15 yr old son got fine, Bailiffs hounding gran for £271!!! urgent advice needed!!

[vegus]

My prat of a son swore at a police officer and got taken to court and fined £20 - my elderly mum attended court ( I had to go to work) with the little sod and her details were taken by the court re the fine. She lost the information re the fine and becuase I am trying to keep the prat out of prison and me out of custody ( I want to tan his arse), we forgot about the fine. This fine should have been paid by 23/3/09. I wasn't that worried as I though the court would write to me, not my mum and remind me to pay, but they did not write to either of us.

My mum was away in April - has written confirmation she was not in England, and today on her return there are 2 notes from MARSTON, dated 17/4 and 23/4, saying they visited her home and will remove her goods.

On the first note it lists the following: PCN/FINES £46,ADMIN FEE £50, ATTENDANCE COSTS, £175, = 271.

Can someone advise on the following please, as neither one of us have got £30, let alone £271, for this little sod's behaviour.

1) why has this gone to the bailiffs without any reminder from the court?

2) can a youth who the court told to pay the money out of his pocket money, be held liable?or his appropriate adult liable?

3) Should we not have got some letter before baliffs visited?

4) will we have to pay this full amount for a public disorder offence that a out of control 15 committed?

I would appriciate any advice or supprt anyone can give.......

my son has turned into the child from hell - no matter what we do he thinks he is invincable and can do what he wants, I regularly pay his fines for not paying his fares on the trains, despite me ensuring he has the money to buy his ticket and have paid all the buggers fines to date.

I wish they would bring back National Service or I would not be punised for beating him a ince of his life, but there we go.

Please if yoy can help me and my mum......... thanks

[tottys]

My prat of a son swore at a police officer and got taken to court and fined £20 - my elderly mum attended court ( I had to go to work) with the little sod and her details were taken by the court re the fine. She lost the information re the fine and becuase I am trying to keep the prat out of prison and me out of custody ( I want to tan his arse), we forgot about the fine. This fine should have been paid by 23/3/09. I wasn't that worried as I though the court would write to me, not my mum and remind me to pay, but they did not write to either of us.

My mum was away in April - has written confirmation she was not in England, and today on her return there are 2 notes from MARSTON, dated 17/4 and 23/4, saying they visited her home and will remove her goods.

On the first note it lists the following: PCN/FINES £46,ADMIN FEE £50, ATTENDANCE COSTS, £175, = 271.

Can someone advise on the following please, as neither one of us have got £30, let alone £271, for this little sod's behaviour.

1) why has this gone to the bailiffs without any reminder from the court?

2) can a youth who the court told to pay the money out of his pocket money, be held liable?or his appropriate adult liable?

3) Should we not have got some letter before baliffs visited?

4) will we have to pay this full amount for a public disorder offence that a out of control 15 committed?

I would appriciate any advice or supprt anyone can give.......

my son has turned into the child from hell - no matter what we do he thinks he is invincable and can do what he wants, I regularly pay his fines for not paying his fares on the trains, despite me ensuring he has the money to buy his ticket and have paid all the buggers fines to date.

I wish they would bring back National Service or I would not be punised for beating him a ince of his life, but there we go.

Please if yoy can help me and my mum......... thanks

i total agree with you with bringing back national service i have three little terrors to lol

and most of the time nothing a good smack on the bum wouldn't cure god i would have been caned when i was little if i done anything wrong..

as for the bailiff charges im pretty sure they are all the same £24.50 for first visit £18 for second visit £10 for walking poss unless they remove goods they can not charge van fees there is lots of info on here with regards to their charges also i would do a search on the web put in what ca a bailiff charge for there will be lots of options to choose from personally i would make your son pay out of his pocket money for the fine lol.....

have you thought about one of those boot camps for your son if he is really bad best of luck what is the bailiff comp called do a search on them make sure they are registered on the public reg

hope all goes well for you

[sillygirl1]

I would contact the court directly and pay the fine to them, then put in a complaint about Marstons overcharging and copy the court in on the letter - the more the courts hear about these morons the more they will have to do something about the overcharging.

 

Other people will be along soon with more advice and help.

[vegus]

Thanks for reading. I am scared that the court will not accept the £20 from me know and will say the bailiffs are dealing with it. Also as I understand they can use locksmiths to get into my mums home.

Please if anyone has advice about timescales, reminder letters from court (do they exsist??) etc I would be very gratefull.

I don't give my boy pocket money, cos he will buy fags and alcohol - not at my flipping expense.

Also if anyone aware of boot camp in England pass on details, cos he will definatley go, I would re morgage my house to pay.

Most pressing advice re baiiffs please.

Cheers!

[hallowitch]

A friend's son was fined by local Magistrates last year but he did not pay..

The Bailiff left a note giving the total amount due, and the figures did not match those from the magistrate's court. I did a Subject access request for a breakdown of fees.

