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    • Hi slick!    On 22 July they said they would refund me £74.07 Theres no DD in place as my membership was a once off payment in November last year.  Hi Dx,    I paid through PayPal last year as a one off payment. 
    • I'm trying to understand it all but I certainly tend to agree with my colleague @dx100uk that it looks as if you may have been taken for a ride. You found an advertisement for a bag on an online sales site. Instead of going through the established procedure of that site, which presumably allows them to recover a commission from the seller you started dealing directly with the seller who is an unknown person to you and of course that allowed the seller to avoid paying the commission. At whose suggestion was it that you went off-site? You then pay by PayPal but instead of logging it with PayPal as a payment for a purchased item, you tell PayPal that it was actually simply a gift or transaction between friends and family. This also allowed the seller to avoid paying a PayPal fee on the money. At whose suggestion was it that you paid in this way?       I don't say that you definitely have been scammed, but it doesn't look very good. This is how it might have happened: after you agreed to take the transaction off-site, so you lost the protection of the established system – and the seller avoided the commission and also avoided the sales site knowing that they had sold their item, you then agreed to pay the seller some money – but not for a purchase – simply as a gift. This has two consequences. Firstly, the seller avoids a PayPal fee and secondly, because PayPal has been misled as to the purpose of the payment, you lose the protection of PayPal if it turns out that you've been scammed or there is some other problem with the transaction. The seller then apparently sent you the parcel and they sent you pictures of a package with your address on it. Separately they sent you a Hermes tracking number – but there is no evidence that the package was actually posted to your address. The seller might simply have taken a picture with your address and sent that to you by way of reassurance – and then changed the label and posted the parcel to themselves but sent you a tracking number which is inaccessible to you and in respect of which you will be prevented from getting any information. All you've seen is a parcel with your address on it. All you've been given is a tracking number which satisfied you for a while until the parcel did not arrive and then when you started to make enquiries, you found that you were unable to access any details referring to the tracking number. Of course the tracking number says that the item was delivered – because maybe it was – but in that case it was delivered to the address on the parcel which might have been the seller's own address – or the address of a friend. I don't want to say that this is definitely how it happened, but it is a plausible scenario. Of course Hermes is an awful lot of parcels – but on the other hand I expect that most of the parcel is that going to Hermes hands are delivered successfully. We only get the bad stories on this forum. I can imagine that Hermes rate of successful deliveries is better than 97% because otherwise people wouldn't simply just hate them, they would go out of business.   We can help you bring a complaint against Hermes if you want. However, on the basis of what you say, the odds are stacked against you but it would be useful to try and find out the address which was associated with tracking number. As far as your apparent willingness to travel hundred and 50 miles to ask for your money back, don't bother. If you did actually go there, are you sure that the seller actually lives at the address that you have been given? What evidence do you have that? Of course if you found that the seller didn't reside at that address then it is slamdunk that you have been scammed. But then what are you going to do? You can try to inform the police but of course it won't get you anywhere. You can inform the sales website – but they will say that you brought it on yourself because you agreed to go off-site. You can inform PayPal – that they will say that because you sent the money which was calculated to avoid their fees, you have lost the protection. If you travelled the 150 miles and found that the seller did reside at that address, do you really think that they are going to hand your money over to you? If they are acting dishonestly then they will simply say that it is nothing to do with them, that they addressed it all correctly and they don't understand what has happened and that this is simply Hermes up to their old tricks. What are you going to do? You simply risk getting into a very nasty argument and depending on how bad it went, you might even find that the police are called and I'm afraid that they would be looking at you – not the seller. Maybe you can answer the questions that I've post above as to who it is who initiated the various ways of doing business.    
    • The legal campaign's going well then. The recount in Wisconsin gave Trump more votes but Biden even more, at a cost of $3m. And a donor to the organisation bringing the failed cases is suing to get his $2.5m back.   https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/joe-biden-gains-votes-in-wisconsin-county-after-trump-ordered-recount
    • Yes Unicorn feed tax again, can't sue the keeper for more than the Original Charge, so any additional Debt Collection fees aka the £60 they add is abuse,iof process as per HHJ Harvey at Lewes county Court What lookedinfroinfo is indicating is that the main signage on entry and dotted around is merely an " Invitation to Treat", not the offer, the Offer and Acceptance occurs at the payment machine, so wording there is key.
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OH has been making token payments £1.00 to Halifax for 6 months, CAB sent I&E originally. DN was received in February I believe the dates are out, DN was dated 18th February, areas to be paid before 4 March, I make that only 13 days. Didn't keep the envelope so not sure if it was 1st or 2nd class:evil:

 

He has now received a letter from Blair Oliver & Scott requesting full amount. Can someone tell me are BOS in-house collectors for Halifax? Is it likely that the agreement has been cancelled or not?

