request for CCA in limbo!

[obilisk]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first time here, and I`d be really grateful for some help on this one.

Back in late February, I wrote to my credit card company requesting a copy of my origional signed CCA and sent them the £1 payment.

The 12 working days and the further 30 days passed, and I`d heard nothing.

So I wrote to them last week, a couple of days after the time had expired, and explained that they had now commited an offence and I would give them a further 7 days to reply, and if they didn`t, I would report the matter to the Financial Ombudsman service and the Office of Fair Trading.

Today I received the following reply...

 

I am sorry you have had cause to complain. Thankyou for bringing

your concerns to my attention.

I have arranged for a member of my customer service recovery

team to carry out an immediate investigation, so that you will

receive a full response from us.

Because of the issues raised, it may take a little time to gather

all of the information together, but we will respond within 28 days.

 

Can anyone tell me what I should do now please? Thanks.

[cerberusalert]

The part about them committing an offence was removed from the Act last year. You may as well wait now to see what their response is going to be in regards to your complaint before you push things further.

[obilisk]

The part about them committing an offence was removed from the Act last year. You may as well wait now to see what their response is going to be in regards to your complaint before you push things further.

 

OK, thanks for that. Do you think they`re just buying themselves more time so that they have longer to find it?

[andydd]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first time here, and I`d be really grateful for some help on this one.

Back in late February, I wrote to my credit card company requesting a copy of my origional signed CCA and sent them the £1 payment.

The 12 working days and the further 30 days passed, and I`d heard nothing.

So I wrote to them last week, a couple of days after the time had expired, and explained that they had now commited an offence and I would give them a further 7 days to reply, and if they didn`t, I would report the matter to the Financial Ombudsman service and the Office of Fair Trading.

Today I received the following reply...

 

I am sorry you have had cause to complain. Thankyou for bringing

your concerns to my attention.

I have arranged for a member of my customer service recovery

team to carry out an immediate investigation, so that you will

receive a full response from us.

Because of the issues raised, it may take a little time to gather

all of the information together, but we will respond within 28 days.

 

Can anyone tell me what I should do now please? Thanks.

 

Although legally you may be able to withold payments whilst they are still looking for it, its prob not worth it in the long run, wait the extra 28 days and if nothing arrives write them a letter (there are good templates on here) pointing out that they MUSt either send you a CCA or admit they havnt got one.

 

If a CCA arrives and you think its not enforceable then that MAY be to the time to start getting heavy

 

Andy

[obilisk]

The part about them committing an offence was removed from the Act last year. You may as well wait now to see what their response is going to be in regards to your complaint before you push things further.

 

So they don`t commit an offence anymore? So does a 30 day period after the 12 working days mean nothing at all now? Does it still apply?

[cerberusalert]

No it doesn't apply anymore.

[obilisk]

Hi again,

Further to the last letter, I have just received this (quicker than I expected, admittedly)

I`m sorry for the delay in responding to your request for

documentation under s 78 of the Consumer Credit act 1974.

Unfortunately, we have had a high volume of such requests

recently, but I can assure you that we will respond shortly to

your request.

If you would like to discuss your finances, come into one of

our branches and see a financial health specialist. They have

been trained to provide a free service to help you with your

finances, giving you guidance to get your finances back into

shape.

I hope this fully answers the points you have raised with us.

If we cannot come to an agreement, I will give you details of

the financial ombudsman service so they can consider your

complaint independantly.

 

I don`t see what much of that has to do with a request for a CCA! What

should I do now? It`s been about 9 weeks or so now, since they received my letter asking for it!

Any help will be very much appreciated Thanks alot.

[cerberusalert]

Send them this;

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested, any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[obilisk]

Thanks Cerberusalert, that is very much appreciated

[obilisk]

The CCA has arrived now, but it looks a bit iffy to me. There is an application form with my signature and theirs, but the APR rate, information on repayments etc. are on a seperate "Terms and Conditions" sheet.

I can`t see any mention of a credit limit on the Terms and Conditions sheet, although some of it is very difficult to read, and some parts, headed General, and Variation of the Agreement are utterly illegible. The APR and interest rates are clear enough though.

Maybe because of this, they have also sent the current Terms and Conditions too, on a seperate few sheets.

Does this sound unenforcible? Any help would be great. Thanks

[cerberusalert]

Can you post them up so we can have a look at them? It doesn't matter about the updated T&Cs.

 

If you scan them, or take a digital picture using 'macro-mode' upload them to TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting then copy & paste the URL back here.

[obilisk]

Unfortunately, I don`t have the facilities to do anything like that. Really sorry Cerberus

[cerberusalert]

Without being able to see it makes it difficult.

 

Do the old T&Cs look as if they belong to the application? Is it the same font & would they fit on the reverse of the application? On the application itself are there any indications which says something like 'fold here & seal'?

[obilisk]

No, there`s nothing that says fold and seal, although the font is the same.

It does say "I accept and agree to be bound by the conditions of use as set out overleaf" on the part headed Request and Acceptance of Conditions" on the application form just above my signature, if that helps

[cerberusalert]

I does sound as if they are part of 'the four corners' of the application which would make it an enforceable agreement if they are genuine. But without seeing them I obviously cannot be 100% certain.

[obilisk]

OK, thanks anyway Cerberus.

[obilisk]

Actually, as I look, I can see the words "Credit Agreement regulated by Consumer credit Act 1974" from the front top of the application form are showing through in reverse on the Conditions of Use sheet, so it looks like the terms ARE on the back of the application form.

[obilisk]

The more I look at this, the more I am inclined to think that there is something phoney about it.

Is it feasible that the printing on one side of the application form would show through on the other side when photocopied? surely the paper they used wouldn`t be that thin, would it?

It looks a little too perfect. Would they really fake this or am I being paranoid?

[cerberusalert]

It's not so much faking as using 'smoke & mirrors', making something appear to be what it isn't.

 

Sometimes you do get 'bleed-through' when a document is scanned, it all depends what settings have been used on the copier & the paper quality of the original.