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S78 (1) and Regulation2 illegible docs


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Hi Everyone, Need a bit of advice from one of you experienced people.

 

Firstly can somebody advise me if 2007 T&C's can be used for application forms signed in 1998/1999?? I understood the T&C's were to be within the signature document and not on seperate sheets.

 

Secondly, both agreements sent by Capital one and MBNA were illegible in places in particular the small print which i would assume to be the important bits if there was any in the first place. I have written to both companies quoting Regulation 2 (legibility of notices and copy docs) and advising them they have not complied with my S78 (1) request. Each letter i have sent i have demanded a legible copy. Nothing has appeared only threatening letters from their external agents. I was advised a while ago that when an account is in dispute it could not be passed to other agents or commence litigation. Please advise:confused:

Gizmo7

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The prescribed terms must be within the four corners of the signed document, these include %APR, repayment terms & credit limit.

 

If you cannot read what they've sent they have not fullfilled your request, you are entitled to a legible copy.

 

Since you've already complained & disputed the a/c because of the illegibility of them & they are continuing to pursue make a complaint to the OFT.

debtcollectionguidance@oft.gsi.gov.uk

 

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The prescribed terms must be within the four corners of the signed document, these include %APR, repayment terms & credit limit.

 

If you cannot read what they've sent they have not fullfilled your request, you are entitled to a legible copy.

 

Since you've already complained & disputed the a/c because of the illegibility of them & they are continuing to pursue make a complaint to the OFT.

debtcollectionguidance@oft.gsi.gov.uk

 

tel: 020 7211 5823

Hi, cerberusalert, I made a complaint to the OFT and Trading stds. Trading stds advised me that credit card companies can supply seperate T&C's and up to date ones for that matter on running accounts.

If these companies decide on court action how does the Regulation 2 fair in a court. Is it a valid defence in relation to illegible docs??

Thanks Gizmo7

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Trading stds advised me that credit card companies can supply seperate T&C's

Yes they can, but to comply with the CCA 1974 the agreement must have the prescibed terms within the four corners of the signed document.

 

If these companies decide on court action how does the Regulation 2 fair in a court. Is it a valid defence in relation to illegible docs??

If they were to go to court you could bring them to 'strict proof' which means they have to provide the original agreement not a copy.

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Cerberasulert, Both these application forms were supplied with seperate terms and conditions showing things like apr etc. MBNA have sent 3 blown up copies each time i complained they got bigger but the same area's were illegible. When i mentioned the T&C's should be within the four corners of the page they sent a photocopy of the application form with the seperate T&C's on the back (double sided photocopying).

Cabot advised the capital one Application would have been legible when i signed it indicating it didn't need to be now.

Trading Standards were very negative saying they had no powers to do anything.

Gizmo7

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Cerberusalert, I forgot to mention cabot advised in a letter to me they didn't have to provide an original true copy if it no longer existed. I assume the original was shredded and this is a computer copy

Gizmo7

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I forgot to mention cabot advised in a letter to me they didn't have to provide an original true copy if it no longer existed. I assume the original was shredded and this is a computer copy

:D Oh but they do. :rolleyes:

 

If they were stupid enough to take it to court they would have to produce the original agreement, pure & simple. Without one they are stuffed you would have an absolute defence.

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Cerberusalert, Trading stds did not seem to be aware of Regulation 2. Furthermore he reconed if it went to court the Judge may rule in their favour. Whats your take on things as they stand and what further action should i take if any.

Trading stds advised me to futher contact MBNA even though they have not written to me since the start or March.

Thanks

Gizmo7

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To be honest the average joe in TS doesn't have a clue when it comes to the CCA 1974 & rather than brush up on it they'd rather not get involved.

 

A judge would not be able to rule in their favour with the absence of an enforceable CCA. As I said it's a complete defence.

 

I wouldn't bother doing anything myself, the balls firmly in their court now so you might as well wait to see what their next move is.

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The debts will be sold on to a DCA first, but in the absence of an enforceable agreement most of them will drop it like a hot potato. In the unlikely event that a DCA tried to obtain a CCJ, some of them use the Northampton Bulk Centre but when you defend it'll be transferred to your local court. Again in a lot of cases when they realise that you will defend they drop it.

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If they have sent you an inky blob as an agreement, you ask them in court to please show the court where it says in the agreement (that you allegedly signed) where the repayment terms are and what they say; where the interest rates are and what they say etc.. When their legal eagle reads out blobby, blobby, blob, blob they would tend to lose credibility IMHO.

Nationwide - Prelim sent 02/07 - MCOL filed 04/07 CHARGES SETTLED IN FULL!!

Woolwich- Prelim sent 04/07 - Offered 90% - 06/07 accepted

MBNA - Prelim sent 02/07 - CCA request sent 03/07 - CCA reply (illegible + no T&Cs) - DCA sent packing - Restons now trying - gone quiet

Citicard - Prelim sent 02/07 - CCA request sent 04/07 - replied 04/07 No contract & not enforcing!- passed to 1st Credit- gone quiet

Egg - Prelim sent 02/08 - 3 letters - full offer 03/08 SETTLED IN FULL!!

(All starry, rep, clicky thingies gratefully received!)

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Hi Steve, The signature is legible its other parts that are not for example the Cap one application info under Consumer credit agreement is totally illegible. 2007 T&C's are supplied on 2 seperate sheets which show apr etc are legible but seperate from the signature doc never the less.

The MBNA one has patches of illegibility on both the application form and seperate T&C's.

Gizmo7:rolleyes:

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