please help,investigating benifit fraud of income support,council tax and housing benefit

[georgie09]

hello and i hope you can help us. we were called in for an interview yesterday on suspition of fruad of income support,housing benefit and council tax.

my parner was in the army for many years but due to a very bad accident while serving he had a bad accident and was medically discharged,this was back in 93".

He was given army pension which comes direct from them,which was aprox £70 a month,although over the years with inflation it is now around £200.

after he was out for about a year a woman called from the war pensions and explained to him he was entitled to a goverment war pension. as his condition got worse over the years they have medically reviewed him and is now classed as 60% dissabled.

we were always told over the years that the money direct from the army had nothing to do with any benifits we had at all and were told we didn`t have to declare it. all this was told to us many times by different departments but it was never put down in writing stating it.

now it seems that they are going to go to town on us saying we were not entitled to any benifits what so ever.

we have 2 kids to support and rent and bills to pay,i don`t know how we are going to manage.

it`s as if we`re being penilized for serving your country and having a war pension and this is how you get treated.

we are so worried,this is what we have always been told about the army money and now i find out they have lied to me and we`re the ones in all the trouble.

has anyone beeen in this kind of situation. we`ve never been in trouble before and we are very scarred,i keep thinking they will send my partner to jail over being missinformed.

sorry this is a bit all over the place i just tried to get it all down out of my head and know i`ve probably got loads of spelling mistakes.

please help if you can,we`re at a loss as to what we can do

[lenny100]

You have been isinformed although the war pension is not taken into account (or sound not be) YOU MUST INFORM EVERBODY YOU ARE RECEVING IT AND MAKE SURE THIS IS RECORDED IN ALL YOUR RECORDS, I was in a simmler situation but i found somebody at my local councal office welfare department who helped me sort it out and she told me this fact. I was intervwied at the time but due to her help the situation was sorted out, and infact it was found that i had been underpayed, not overpayed but this was only backdated 1 year not the six i was owed!!!!!!

See if your local concial has a benifits team and contact them for help asap

also contact the vetrain office in your area and tell them what is going on, they may be helpfull in explaning the rules to the benifts office as many of the people working there do not know the rules.

SAFFA and ther british legion could also help but you need to contact them all asap.

Edited April 23, 2009 by lenny100
more info

[georgie09]

hello and thanks for the help,i hope it all works out like your situation. the war pension was always put down as it is classed as a benifit.the army pension had nothing to do with the dwp as it never had anything to do with them and came straight from the postmaster from the army itself. we never put it down as we were told by numerous departments in the dwp it had nothing to do with them,we so wish now we had that statement in writing! this is the only reason it was never put in on any forms we had to fill in.

we don`t know whether we are comming or going and what the outcome will be,we just have to wait on them now. how long can they look back in to all your records and bank accounts and things like that,is there a kind of cut off period up to a certain amount of years?

thankyou all.

[lenny100]

sorry but the goverment has no cut off date they can look back as far as they wish to.

[georgie09]

thankyou,ithought that might be the case. so the dpw that miss-informed us of all this in the first place,is now wanting all their money back and as it`s their fault for telling us the same thing on numerous occations, we feel they may make an example of us by covering their backs,what are we to do,it`s our word against theirs!

we`ll have to just wait and see what happens!

[ErikaPNP]

In the forms you completed, can you recall if anywhere on the form it asked if an army pension (or any other pension, occupational or otherwise) was in payment? If so, did you mention it?

 

Did it ask for details of "all other income"? Again, if so, did you mention it?

 

When you submitted your financial records to the Jobcentre, was it documented anywhere? For example, on your bank statements? Husbands P60?

 

You don't only need to think about what you actually declared, but any documents you gave to them where it would show up. Because if it was on any of those documents and they missed it, then you could argue that the error was on their part. It's a tough argument but it can be effective, and has in the past been effective.

 

Similarly, DLA is not taken into account when assessing housing benefit but it still has to be declared. Some disability related benefits can actually result in more money being paid as a "disability premium".