 

We are sending a letter to BOS, as ideally we want to carry on the token payments. Are BOS likely to freeze the interest and charges (Halifax did but have noticed on this months statement they have added them on). In the letter to OH they have mentioned door-to-door collectors, so in our response we have politely requested that due to OH health condition, which they should already know about as Halifax have all the details, that they should not send any. Haven't used the brilliant template letter on here yet, thought we'd go in slowly slowly.

 

Is it likely that Halifax would have cancelled the agreement, as OH has not received any letter from them saying they have done. In BOS letter they say they are acting on behalf of their client, so is it likely that they haven't. Not really sure how to play this:?

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OH has been making token payments £1.00 to Halifax for 6 months, CAB sent I&E originally. DN was received in February I believe the dates are out, DN was dated 18th February, areas to be paid before 4 March, I make that only 13 days. Didn't keep the envelope so not sure if it was 1st or 2nd class:evil:

 

He has now received a letter from Blair Oliver & Scott requesting full amount. Can someone tell me are BOS in-house collectors for Halifax? Is it likely that the agreement has been cancelled or not?

 

We are sending a letter to BOS, as ideally we want to carry on the token payments. Are BOS likely to freeze the interest and charges (Halifax did but have noticed on this months statement they have added them on). In the letter to OH they have mentioned door-to-door collectors, so in our response we have politely requested that due to OH health condition, which they should already know about as Halifax have all the details, that they should not send any. Haven't used the brilliant template letter on here yet, thought we'd go in slowly slowly.

 

Is it likely that Halifax would have cancelled the agreement, as OH has not received any letter from them saying they have done. In BOS letter they say they are acting on behalf of their client, so is it likely that they haven't. Not really sure how to play this:?

 

Hi joemay,

 

Blair Oliver and Scott are the in-house debt collectors for Halifax/BoS. This is standard tactics for them - trying to get blood out of a stone.

 

Personally, I would send the CCA request and then see what happens. Don't let them frighten you - you can't pay what you don't have. They know this and try to put the frighteners on but believe me, they wouldn't want this to go anywhere near a court.

 

Don't correspond with them in any way other than in writing. If they ring, just tell them that you don't want to discuss it.

 

It might not seem like it, but you are in control of this so don't be worried by anything.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Hi Fred, Thanks for the quick response.:)

 

Do you think we should just set up the standing order of £1.00, OH doesn't want it to appear that he's not willing to pay. I know if they come back saying they can't locate the CCA then he can stop paying as the account would then be in dispute.

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Hi Fred, Thanks for the quick response.:)

 

Do you think we should just set up the standing order of £1.00, OH doesn't want it to appear that he's not willing to pay. I know if they come back saying they can't locate the CCA then he can stop paying as the account would then be in dispute.

 

Hi joemay,

 

In the very unlikely event that they should ever take you to court, the fact that you have been paying them will go in your favour, so for the time being, I would pay them. After that, you should wait and see what their response is.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Please Do Not Take Any Notice Of The Letters You Have Received

From Blair Oliver And Scott

 

Just Keep Paying Your Token Amount To Halifax As They Are The Same.

 

Let Wait To See What Comes Back From Your Cca Request

 

Enjoy The Rest Of The Evening

 

 

Lilly White

Id quot circumiret, circumveniat.

 

please do not take my word for anything please do your own research All that i make comments on are done in good faith and to the best of my knowledge

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Thanks for the responses. I will send the cca, I assume it should go to BOS, if not please let me know.

