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"Parking Charge" £70 Euro Car Parks?


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Unfortunately on this occasion I did not have my Mum with me.

 

You've got some front to be complaining then. The fact that you used the Disabled Badge in this manner is an Offence in itself and something that you should be ashamed of. It is also deeply disrespectful to your Mother.

 

You have no right to be so self-righteous in this particular instance and does no-one any favours in fighting back against the Parasites who feel they have the right to slap charges on others in such a discriminating fashion - all brought on no doubt because of the actions of people like you in the 1st place!

 

How can the CAG maintain respect when you use this Forum to air grievances when you are clearly in the wrong to begin with? It is just hypocritical, and gives those we are fighting a chance to have a go back at us.

 

In future remove the Badge and Pay the Correct Parking Charge just like the rest of us.

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You've got some front to be complaining then. The fact that you used the Disabled Badge in this manner is an Offence in itself

 

No, it's not. This is a private car park and as such there is no legislation relating to the use of blue badges - they are not even necessarily recognised.

 

 

You may be morally outraged - but that is very different from something being a criminal matter.

 

(and to be pedantic, where a council is responsible for parking enforcement, it is not offence; it is a contravention)

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PatDavies - you are correct about it not being an 'Offence'. Apologies, however from the Dept for Transport website ...

 

"I think a badge is being misused, what should I do?

 

Report the matter to your local council (a list of contacts is available here). If possible, you should get as many details as possible from the badge on display (name, serial number, expiry date, etc). The council will investigate the matter and take appropriate action if the badge can be shown to be displayed fraudulently."

 

I accept that this relates to on-street parking as opposed to off-street, but the fact that they use the word 'fraudulently' would indicate an offence of some description. That would in effect be illegal parking i.e. not paying. That is subject to a 'Penalty Charge Notice' rather than a privately raised 'Parking Charge Notice'.

 

If the private Car Park allows free parking for Blue Badge holders, which the one in question does, then an obvious abuse has occurred. And morally the abuser deserves some form of charge as punishment. How much that should be is open to conjecture, but it should in my opinion be more than what the charges would have been had parking been paid for in the first instance. If not what deterrent is there to 'abusers' such as this?

 

If anyone thinks I am defending Parking Charges or such like - I dislike them as much as anyone does. The point is that most people respect the jurisdiction of the land that they have parked on and act accordingly. Just as I would take someone to task for abusing a Disabled Parking Bay because they do not have a Blue Badge in the 1st instance, I will also voice my dislike for those who abuse the Blue Badges themselves.

 

As the uncle of a seriously mentally and physically disabled boy of 11yrs old I understand only too well the issues involved. It is distressing for the mother of that boy, who also amazingly copes with twin sons of 7yrs, when she has the need for a designated parking space that is being taken up by someone who is just plain lazy and inconsiderate.

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If the person had parked in a disbaled space I would agree that this should not be condoned.

 

However if the person is simply taking the oppurtunity to park for free as offered, I don't really see a problem. There is a difference between misusing a favourable parking space, and merely taking the discount on offer; after all, he could be shopping for his mum or picking up medication for her. It is the family as a whole benefitting from the discount, not just kazzaw: that's how family's usually work, especially in a carer realtionship.

 

In anycase, it is immoral for a parking company to give contractual permission for someone to misuse a disabled bay in return for a large payment. I doubt such a contract is enforcable.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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Zamzara - it is an abuse no matter how you term it. Every time someone like this abuses the facility on offer the more opportunity is given to the Car Park operator to increase their charges. You and I pay for that!

 

It's why goods in shops are priced as they are - the margin is calculated to recover the loss on theft. I am in the Finance Industry and the rates that any finance company charges are based on the likelihood of Bad Debt occurring on their lending to clients. All of the 'good' customers pay for the debts of the 'bad' customers. That is a fact of life.

 

It why companies like 'YES Car Credit' charge a high rate of interest - they are lending to customers with a High Risk of bad debt.

 

Car with a YES sticker in the back window=driver has a bad credit history!

 

There is no other reason for going to them in the first instance.

 

So when someone gets away without paying for their parking everyone else pays for it. Doesn't sound quite so appealing now does it?

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The whole system has never been appealing to me. It's corrupt to the core, especially when you consider that we already pay road tax to be allowed to park on the street. Government, councils, and private companies have been double or triple dipping for too long. And if I have to pay another penny on my parking fee, if it helps someone with a disbaled mother save a bit of money to care for her better, yes I am ok with that.

