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Does a Termination Notice HAVE to be issued after DN


joemay
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If the DCA is just collecting on behalf of the creditor...no.

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They'd have to close it in order to sell it. ;)

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What should happen is.. a Default notice giving you 14 clear days with allowance for posting should be sent. This should detail the clause you have breached, and what is required to remedy that breach. Ie pay £ X amount before a certain date (the 14 clear days). The Notice should reflect the correct balance minus any default fees ie charges/late payment fees.

 

There is a required format for the Notice which if not followed could make it invalid.

 

The Termination Notice is issued AFTER the remedy date identified on the Default Notice. If it is issued before the remedy date on the DN then that could cause a problem for the company.

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What should happen is.. a Default notice giving you 14 clear days with allowance for posting should be sent. This should detail the clause you have breached, and what is required to remedy that breach. Ie pay £ X amount before a certain date (the 14 clear days). The Notice should reflect the correct balance minus any default fees ie charges/late payment fees.

 

There is a required format for the Notice which if not followed could make it invalid.

 

The Termination Notice is issued AFTER the remedy date identified on the Default Notice. If it is issued before the remedy date on the DN then that could cause a problem for the company.

 

I had the default notices years ago, but no termination notices. Have the commited any offence by selling the account without issuing a termination notice?

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I had the default notices years ago, but no termination notices. Have the commited any offence by selling the account without issuing a termination notice?

They haven't commited an offence, what normally happens is that they make a DN invalid because if the DN doesn't give enough time to remedy & then they serve the Termination Notice, the creditor cannot claim the full amount of the debt, they can only claim the arrears up and until the date of the DN.

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Mmm, very interesting. I have had 3 CC accounts sold, never received no termination notices though.

 

Sorry to but in on your post Joemay

 

No don't be sorry your not butting in. Seems to be a question popping up in a lot of threads so I thought I'd open a new one for all;)

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They haven't commited an offence, what normally happens is that they make a DN invalid because if the DN doesn't give enough time to remedy & then they serve the Termination Notice, the creditor cannot claim the full amount of the debt, they can only claim the arrears up and until the date of the DN.

 

If they haven't sent a TN (therefore don't have in writing what date they terminated), haven't given enough time to remedy and they have sold the debt, do we take it that the date the DCA states that they were assigned the debt is the date the agreement would have been terminated?

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do we take it that the date the DCA states that they were assigned the debt is the date the agreement would have been terminated?

I would assume so because in order for them to sell the debt claim & tax relief the a/c would have to be closed.

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So my understanding is, correct me if I'm wrong, they are now only entitled to chase the amount on the DN (arears) is that right?

 

Does anyone know if the assignment date stated on a NOA is generally the date that would be on the deed of assignment?

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No... not unless there is a fault in the DN and then they issue a termination notice.

 

They might not have terminated yet & have just instructed the DCA to collect on their behalf.

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What should happen is.. a Default notice giving you 14 clear days with allowance for posting should be sent. This should detail the clause you have breached, and what is required to remedy that breach. Ie pay £ X amount before a certain date (the 14 clear days). The Notice should reflect the correct balance minus any default fees ie charges/late payment fees.

 

There is a required format for the Notice which if not followed could make it invalid.

 

The Termination Notice is issued AFTER the remedy date identified on the Default Notice. If it is issued before the remedy date on the DN then that could cause a problem for the company.

 

So a Default Notice date 02 March 07 with Payment to be made by 16 March 07. would be ok then. this was the date it was printed, not the date I recieved it, that was 2 days later on the 04 March 07

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No, that's not ok - there's no time included for service.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Hi Alfwithhair -No its faulty:D 2/4/07 was a friday, they have to give 2 days (if 1st class) for postage, that's 2 working days so count from 5/3/07, therefore remedy date 19/3/07;)

 

Did you keep the envelope the DN was in, if it's 2nd class postage then they have to allow 4 days:)

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phew wish i could type that fast

 

2. Practice Direction

 

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail

 

"With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

 

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

 

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

 

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

 

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

 

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

 

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8 March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

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Cheers guys,

Unfortunately I haven't got the envelope it came in, but I remember it was one one them with no date of posting on it, so didn't keep it.

 

I am going to post this default notice up later as I would like to see if anyone can find anything else wrong with it.

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Ok then, as promised here's what they sent.

Quick brief on the account.

It has not been sold and is not in the hands of any DCA, MINT are accepting reduced payments, reveiwed every 6 months. But want to know if what they have sent is valid, should there become a time when MINT get arsey. No CCA request has been requested.

 

Right on to it. On Monday 5th March 07, I received two envelopes from MINT. In the first was this;

mintdefault1.jpg

 

In the second envelope was this;

mintdefault2.jpg

mintdefault3.jpg

 

After reading the comment posted earlier I though I would post the full documents to see if anybody could find anything else wrong with what they have sent.

 

Then on Wednesday 4th April 2007, two more envelopes

First containing this;

minttermination1.jpg

minttermination2.jpg

and the second this;

minttermination3.jpg

 

Now there are a few questions I would like to ask about these documents.

First of course, is this default notice valid (the amount claimed also includes penalty charges)

 

Secondly; By terminating the account after sending this default (if it is invalid) have they screwed up their chances of recovering the balance

 

Thirdly; Can they charge interest after they have terminated the aggreement? as if you look at their letter of 3rd April, it says the interest will be waived 28 day from the termination? If you look at the balance on the DN they have increased it by nearly £100 on the termination notice

 

And finally anything else you good people of CAG can come up with that is wrong. LOL

 

Thanks for the help

Much appreciated as always.

Alf

Edited by alfwithhair
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The default notice is invalid because they have not given you a clear 14 days to remedy the default. they have not allowed 2 days for postal service.

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The default notice is invalid because they have not given you a clear 14 days to remedy the default. they have not allowed 2 days for postal service.

 

Right, is there anything else that appears to be incorrectly laid out?

So if it is invalid I presume the default they have placed on my CRA file is invalid also?

 

If the default is invalid, does that mean they have issued a termination notice without a vaild default, so cannot collect more than the arrears

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A Default Notice from what I understand must pass the requirements of section 88 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and the period of 14 days is an express requirement of section 88(2).

Also without section 87 in their back pocket they cannot demand the early repayment of a sum that was due after Termination.

But, provided they have a compliant and properly executed Agreement they would only be able to claim for any sum that was due before and up to the date of Termination, such as any valid Arrears.

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