 

One thing that does bother us is the fact that Halifax have now started adding interest, after they had agreed to freeze interest and charges, unfortunately the balance is currently over £12,000 so the interest being added is over £200 this month alone:eek:, it would take us 20 months to just pay of one months interest, it's madness Is there anything I can do to get them to freeze the interest again.

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Thanks for the responses. I will send the cca, I assume it should go to BOS, if not please let me know.

 

One thing that does bother us is the fact that Halifax have now started adding interest, after they had agreed to freeze interest and charges, unfortunately the balance is currently over £12,000 so the interest being added is over £200 this month alone:eek:, it would take us 20 months to just pay of one months interest, it's madness Is there anything I can do to get them to freeze the interest again.

 

Hi joemay,

 

Once again, this is standard Halifax tactics. There is not much you can do about the interest at the moment. Just wait and see what the CCA turns up. Keep us all posted.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Thanks Fred, I'll get the CCA out on Monday - Should I send it to BOS?

 

Well technically, BoS have to respond, but in this case I would send it to the Halifax. It is probably best to send it by recorded delivery. Once you get the results, scan them up here (remove personal details and barcodes etc.), then see what the result is.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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OK i'll send to Halifax, once I get response I'll scan and post. Thanks again:D

 

You're welcome joemay and good luck.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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  • 2 months later...

Hi,

 

Halifax have sent a copy of OH's application form with A4 print out of current T&C's - see here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/202042-halifax-cca-enforceable.html

 

OH has mental health issues, and has started receiveing daily text messages to call Blair Oliver & Scott, I have also received the same texts addressed to him.

 

I am going to send the letter that cyberusalert has kindly posted on the other thread, but what I'm wondering is, is it worth pointing out that OH has health problems, has no property or means to settle this debt, and we have no idea when or if he will be able to work again and whether they would consider writing off the debt, (I know it's a long shot but worth a try). If anyone could assist with a paragraph to that affect, I would be grateful.

 

One other point to mention is he is paying Halifax £1 per month by standing order.

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If your OH has mental health problems and it is possible to get a report from your GP/Consultant then write to the Halifax and ask for the debt to be written off on the gounds of medical issues.

 

I have been down the same route with Capital one for my daughter, whilst they were willing to write the debt off on receipt of a medical report they would not do it without one.

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Thanks for that surprise and well done with getting them to write off your daughters debt.

 

OH's care worker has written a letter to them explaining his situation, so I may follow up with a letter asking them to consider writing off the debt, you never know they may go for it considering that they have only produced an application form without the prescribed terms.

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As Halifax have only sent an application form without the prescribed terms should OH just send the standard letter informing BOS that the application form is not an enforceable cca?

 

Was contemplating sending letter requesting them to write off the debt, but would that not just be playing into their hands.

 

Not sure which way to go!

 

Thanks

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you have a defective DN. my advice would be to keep quiet and do not reply to any letters

 

what you WANT is a notice of termination or failing that more than one letter demanding the payment of the full balance which will amount to termination

 

once you have confirmation of termination of the account all you will owe them is the arrears that were oustanding at the time terminated(unlawfully rescinded) the agreement and they are then barred from claiming the remainder of the account!

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as soon as you get ANY letter from them or their agents or solicitors demanding the FULL balance of the account then you must STOP making any payments at all

 

(the idea is that if they have terminated the agreement (which will be an unlawful rescission of the agreement by virtue of the defective DN) then you must not do or say anything that might be seen as acknowledging that the agreement still exists

 

the idea is that you ACCEPT their unlawful rescission of the contract.

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Hi Guys,

 

I have a dilema - OH is a little reluctant to challenge BOS/Halifax due to his ill health, i'm happy to do all the work but he doesn't feel comfortable with it at present.

 

So here's the dilema, do I write to halifax asking them to consider writing off the debt (in excess of £11k) considering his dire financial and mental health situation (he has tried to take his life on 2 occassions) and if I do and they flately refuse, can we still challenge the agreement considering that they have only sent him an application without PTs. Obviously I will head the letter without prejudice so that if it should ever go to court they would not be able to produce it.

 

Any comments/suggestions would be gratefully received.

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Hi Guys,

 

I have a dilema - OH is a little reluctant to challenge BOS/Halifax due to his ill health, i'm happy to do all the work but he doesn't feel comfortable with it at present.