 

None of which changes the fact that no enforcable penalty is owed by people given any kind of 'ticket' in private car parks.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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I have some sympathies with your sentiments particularly with regards to on-street parking, but we all have responsibilities and obligations to each other. We all want to use city/town centres and there really is only so much space to go around.

 

If a Car Park operator wants to charge me to keep my car/motorcycle secure whilst I go off and enjoy myself then who am I to argue. Whether they do keep it safe and secure is dependant on the location and the operator but in essence I am happy to pay a reasonable Parking Charge for the peace of mind it brings me.

 

I just don't see why someone else should jeopardise that by abusing the situation.

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I just don't see why someone else should jeopardise that by abusing the situation.

 

I'm sorry, are you saying that Euro Car Parks and similar parasites will raise their car parking charges if there aren't enough gullible people paying their unenforceable penalties?

 

And this is therefore a valid reason for paying such penalties?

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No, and if you re-read my post (and previous ones) rather than looking for an argument, you would see that I am saying that if there was a constant stream of patrons trying to avoid paying the Car Parking charges in the first place then they would have the excuse to raise their charges. That's just common business sense.

 

Penalty Charges are something different entirely. And what I am saying there is that if there is an obvious abuse of the facility then it is entirely justifiable for a penalty of some sort to be levied - how much is reasonable is not necessarily for me to say.

 

Of course it is always better when you pay for the time you have spent there on departure. That way there is very little scope for the operator to levy a penalty charge.

 

Are you trying to defend someone who has knowingly used a Blue Badge inappropriately? Isn't that as bad as defending someone who parks in a Disabled Space without a permit just because they are lazy and inconsiderate? Doesn't that sort of abuse not give the operators all of the ammunition that they want to impose higher Parking Charges and penalties?

 

I am not arguing for the operators - I am arguing against those that unwittingly help them in their cause. The regular abusers, of whom there are many! Try and spot the difference.

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Penalty Charges are something different entirely. And what I am saying there is that if there is an obvious abuse of the facility then it is entirely justifiable for a penalty of some sort to be levied - how much is reasonable is not necessarily for me to say.

 

The whole point is that this is private parking. Penalties are unlawful; ipso facto it cannot be reasonable to levy them

 

Of course it is always better when you pay for the time you have spent there on departure. That way there is very little scope for the operator to levy a penalty charge.

 

See above, there is no lawful scope for an operator to levy a penalty

 

Are you trying to defend someone who has knowingly used a Blue Badge inappropriately? Isn't that as bad as defending someone who parks in a Disabled Space without a permit just because they are lazy and inconsiderate? Doesn't that sort of abuse not give the operators all of the ammunition that they want to impose higher Parking Charges and penalties?

 

This is private parking; blue badges have no validity; thus there can be no abuse in law

 

I am not arguing for the operators - I am arguing against those that unwittingly help them in their cause. The regular abusers, of whom there are many! Try and spot the difference.

 

But you are - you are saying that a penalty may be reasonable. Leaving aside the morality - which cannot be contracted - there is nothing unlawful in displaying the blue badge in this case.

 

I can spot the difference. Morally,the act may have been wrong; legally it is not and therefore is not liable to penalty - enforceable or otherwise.

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Then please answer this simple question:

 

If this is all so unlawful how are they able to do so with the full knowledge of the Gov't and the connivance of the DVLA? I suspect that what is questionable is the amount of 'penalty' (word used advisedly) and whether or not that can be deemed to be a reasonable cost. Just as the costs that a Solicitor is trying to charge me which I deem to be unreasonable i.e. charging for taking a phone call to inform him that there is a cheque in the post to them! True!

 

If someone has used a Blue Badge to obtain Free Parking under false pretences then that is a breach of the Contract that the user entered into when using the parking facility.

 

What I said about 'pay on departure' was to draw a distinction between those operators who provide such a facility (the more honest I suspect) and others who will seek to find an excuse to levy a 'penalty' (again for want of a better expression, hence the small 'p' which is why I used it in my previous post ... sigh).

 

If you want to believe that I am on the side of these operators then carry on believing that - try looking in some other posts to see the success I have recently enjoyed. But I will make no excuse for regular abusers who make life more difficult for the rest of us.

