Mackenzie Hall. Do any of you know of them?

[PaulW922]

There is established law regarding the use of tape recorded phone conversations in court - it is not permissible for a third party to record your calls (that would be interception of communications and can only take place with a warrant issued by a secretary of state - probably not going to happen here ;-). The calls can be taped if one party gives consent and as a party to the call the DCA can give that consent (obviously), as could you or I.

 

There is also the basic principal that what you say on the phone is just as admissible as what you say in writing - effectively if you don't mean what you say, then you shouldn't say it regardless of whether the conversation is taped or not.

 

I am also fo the understanding, but prepared to be told I am wrong - that a taped call at a DCA (for example) can be accessed by the other party under a basic Data Protection Act request. Hoe you would stand if they denied having the call recorded I don't know.

[Hippy-chick]

Hi Paul

 

Can you point us to the "established law"?

 

Interested.

[ODC]

- we can't let ODC draw us into fights :D

CROSS

 

LOL I will keep my fights to my friends from Leeds;)

[Hippy-chick]

Quite right, ODC - save your ammunition for the bad guys!

[ODC]

Its not ammunition I need as they supply all the ammunition I need. What I really want is a thermo nuclear device. I have checked ebay but was beaten by some Iranian guy

[Hippy-chick]

See, ODC - I think you ARE a thermo nuclear device! No, you're more than that!

 

[PaulW922]

There is a lot of case law but this covers more than anything else interception of calls by the Government etc (phone taps).

 

Under the Lawful Business Use regulations a company can record its calls to you without your consent for specified purposes. This includes confirming a business transaction. They cannot usually record calls that will then be handed over to a third party.

 

However what we are talking about here, in effect, is you saying something to them or vice versa, and then that call recording being used in some kind of proceedings (whether a county court claim or complaint to a regulator) to back up what has already been asserted. The recording would probably only be used if there was a dispute between parties as to what was actually said anyway.

 

So just because a firm has not told you it has recorded its call with you, I do not think that could in itself be used as grounds not to include it in legal proceedings, where it shows that what the DCA alleges to have been said was indeed said.

 

This does not apply to you or me as private individuals recording our calls with them as we are not using calls for business purposes.

 

There is something that I think people do not always consider here on the CAG forum- in the County Court the District Judge is master of his own domain. No matter what is technically right, in the County Court more than anywhere else I beleive the Judge will expect everyone to act reasonably. If you say 'X' and the DCA says 'Y' and there is a tape to prove 'Y' I am sure that 99 Judges out of 100 would allow it to be used. Equally if you have been paying a debt at £x per month for the last two years and then pay your £1 fee for a copy of the credit agreement, as you have previously acknowledged the debt, explicitly or by inference, I think it unlikely that failure to supply a copy of the agreement will mean that a case against you will be thrown out. You would need something more. (I was pressured into paying, I thought it was for something else) There are some examples on here of people getting orders against them which they did not think would ever happen.

 

What this was all about of course is whether you can record your calls with Mackenzie Hall. The answer is yes you can, and no you don't have to tell them.

[PI Guy]

There is a lot of case law but this covers more than anything else interception of calls by the Government etc (phone taps).

 

Under the Lawful Business Use regulations a company can record its calls to you without your consent for specified purposes. This includes confirming a business transaction. They cannot usually record calls that will then be handed over to a third party.

 

However what we are talking about here, in effect, is you saying something to them or vice versa, and then that call recording being used in some kind of proceedings (whether a county court claim or complaint to a regulator) to back up what has already been asserted. The recording would probably only be used if there was a dispute between parties as to what was actually said anyway.

 

So just because a firm has not told you it has recorded its call with you, I do not think that could in itself be used as grounds not to include it in legal proceedings, where it shows that what the DCA alleges to have been said was indeed said.

 

This does not apply to you or me as private individuals recording our calls with them as we are not using calls for business purposes.

 

There is something that I think people do not always consider here on the CAG forum- in the County Court the District Judge is master of his own domain. No matter what is technically right, in the County Court more than anywhere else I beleive the Judge will expect everyone to act reasonably. If you say 'X' and the DCA says 'Y' and there is a tape to prove 'Y' I am sure that 99 Judges out of 100 would allow it to be used. Equally if you have been paying a debt at £x per month for the last two years and then pay your £1 fee for a copy of the credit agreement, as you have previously acknowledged the debt, explicitly or by inference, I think it unlikely that failure to supply a copy of the agreement will mean that a case against you will be thrown out. You would need something more. (I was pressured into paying, I thought it was for something else) There are some examples on here of people getting orders against them which they did not think would ever happen.

 

What this was all about of course is whether you can record your calls with Mackenzie Hall. The answer is yes you can, and no you don't have to tell them.

I agree with PaulW922 here. I constantly record calls and I install recording devices for my clients with their permission in their own homes, also CCTV and GPS trackers etc and as long as one of the parties are a participant in the conversation then there is no law to prevent it. RIPA, HRA do not apply to an individual only to a public authority.

 

Also a judge acting in a criminal case may not accept the evidence but under a civil case then they tend to accept whatever will lead them to the truth.