I telephoned our family solicitor for comment and he suggested the debtor pay the fine only. The debtor has no obligation, contractually or legislatively, to pay bailiffs fees with court fines, or with any un-legislated bailiff’s fees unless, a) a voluntary agreement with the debtor is made or, b) a court orders the debtor to pay a specified amount to the bailiff for his fee.

The court has a contract with the bailiff company but this is between the court and the bailiff company for which the debtor is not a named party. The court has made no order against the debtor to pay the bailiffs costs and there is no legislation on the statute book prescribing bailiff fees for collecting unpaid court fines.

Under Section 2 of the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971 the bailiff’s fees were refunded along with my solicitor's consultation fee.

It is understood any unlegislated bailiff's fees are unenforceable, the bailiff must agree his costs with the debtor

pinched this from one of HAPPY CONTRAILS posts hope it helps with the bailiffs fees

[vegus]

Thanks - what is a subject access request?

Should i pay the bailiff the £20 fine (which he has as £46) or try to pay the court.

Thanks for reading and responding

[hallowitch]

subject access request is what you send if you want all the info the bailiff has on you about your fined charges added e.c.t. it costs £10

however tomtubby (who is**** hot on bailiffs) always recommends you ask for a screen shot of your account this give you the info you need about there charges and costs nothing i would phone the court and ask if there bailiffs costs added to the fine

I'm not to sure about this but if you got a reference number for the fined cant you pay it on line

[vegus]

this has esculated becuase my mum lost the bit of paper given to her, with the reference number on it, otherwise I would have paid this before.

She was not sent a fine notice letter or a reminder from court or Marstons bailiffs. The fine should have been paid by 28/3.

Any ideas on how I can get tomtubby's advice?? since registering, I understand she is the business!!!!

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Vegus,

 

On to practicalities

 

1. Beat the crap out of your son and make sure that you have loads of witnesses proving you were out of the country at the time.

2. Repeat 1

3. DO NOT LET THE BAILIFFS IN - have a large box of tissues on hand as, from my experience, Marstons are C$%%. I am owed £1500 and have judgement and Marstons are unable to collect.

4. Do not worry about the locksmith threat as they are not permitted to break in unless they have previously been able to gain peaceable entry and levy.

5. Do not sign anything.

6. Repeat 1 for good measure.

 

GK

[vegus]

Gamekeeper, you are someone who gets my respect... I so want to beat the crap out of this boy, but know I will get arrested and charged.... and be a scedule one offender - society lets these little buggers get away with everything and the parents can't do anything, but are still accountable for everything they do.... becuase they are given the power by law and the government.... I am planning to highjack him when he is 16 and get witnesses to say I was elsewhere.... But I still have to worry about the baliffs at my mums...she is 66 and wanted to help....it my fault and I need help.....

[hallowitch]

hang in there vequs there are some really clever people on here that will help when they come on and see your post

i feel relay sorry for any parent of teenagers in this day & age your damed if you do and damed if if you don't

[vegus]

damm right about that....a year ago I had a considerate, trustworthy, loving child in my house, now he steals, lies and has no respect for authority....Cos he thinks he can get income suuport and a hostel when 16. I have never claimed benefits......what lead is he following???? he thinks this is nothing, even though he knows garn is on a pension, sick and the trouble is coming to her......please help. I don't want to digress off the issue......but I do want to tan his arse......

[hallowitch]

daft question but have you looked on the letters from the bailiff to see if theres a court reference number

[vegus]

there is a reference number, but not sure if it is from the courts... I was thinking of going to go to court with this number and trying to pay the fine automaticallty.... what do people think??????

Serioulsy I am despreate, cos its all in my mums name and she is old and will open her door to anyone, even though I have told her not to....

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Vegus,

 

Even if she opens the door they can't levy on her stuff.

 

It might be worth modifying the following and printing it for your mum to hand over should someone turn up.

 

I would add that the person fined was 15 years old and does not and never has lived at that address.

 

”Please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance.

Yours faithfully/sincerely,"

 

Whether it will work or not I have no idea. Someone will come along and let us know.

 

GK

[ashmk]

Kick the little sh*t out when he is 16. Thats what we told my partners son.

pack his stuff and be out on his 16th birthday. And believe me I would make sure he was out on his birthday and he knows it.

 

Hes turning into an ok lad now.

[andie_303]

Ring the court (or go down in person if you can) first thing monday and speak to the court clerk - they should be able to find the fine etc from giving your sons details and the date the case was heard.

 

Pay the £20 fine and then tell Marstons to go f**k themselves - there is absolutely no legal basis for their charges.

 

Then hand them your written complaint including a copy of the inflated charges letter and ask them for a written response to your complaint.

[vegus]

Thanks eveyone....I will go to the court tomorrow.

I spoke to another parent whoose child also got a fine, but the fine was in his name cos he had just turned 16 years old. when he didn't pay the court wrote to him asking for payment.