 

What should be outlawed are the Parking Ticket Machines that cannot give out change. In this day and age that is unacceptable - the worst culprits being Local Authorities.

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Then please answer this simple question:

 

If this is all so unlawful how are they able to do so with the full knowledge of the Gov't and the connivance of the DVLA? I suspect that what is questionable is the amount of 'penalty' (word used advisedly) and whether or not that can be deemed to be a reasonable cost.

 

Because the use of private land in these circumstances is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.

 

The DVLA are required to provide details of registered keepers for a fee, where just cause can be shown. Despite complaints, they turn a blind eye in order to keep their £2.50's rolling in.

 

Your suspicion is wrong. The amount of the penalty is totally irrelevant; private parking can only be a matter of contract; English law does not allow penalties within such a contract. It is for this reason that these parasites and their debt collectors never take anybody to the small claims court - they would lose.

 

May I suggest that you reads Pete's thread regarding private parking tickets and then this may be clearer.

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Briefly reading through that thread seems to indicate that the size of 'penalty' does carry some relevance. It also tells me that this is a vaguely grey area where some interpretation could swing the argument, although I personally am confident about facing up to PPC's and the like.

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Quick update - All charges have been cancelled by total parking solutions. I sent the same dispute letter by snail mail and got a totally different response than the snotty agressive e-mail reply. thanks for all the help.

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OK guys, here's my tale of woe!

The week before I Christmas parked on the local Sainsbury's/TKMaxx car park for the usual 2 hours free parking. Arrived at about 9.30am and was gone for 11.15am. Went home for lunch with my girl friend who then decided we need to go back into the town centre for some extra Christmas shopping. Arrived at approx 1.15pm at the same car park, left the car and went about our usual business. Came back to the car well within the 2 hours to find a ticket explaining we had overstayed our 2 hours from 11am to 3pm..!

Obviously the numpty issuing the tickets had clocked it in the morning and then again in the afternoon.

I have had the letters from Euro Car parks but just ignored them. Now the "Controlaccount" team are on the case trying to get the £75.00 out of me.

Blow me I haven't done anything wrong.

It begs the question "Can I only spend 2 hours a day on that car park per day? I can just imagine the management team of TKMaxx and Sainsbury's fighting over my precious 2 hour custom..!

I have 5 working days to sort it out.

I am the RK and it was me that was on the car park, but I have a bone fide witness(girlfriend) that will testify that the car was on the front drive of the house for a good 2 hours in the middle of the day.

Any suggestions..?

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How often do you check the parking duration printed on a ticket?

This week I went to Reading and paid for a two hour ticket. The car parking machine's clock was inaccurate and gave me one and three quarter hours.

If I had not looked at the ticket and returned within my two hours I would have risked a hefty penalty.

I'd like to think that this clock error was due to a genuine fault as I don't believe that "The Council" would resort to such trickery to increase the penalty revenue.( insert smiley here!)

The attendant arriving on his scooter kindly said that he would report the inaccurate parking meter clock to "The Council"

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OK guys, here's my tale of woe!

The week before I Christmas parked on the local Sainsbury's/TKMaxx car park for the usual 2 hours free parking. Arrived at about 9.30am and was gone for 11.15am. Went home for lunch with my girl friend who then decided we need to go back into the town centre for some extra Christmas shopping. Arrived at approx 1.15pm at the same car park, left the car and went about our usual business. Came back to the car well within the 2 hours to find a ticket explaining we had overstayed our 2 hours from 11am to 3pm..!

Obviously the numpty issuing the tickets had clocked it in the morning and then again in the afternoon.

 

I had an almost identical situation a few years back when I went to Safeway in the morning, then went back in the afternoon. Unfortunately my car was clamped and, although the supervisor in Safeway could see from the security footage that I had left in the morning and come back again in the afternoon, the clamping company refused to remove the clamp until I paid the money.

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Filthy Monkey

I would have called the Police - if they refused to attend then I would have made such a song and dance that they would have had to attend due to a disturbance! I would have resorted to taking goods from their store without paying leaving them a note at the time saying that I would pay for them or return them once my vehicle had been released without charge. I know this pushes the boundaries but that's me I'm afraid.

 

Jigpig

Have you still got any receipts or statements showing purchases for that day?

 

Contact the Customer Services dept at Sainsbury's and TK Maxx and make a nuisance of yourself politely.