 

Where were you told that you didn't have to declare it? In person? On the telephone?

 

I'd submit also an SAR (subject access request) this is where you ask them to supply all information they hold on you, computerised records and clerical records. They have 40 days to comply with such a request.

 

The reason I am asking all these questions is because these are questions you need to ask yourself. You see, just because it was never placed in writing to you, that does not mean that they do not have it written somewhere that you declared it. I mean, you did declare it, didn't you? You told them you received it and their reply was that it was something you did not need to officially declare.

 

I say this because I have seen (very occasional) cases where similar has occured. A person verbally being told that a specific income declaration is not neccessary, therefore they don't declare it on a form, only to later be accused of "not declaring income" and when an SAR turns up, it is recorded in the claimant's notes something along the lines of "Telephone call/visit from claimant. Claimant informed husband in reciept of DLA, advised claimant not necessary to declare this for purposes of XXX Benefit", or it is shown on a bank statement the claimant submitted for the purposes of their claim, but was overlooked - a little tiny miniscule thing like this can throw their case up in the air.

[georgie09]

hello and thanks for the information,we will submit a subject access report and see what`s on it.

we feel very very stupid as we never declaired it in writing on the forms as we were told before hand it was irrelevant.

very silly misstake to make on our part i know. to make matters worse we has a conversion on the house 3 months ago,a dissabled wet room was modified in the bathroom and a stair lift fitted,which we didn`t have to pay for as we were on benefits,which we got a grant for from our local council which my parters occupational therapist set up for us.it came to around £12,000. we were only thinking about this last night and remembered.what is going to happen over that!

such a stupid mistake on our part can cost us having the book thrown at us and even jail,i hope we hear soon from them as i can`t eat or sleep since this has happened.

[Bazooka Boo]

we feel very very stupid

Don't, how are we meant to know what we are entitled to if we have never been told, or have never had the need to claim benefit?

 

to make matters worse we had a conversion on the house 3 months ago,a disabled wet room was modified in the bathroom which we got a grant for from our local council it came to around £12,000.

Take a look on the DirectGov web site. You can apply for a grant for adaptations if you, or someone in the household is disabled. And as this was only done within the last 6 months I'm guessing that the OT would have had to of applied on your OH behalf, I am pretty confident that she would have filled in all the necessary boxes and asked you both all the right questions. As it is, the maximum you are able to claim for adaptations to your home is 30K, did you have to pay a contribution toward the cost?

The amount paid is usually based on a financial assessment - a 'means test' - of your average weekly income in relation to your outgoings.

Means testing will take into account savings above a certain limit. Certain benefits including Disability Living Allowance and Income Support are generally ignored.

If you have a partner, your combined income will be assessed jointly. Capital is included in the means test. The first £6,000 of savings is disregarded.

A range of premiums and allowances is used for all essential outgoings, for example, rent/mortgage and personal expenditure. Actual outgoings are not taken into consideration.

Depending on the outcome of this assessment the amount of financial assistance offered can vary from 0 to 100 per cent of the cost.

 

The award works as follows:

 

• if your income is less than your assessed needs you will not normally need to contribute to the cost of the works
  
• if your income is more than your assessed needs, a proportion of your income will be used to calculate how much you could contribute towards the cost of the works
  
• if this assessed amount is less than the cost of the works, the difference between the two is paid as a Disabled Facilities Grant
  

All of the above is on the Direct Gov web site.

 

 

 

i hope we hear soon from them as i can`t eat or sleep since this has happened.

Well stop worrying, it will all come out in the wash, it is a very confusing draconian system designed to trip people up, I too am ex services, and when I was MD'd I applied for Incapacity benefit, housing and council tax benefit etc etc, and yes the DWP tried to tell me that I hadn't declared my service pension, when it came to the 11th hour and was being looked at by an independent authority, it was found that on my initial claim form I had in fact told them that I would be in receipt of a service pension, but at that time I was not aware of how much as Glasgow hadn't sent the paperwork with the figures on. And in the light of that evidence they wrote off the overpayment

And they have tried it since:evil: but it has only ever worked in my favour and given me a greater understanding and knowledge of what it is they are trying to ask8)

 

i don`t know how we are going to manage.

it`s as if we`re being penalized for serving your country and having a war pension and this is how you get treated.