 

So here's the dilema, do I write to halifax asking them to consider writing off the debt (in excess of £11k) considering his dire financial and mental health situation (he has tried to take his life on 2 occassions) and if I do and they flately refuse, can we still challenge the agreement considering that they have only sent him an application without PTs. Obviously I will head the letter without prejudice so that if it should ever go to court they would not be able to produce it.

 

Any comments/suggestions would be gratefully received.

 

can u post the agreement up for us to look at without the persona; details

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Why couldnt I have had one of those CCa's? They managed to find mine from 21yrs ago looks nothing like yours and is valid:(

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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well the game is 11000 pounds.

 

so they will not give that away however as it stands they will not be able to enforce.

 

so what to do many caggers have this they will suggest that they will win in court but they would.

 

you could take them to court and may win.

 

if i may suggest you read this letter.

 

thanks to pt

 

 

Simple

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

In respect of the credit agreement you have disclosed on the XXXXXXX 2009

 

After seeking legal advice from a Consumer Credit Law specialist i can comment as follows.

 

The agreement you disclosed is improperly executed, it is not compliant primarily with s61(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the consequences are that as it stands the agreement is unenforceable and requires an order of the court pursuant to section 65(1) CCA 1974 to be remedy this problem. you are invited to make such an application for the said order.

 

Upon such an application i will rely upon the following points

 

The agreement is a fixed sum credit agreement, the rate of interest under the agreement is fixed for the term of the loan, there are no items entering into the charge for credit which are likely to be subject to change or variation therefore the agreement requires a term stating the Total Charge for credit with or without a list of its constituent parts, the agreement does not contain this term and therefore breaches Regulation 2 and Schedule 1 Para 9 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983.

 

The agreement must as a consequence of para 9, also include a term stating the total amount payable, again this agreement does not contain such information and therefore the agreement also breaches Reg 2 and Schedule 1 para 11 Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983 and therefore the agreement does not comply with the regulations made by the secretary of state under the powers given by s60(1) of the 1974 Act and accordingly the agreement doesn ot comply with the strict requirements of s61(1)(a) Consumer Credit Act nor did it comply with s61(1) © Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

These breachs are clearly prejudicial to me as on entering into the agreement i was not givne the informatiuon that the Consumer Credit Act required to be made clear, i was not aware of the true cost of borrowing.

 

I would further highlight that Lloyds TSB subscribes to the Banking Code, as a requiremento f the code, they are required to lend responsibly and they clearly have failed in their duty under the code

 

my contention is that the court should not make an enforcement order, my authority for this contention would primarily be the case of Wlaker v SPPL in the Chester High Court before HHJ Derek Halbert. however if the court were minded to make an order for enforcement my argument would fall directly upon Rank Xerox Finance Limited vs Hepple CCLR 1994 1 and in this case the court taking into account a single breach of schedule 1 Agrement Regs reduced the amount of debt from £5000 to £500 to compensate the debtor for the prejudice caused

 

in view of this and in view of the fact you require an order from the court to enforce this agreement as clearly set out within the act, and the House of Lords in Wilson and First County Trust 2003 UKHL 40, i would invite your proposals to settle my dispute. i would also advise that i am informed that , i am able to apply to the court to consider this matter pursuant to section 142(1) CCA 1974 if no suitable agreement can be met.

 

however i trust this will not be necessary

 

I look forward to your settlement proposals

 

regards

have a read and see what you think

 

EDIT TO SUIT

Edited by lilly white
forgot to put link

Id quot circumiret, circumveniat.

 

please do not take my word for anything please do your own research All that i make comments on are done in good faith and to the best of my knowledge

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Thanks lilly white, but I'm a little confused with the letter, would it still be relevant as OH's isn't a loan agreement but a Credit Card?

 

I wouldn't be confident in them writing the amount off, but you never know - what i need to know is would we be putting OH in to the sticky stuff by sending a letter asking for them to consider write off.

 

It would be great to know if anyone has asked for creditor to write debt off then after refusal, have they managed to challenge the CCA and what was the outcome.

 

I look forward to your responses as I don't want OH to end up in the sticky stuff:D

Edited by joemay
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