[loonytune]

hi hippy chick just to keep u informed about muppet hall got phone call off them at work today i asked him why was he ringing me when i stated any contact by letter only which id informed them when i changed my address his answer was we have not had a change of address told him thats very strange since ive had a reply from you in writing at my new address he put the phone down

[The GodMother]

Well thats a new one. I am glad there levels of muppetness has gone down a notch.

 

Maybe you will now be told you have not had a letter from them:D

[Hippy-chick]

hi hippy chick just to keep u informed about muppet hall got phone call off them at work today i asked him why was he ringing me when i stated any contact by letter only which id informed them when i changed my address his answer was we have not had a change of address told him thats very strange since ive had a reply from you in writing at my new address he put the phone down

 

Result, loonytune.

 

[loonytune]

hi hippy chick just some advice off u when mh contacted me 2 weeks ago at work why would they phone me because 5 weeks prevous to that when they rang me there last words to me was we are taking legal action against you so why would they want to contact me direct when they threatened me legal action???

[The GodMother]

cause they are idiots and dont know there head from there butt

[loonytune]

thanks for that godmother so how can they get money off u for the so called debt they say u owe when they dont take legal action i also asked them for a copy of the debt i give them 28 days to reply 29 days later no reply

[The GodMother]

Did u request this copy of the debt in writing?

 

I think if you have not done already that you should CCA the company as they have to provide you with all the details then.

 

If you have asked for a CCA then the next step l would take is a SAR request. If they fail to comply to both of them l would then report them to the OFT and then write to them saying they have X amount of days from the date they sign for the letter to provide you with the requested info than you will be going to the FSO and taking legal action for harrassement.

 

That might make them find there head and butt as they dont want to be taken to court.

 

I think somebody managed to claim compensation of them for harassemsnt ok they had to enforce the agreement but they got the money in the end, Which of course made MH look like a bunch of idiots.

 

Chrissi

[loonytune]

thanks for the very sound advice godmother i did ask for a copy of the debt in writing any dealings between muppet hall and myself has to be in writing as i made it very clear to them when i requested the cca off them

[The GodMother]

gdgd.

 

Just a thought as they have been known to phone ppl all times of the day and night without a care in the world for the law.

 

I would now complain to your local TS and then complain to the OFT. If you want you can send them a letter advising them that you are kindly extending there deadline buy say 10 days and that if they have not got you the paperwork within those 10 days then on day 11 you will be complaining to TS and OFT.

 

Ok this may not scare them but they cant say they did not no the complaint was comming as you would have warned them.

 

One think l would advise is wait for TS to get back to you before you contact the OFT as if theya are anything like my TS then they would stick there head in the sand and say they cant deal with Debt issues and give you the number for the nation debt help line even if you explian the full facts.

 

Chrissi

[sadblackbum]

AAArrrggghhhhh ive been paying these people money for over a year now they keep trying to settle.I still have like 6k to pay can i get out of it its for a debt from 1996.my last payment was in 1996?To the bank.i pay this mob by direct debit every week but have never had any paperwork from them(i feel so daft now,can i still escape their clutches as the debt had been unpaid for around 8 yrs.

[The GodMother]

CCA them. They need the paper work.

 

I would PM curlyben or pt2537 about this more tho.

 

Chrissi

[Dancing_girl]

Hi. My brother actually received a text message from MacKenzie Hall today.

 

It read 'Please contact Lynn at MacKenzie Hall immediately on 01563 556057 quoting reference number xxxxxxxx'

 

After reading this forum and many others i have told him to not phone them under any circumstances. He has assured me he has no debt.

 

Has anyone else received communication from them via text message to a mobile and how would they have got hold of his mobile number?

[ODC]

They can get your phone number from their good buddies in the CRAs. Even when you fill out a warranty for a product some of your personal details find their way on to the computers of the CRAs

[The GodMother]

I am assuming if you dont give other the details then they cant obtain them.

 

So if you dont give out your mobile number they cant get it.

 

Chrissi

[sadblackbum]

They text me repeatedly.Has anyone got their address and phone number? i need to get my ref no from them to send my cca

[ODC]

DO NOT PHONE THEM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES

Send them this

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

Dont worry about a ref number

Their address is

: 30 The Foregate Kilmarnock Ayrshire KA1 1LU

East Ayrshire Trading Standards are well aware of the activities of this crowd

[andrew1]

AAArrrggghhhhh ive been paying these people money for over a year now they keep trying to settle.I still have like 6k to pay can i get out of it its for a debt from 1996.my last payment was in 1996?To the bank.i pay this mob by direct debit every week but have never had any paperwork from them(i feel so daft now,can i still escape their clutches as the debt had been unpaid for around 8 yrs.

 

Hi, can you be more specific about what and who and when you last paid?

 

You say you have been paying over a year now, but then go on to say the debt has not been paid for 8 yrs.

 

To be statute barred a payment must not have been made within 6 yrs. If one payment has been made during that time, even yesterday, the 6 yr clock goes back and starts all over again.

 

 

Sarah