The Veterans agency, they will be able to send out a welfare officer who will be worth their weight in gold, really truly my welfare officer is bloody fantastic:-D

And don't even get me started on how this lousy self elected government treats it veterans:evil:

Because I spent 18 years serving Queen and Country in their time of need, now, in my time of need this Government sees fit to turn it's back on me:evil:

I don't qualify for DLA, I don't qualify for Full council tax benefit, and I don't qualify for Full housing benefit Why:-? Because I served for 18 years, however if I were 18 years old with 3 kids by different fathers, I would have my Rent paid for, my council tax paid for, and the government would even give me money on the premise I was looking for a job, and I would never have had to lift a finger to get it:evil:

Ok Rant over, I'm off to kick the cat:-D

Let us know how you get on, but I highly recommend getting in touch with the Veterans agency, also have you thought about trying to get in touch with his old unit? Or not his unit as such but for the likes of me we have the RA Association, who can offer financial help and advice, although the Vets agency will no doubt go down this route anyway. Good luck, forget about jail or anything of that notion, as it clearly is not fraud, just a misunderstanding.

[surprise]

I would phone your local Welfare Rights Office details on your Local Authority Website, always very helpful and with their input it may make things easier for you. I'm not sure how they work in other areas but in my area they do come out to visit by appointment.

[georgie09]

thankyou for all your replies,we feel we`re not alone and all the help is so much apreciated.

well now the fun begins,they have stopped all our income support,housing benefit and council tax benifit.

we can`t aford to go in to debt with our normal bills and d/d in the bank on top of all that the dwp may charge us,so working it all out leaves us with £20 a week to live on for a family of 4,and this could take months!

we don`t want to fall behind with the rent as at least with that being paid we have a roof over our heads and they can`t evict us!

we could go through the veterans agency and claim exta for partner and children, as we are no longer in receipt of any social benifits.there were a few thing we could claim due to dissability and never being able to work again but because of being on income support it would have overlaped the amount of money and knocked all the benifits off and we were advised not to claim them by the dwp. but we don`t know what to do,wait a a few months and see how big the book is that they`re going to throw at us and try to survive on what we have or contact them now,we just don`t know what to do.

thanks for all your time to read all this and post your replies,we just don`t know who else to ask at the moment.

[Bazooka Boo]

Please, Ring the Veterans Agency. I assure you that they will sort it out within a week if not sooner. I know it's hard to ask for help considering previous employment, but really truly, Government departments are aware that ex services are unaware and afraid to ask for help so exploit it.

The Vets agency are all to aware of exactly what you will be entitled to, and they will do all the leg work for you, they will even get in touch with the Royal British Legion (RBL) and they in turn will be able to represent you both in the case of the benefits overpayment. It really is just one phone call away,Free Veterans Helpline Freephone 0800 169 22 77 (UK only) [email protected]

Please use the following guidelines if you prefer to contact us by letter: include your

 

• full name
  
• address
  
• postcode
  
• country (if overseas)
  
• daytime telephone number with dialling code
  
• the best time to contact you by telephone during the daytime
  
• the time difference to GMT (if overseas)
  

for letter contact about

 

• War Disablement Pension or allowance
  
• War Widows or Widowers Pension
  
• Armed Forces Compensation Scheme (AFCS) or
  
• FEPOW
  

please give your

 

• National Insurance Number or
  
• reference number
  

for email contact please put the theme of your email in the Subject line,

for example:

 

• War Disablement Pension (WDP)
  
• War Widows or Widowers Pension (WWP)
  
• Armed Forces Compensation Scheme (AFCS)
  
• Service Records
  
• Medals
  
• Service Pension
  
• Veterans Lapel Badge
  
• etc
  

This will help us to answer, or to direct your query to the appropriate area, more quickly.

