Tips and gratuites, a bit of advise please.

[Windywoo]

This is a bit of a long shot, but I will try to explain this as best I can.

 

My daughter works for a company, which has a retail side and a hospitatilty section - she works in the coffee shop. Her employer came into see her on Friday, and told her that some time in the near future, he would be taking their tip box once a week, and dividing it between the whole of the work force (including those people standing behind the tills). My daughter is livid!

 

I did a bit of research on the internet, and seemingly, the employer cannot take charge of the tips unless it is written into the employees contract, which it won't be, and if he handles the money and then distributes it himself, he is liable for NIC. If he gives the money to a troncmaster, who then distributes it, the employer is still liable for the NIC. If he leaves well alone, the NIC is not payable.

 

The main thing which concerns me, is, the tips were given to my daughter and her team for their hospitality, it was not given to somebody standing in a shop! Is her employer allowed to distribute THEIR money like this??

[tendogs]

Good morning, I've just read this: - http://www.vantisplc.com/NR/rdonlyres/2D1186D0-C895-4FCB-B13E-96463B94DE8E/0/TheVantisPodcast02Transcript.pdf it seemed to clarify things (very complicated) forgive me if you've seen it before.

[Conniff]

Aren't the people standing behind the till part of the team?

[Windywoo]

Good morning, I've just read this: - http://www.vantisplc.com/NR/rdonlyres/2D1186D0-C895-4FCB-B13E-96463B94DE8E/0/TheVantisPodcast02Transcript.pdf it seemed to clarify things (very complicated) forgive me if you've seen it before.

 

TY for this tendogs, it's exactly what my daughter wants to hear!!

[Windywoo]

Aren't the people standing behind the till part of the team?

 

Only if they are on the hospitality side of things it seems.

 

It looks as if it is all covered by the Catering Wages Act 1943 and Wages Act 1986, the employer has no say in the allocation of cash tips, as it is not his money!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

I think he will do it regardless, such a thing happened where my sister worked, she complained, she tried to argue that it was not his money, his responce was "it yours then" well clearly it was not.

Guess what happened some workers called her greedy and other insults, the rest sent her to Coventry.

Is it worth the agro I dont think so.

 

Andy

Edited April 26, 2009 by old_andrew2007
typo

[Windywoo]

I think he will do it regardless, such a thing happened where my sister worked, she complained, she tried to argue that it was not his money, his responce was "it yours then" well clearly it was not.

Guess what happened some workers called her greedy and other insults, the rest sent her to Coventry.

Is it worth the agro I dont think so.

 

Andy

 

It's a team of people this affects, so one person won't be singled out!

 

If the cash tips are left in a jam jar, and divvied out at the end of the day, the money DOES NOT belong to the employer, and he has no say in how the money is allocated. If it was a service charge, then it's a different matter....!!

 

Employers cannot do as they please IMO!!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

IT was the other employees you previously did not get a portion of the tips who made my sisters life a misery, she was the only one of the original team who spoke up.

I'm not too sure what your daughter can do, will the whole team stand up to the employer, or as was the case for my sister leave some poor sod to go out on a limb.

The tips were then shared out amonst the whole team, my sister works for another employer, was she sad to go she tells me not, she saw a few so called friends for what they are.

 

Andy

[Windywoo]

IT was the other employees you previously did not get a portion of the tips who made my sisters life a misery, she was the only one of the original team who spoke up.

I'm not too sure what your daughter can do, will the whole team stand up to the employer, or as was the case for my sister leave some poor sod to go out on a limb.

The tips were then shared out amonst the whole team, my sister works for another employer, was she sad to go she tells me not, she saw a few so called friends for what they are.

 

Andy

 

My daughter is speaking on behalf of the whole team - on the hospitality side that is.

 

I have printed off tendogs' link - it gives all the information, she can wave it under her employers nose if need be!!

 

The fact being that, the retail sales people earn more, for less work than the girls in the coffee shop (my daughter earns just above MW)and the tips really help!!

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

I dont disagree with you, but your daughters employer simply could give an employee of another section the role of Troncmaster, it seems unfair because it is unfair.

I suppose another alternative is to end gratuities that would be harsh.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited April 26, 2009 by old_andrew2007
typo

[Windywoo]

I think I'll just give her the information - they can all sort it out themselves!!

[hightail]

I always ask how tips are shared out and don't leave a gratuity unless they are shared out to all employees. Just because the cleaner isn't there or I don't see the poor potwasher in the kitchen doesn't mean they don't contribute to my front of house experience.

[patdavies]

I always ask how tips are shared out and don't leave a gratuity unless they are shared out to all employees. Just because the cleaner isn't there or I don't see the poor potwasher in the kitchen doesn't mean they don't contribute to my front of house experience.

 

And I do exactly the opposite.

 

I tip for the service provided and not the food or the washing up, etc. I never add a tip to the credit card bill, but leave cash for the server - I will also inquire as to whether it is for him/her alone or whether tips are 'pooled'.

[Windywoo]

I always ask how tips are shared out and don't leave a gratuity unless they are shared out to all employees. Just because the cleaner isn't there or I don't see the poor potwasher in the kitchen doesn't mean they don't contribute to my front of house experience.

 

I would agree with you!

 

When you cash tip somebody and the money is pooled, it should go to everybody who worked, to provide you with a good experience, be it the person who served the meal, or the person who mopped the floors in the hospitality area.

 

You would not want your money going to a complete seperate side of a business ie somebody selling a peice of furniture!!!

[hightail]

No matter how good the service was I wouldn't tip if the loos were filthy. The cleaner (who we never see) is providing as much of a service as a waiter. If an individual has gone way beyond what's considered just good service then I sometimes give them cash into their own hand.

[Conniff]

I agree that tipping the waiter etc; that gives good service is the way I do it, if you give someone cash and it is a shared tip regime, then they can be done for theft if they pocket it, so watch the next time you do that and you see them put it in the pot anyway.

[tendogs]

Never really thought much about them, tips that is. Usually leave one and usually it’s about 10%.

The mechanism of managing the money is another thing and I think that was the point of the original post.

There are issues about who owns the tip, if it attracts tax (always), if it attracts National Insurance and if it attracts VAT and these variables change depending upon how the tip is paid.

If I leave money on the table for a member of staff, for whatever reason, that money is their property, it does not belong to the management, the VAT man or the National Insurance woman, the inland revenue, however, will always take a portion and they expect records to be kept and disclosures to be made.

One might hope that the recipient of the tip would find it in their heart to spread the cash around the pot-boy or the cleaner but they are under no obligation so to do.