread too... also thought I'd let you know that my debt with Halifax CC is around 12k and a few months back BOS offered a settlement of around 6k.

 

To be honest it was before I found CAG, and If I could have laid my hands on the cash there and then I'd have paid them to make it go away...but lets face it how many of us can put our hands in our pockets and come up with 6 grand overnight!

 

It could be cause they know the agreements are rubbish and just want to get something back on them....or it could be a tax write off who knows. Whatever happens, just don't give in easily and make sure they fight for what they get.

 

Spam.

 

That would be ridiculous, your pockets would be bulging. Personally I keep my spare thousands of pounds in my change jar;)

[joemay]

Hiya Joemay,

Just subbing to your thread too... also thought I'd let you know that my debt with Halifax CC is around 12k and a few months back BOS offered a settlement of around 6k.

 

To be honest it was before I found CAG, and If I could have laid my hands on the cash there and then I'd have paid them to make it go away...but lets face it how many of us can put our hands in our pockets and come up with 6 grand overnight!

 

It could be cause they know the agreements are rubbish and just want to get something back on them....or it could be a tax write off who knows. Whatever happens, just don't give in easily and make sure they fight for what they get.

 

Spam.

 

They'll be luck if they get 6 quid:p

[joemay]

Hi guys, Thanks DD for the letter, I think i'll hang onto that one for now but in the meantime I'm sending the following, to bland, orrible & snotty. Do I need to send this recorded or normal post?

Re: My request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

This account is in Dispute.

 

On **** 2009 I wrote to Halifax requesting that they supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account. In response to this request I was supplied a mere application form which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states:

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I refer to page 5 of the guidance which states;

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment.

 

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40

 

Since the agreement is unenforceable and the default notice is non compliant, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for your client to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

 

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days

 

 

 

I'll wait and see what template response I get and let you know.