 

Ask them why their Car Park Attendants are doing such a bad job of checking that it took them all that time to discover that your car appeared to have stayed way beyond their permitted time. Ask them how they would overcome this to avoid this situation arising. If they say that it is 2hrs daily then check that their signs say that. If not there is no contract (not that there was one in the 1st place!).

 

Stand your ground - write to Sainsburys/TKMaxx saying that as a genuine customer you object to being treated in such a fashion. Tell them that under no circumstance do you feel obligated to pay this charge. Ask them to declare how the charge can be deemed to be a fair and appropriate estimate of their loss when there is no charge to park to begin with. The space that the car was taking up - even if it did stay there for longer than requested - would not have provided them with any revenue even had it been removed. Unfair Contract Law and all that. Copy in the Parking Company on all correspondence.

 

Let them take you to Court - 1) they won't, and 2) if they do they will have an impossible job proving their case in Court, which is what they will have to do to make it stick.

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Filthy Monkey

I would have called the Police - if they refused to attend then I would have made such a song and dance that they would have had to attend due to a disturbance! I would have resorted to taking goods from their store without paying leaving them a note at the time saying that I would pay for them or return them once my vehicle had been released without charge. I know this pushes the boundaries but that's me I'm afraid.

 

I did call the police, but the woman on the phone was very unhelpful and refused to assist as they considered it to be a civil matter. Grrrr!!

 

Just after I hung up the phone to her, though, a couple of policement pulled up to buy some food, so I asked them for help. They were very sympathetic to my case, but also said they could not get involved as it was a civil matter. They spoke to the store manager and insisted that he kept copies of all the security footage in case I needed it to back up my case, but stupidly I just paid the money, tried to go through the appeals procedure and then just let it drop. I'm a lot wiser now, though, so if it happens again I will not let it go!!!

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there,

 

My first post! I also managed to fall foul of a private car park (City Parking Enforcement Ltd), overstaying a 3 hour limit by 40 minutes & was handed a 'Parking Charge Notice' for 120 quid.

 

It goes through the usual spiel about checking with DVLA, and so, as registered keeper,

 

'In accordance with the contract that was agreed to upon entering the site, you are hereby required to pay the sum of 120 pounds within 28 days...we will accept the sum of 60 pounds if received by us before 24/5/2007. If payment is _not_ received within 28 days, you will incur an extra 40 pounds administration charge, and we reserve the right to take further action to recover this debt with interest.'

 

Here's the wording of the 'Parking Conditions', as reproduced in the 'PCN':

 

'Free parking for customers of XXXXX only. Maximum stay 3 hours between 8.00am - 8.00 pm or by arrangement with store managers. The private car park is managed independently by City Parking Authority. If your vehicle remains in this car park beyond the time stated for any reason, a fixed penalty charge of 120 pounds shall be levied and enforced (reduced to 60 pounds if paid within 14 days). Payment can be made by telephoning xxxxxxx. Failure to make prompt payment will incur additional costs. City Parking Authority will contact the DVLA to obtain your details. WE ARE HOLDING PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE ON FILE TO SUPPORT THIS CLAIM'

 

It also talks about a patrol having 'recorded' my vehicle, and the document also has a 'PCN' date & number.

 

My first thoughts for points to make in a letter:

1) The usual aspect of challenging them to prove who the driver was (which sounds doubtful if they're using a patrol rather than entrance/exit CCTV), and provide me with a copy of the photographic evidence they have.

2) Challenge the signage. There was no sign visible from where I was parked, but I'd have to go back & re-check.

3) Challenge the conditions. As far as I can see, even if a contract existed implicitly, there is no agreement for even the driver to pay any charge. AFAIK, the driver would be quite happy for any charge to be 'levied and enforced', but there is no mention of who that might be against.:D

4) Isn't the mention of a 'penalty' illegal?

 

Any feedback much appreciated!!

 

Thanks!

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Thanks again Rob S for that link - I'd already had a look at that link before I posted (& printed it out in full!), as well as others, and have indeed found it amazingly helpful.

 

As I say, if anyone has any other feedback on the specifics of my post, (particularly any comments on the wording of the conditions, and the main points I'm planning to raise), I'd be very grateful.

 

Thanks again!

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Tommy,

 

I wouldn't worry about getting embroiled in the conditions at the site, I would keep it nice and simple and inform them that their issue is with the driver of the vehicle, not the registered keeper, and that you as the RK are not responsible for their "penalty".

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