It's so bloody unfair that when they are under 16 and you need to give your name as a appropriate adult, that everyting comes back to you. If he was 16, the court would be harassing him for the money, not my mum. Bring back the stocks!!!! Sod human rights, what about mine???

[Guest Happy Contrails]

My prat of a son swore at a police officer and got taken to court and fined £20

 

What did the police charge him with - verbally abusing a police officer?

 

Airline staff are sworn at every day by passengers. Your son can contend the police officer has made a vexatious arrest and make a claim for damages addressed against the force's chief police officer.

 

 

On the first note it lists the following: PCN/FINES £46,ADMIN FEE £50, ATTENDANCE COSTS, £175, = 271.

 

Has a court ordered these fees to be paid as part of a fine?

 

If not then your son is not liable for any of these fees. Bailiffs fees are a matter been the court and its bailiffs. The law can be either be Section 92 of the Courts Act 2003 or the Magistrates Courts (Civilian Enforcement Officers) Rules 1990, but this only enables a fee agreement to be made between the court and the bailiff. That agreement is not binding on the defendant unless the court orders the defendant to pay and gives the defendant an opportunity to defend it. Ask the court for a copy of the order saying how much bailiffs fees your son must pay, but if the court cannot produce it then your son has no legal obligation to pay bailiffs fees. He can also exclude himself from paying a bailiff under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971.

 

Your mum is not liable for the fine and a bailiff cannot use her goods as collateral. He commits an offence if he attempts to do so.

[vegus]

He was taken to court for section 5, public order offence...police officer was goading him, calling him fat etc and he called the police a c%%t.

He was seen by youth court. My mum was his appropriate adult and would have paid on the day as it was only £20, but could not work out the automated payment machine.

The bailiffs are chasing her for the money, even though she did not commit the offence.

I will ask court for info on court order and try to pay the original fine.

You say she is not liable? is this the case as the bailiffs are chasing her at her adress, not my son or me, at our address. Please advise.

The baliff's haven't even got the fine amount correct, they say it si $46, when it was £20

[felicity2009]

It sounds to me like he was not guilty in the first place. Any police officer behaving like that could not possibly have been distressed by being told what he is. Was he pressurised into 'pleading guilty to get it over with'?

 

If hes the sort of rebel who just likes being a pain, tell him from me he can make a far bigger pain of himself if he reads law books

[vegus]

Guilty or not, he should know better and at the end of this all my mum is being held accounable for £217.

Its amazing that as a parent I can't verbally abuse my child as this is emotional abuse, can't hit him as phsycial abuse, but police can do both......and then arrest me and refer to social services if I don't tow their line......Life is a beach.......

Please advise about my mum being liable.......

[felicity2009]

(3) It is a defence for the accused to prove—

(a) that he had no reason to believe that there was any person within hearing or sight who was likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress, or

(b) that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or

© that his conduct was reasonable.

 

 

If you make the wrongful conviction go away, so will the bailiffs, and this will avoid those tricky liability issues. A police officer behaving this way cannot possible be distressed when he gets what he gives, and your son's behaviour was reasonable. If anyone saw the incident, they need to swear in a statement - perhaps at this late stage because they 'have only just been located'. Then use whatever appeal proceedures there are. It should be the state paying *you* for this, not the other way round. The law is there as a boundary. You can't prosecute someone for being close to the boundary, they have to cross it otherwise there is no point having laws in the first place.

 

If the speed limit in an area is 40 mph, you can't be prosecuted for going 20.

Edited April 26, 2009 by felicity2009

[vegus]

Thanks felicity2009 - but the deed is done.

In my view the police have been given so much power - swear and you are arrested and they go for prosecution when it is a easy win for them - this helps their crime figures as they can quote how much crime or convictions they have secured. Despite me telling the little sod this, he still plays into their system.....unfortunatley my son is known to them so if he farts they will prosecute....hense me wanting to beat the sh%t out of him......

[felicity2009]

I edited my message above to include more information.

 

A miscarriage of justice can generally be undone.

 

I was serious about the law books, BTW. Does your son read at all? He needs to know how to defend himself from this kind of thing. I know whereof I speak. I had about 20 years where the police were always after me for something or other because I lived in a part of town where they assume everyone is a criminal. Plus I like to thump sex pests instead of running away. Police like to charge the winner. Which is always me.

 

The police were a bigger problem than the sex pests. If they don't get you, they try even harder next time. They make stuff up and they get personally offended if you know the law. I've had judges seriously tear into these 'people'.

 

In the end, it gets to be fun. Your day in court. The opposition always assume you will plead guilty - then when they have to explain themselves - ooh how things change!

 

Another precaution I have taken these days is to get myself a pair of recording sunglasses. You can get them off a well-known auction site. They record sound and vision through a pinhole camera. This means I no longer have to prove what happened or beg for CCTV footage.

 

If your son is under sustained attack by the local plod, I suggest he gets a pair. If he'd had a set when the police officer started abusing him, things would be a whole lot different right now.

Edited April 26, 2009 by felicity2009