 

 

Veterans Welfare Service

There are 25 welfare offices located throughout the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. To search for your nearest office, click here, alternatively contact the Veterans Free Helpline.

Please give them a ring, swallow your pride.

[georgie09]

hello all again,

well we got in touch with the veterans agency and are still waiting for a reply from them.it looks like we can claim unemployability supplement as my partner is classed as 60% dissabled and hopefully he can claim for me and the children aswell, so at least we`ll have some money comming in!

we still haven`t had a letter or phone call or anything about this situation since he was called in for the interview so still know absoluteley nothing about what they are doing or what is going to happen to us,they must love making you stressed and worried out of your mind!

now i have received a letter this morning saying i have to attend an interview under caution in 2 weeks for the same situation.

i`ll keep all informed on here what happens.

[Bazooka Boo]

Hello again, it's good to hear that the cog's, however slowly, are beginning to turn.

Whilst the vets agency, who I have found to be invaluable, can't do everything.

But the Royal British Legion (RBL) are an independent organisation, and far removed from the services, with the veterans welfare and best interests at heart. (unlike this lousy corrupt government we haven't elected!)

They will be more likely to be pro active in their response.

[georgie09]

well i`m back again. still nothing,no letters or phone calls fron dwp or the local council so we still haven`t a clue what`s happening! i went for the interveiw under caution with them and was not nervous or scarred at all,they tried to put words in my mouth but i wasn`t having any of it.i was totally truthfull in all i told them and made it clear it was not a fraudulant claim,i answed all their questions and didn`t hold back on anythind as i had nothing at all to hide whatsoever.

the veterans agency have been great and we`re going down the path with them with claiming money. a truely wonderful lady came out to see us last week and told us we were entitled to things we didn`t even know about. she has written one hell of a letter to dwp about our case stating in no uncertain words it was not a fraudulant claim,wow they know how to word things!

she has also asked the royal british legion to look in to it and see what can be done through them.

at least things are now moving in the right direction! we`ve just about managed to keep on top of the bills with the help of our family and are hoping when all is sorted out money wise we can repay the family back all the money that`s been borrowed. now there`s a thought,if we have back payment from the veterans agency will the dwp take it all as part of what we`re supposed to owe them,this is something i`ve just thought of while writting this?

i`ll keep you informed on the situation as soon as we know anymore,

thanks all for you help,you`ve been invaluable.

[Bazooka Boo]

now there`s a thought,if we have back payment from the veterans agency will the dwp take it all as part of what we`re supposed to owe them,this is something i`ve just thought of while writting this?

 

The DWP have got to prove in their favour that you do owe them money first:mad:

 

So I wouldn't worry about them taking any back pay you might get from SPVA.

Besides it wouldn't look to good on the front pages of the press, 'DWP take Veterans Money leaving his family hungry'

[georgie09]

well ,hello to everyone again.

it`s been almost 2 months since we heard anything but we got the unemployabilty supplement at last and it will be backdated to the date of the claim so there`s a bit to come back from them (we can clear most the debts we owe now,great news!)

We also heard from the dwp and council and it seems that we were not entitilled to income support for just over 2 1/2 years. although we didn`t get alot of income support it mounts up to maybe 6-7 thousand.

we still haven`t had a letter to say they want it back or at what rate we can pay or whether the courts will be involved so i guess we`ll have to wait again! both places want 3 years proof of all incommings and outgoings before they decide on anything,that`s going to be a nightmare trying to find all that! can we get the bank to do copy-bank statements for a 3 year period?

we just hope they don`t take the arrears we`re owed from the veterans agency to pay some of the overpayment off though! it doesn`t even cover all our own debts as it is,but most of them!

we just wanted to keep you uptodate on this as your input and help has been so valuable to us as we feel we`re not alone,as soon as i here any more i`ll be back and let you know the outcome,

take care eveyone.

[surprise]

Most banks charge per sheet for copy statements, some £5 per statement. You should ask your bank first and if their charge is extortionate then tell them that you will pay for a subject access request which will cost you £10 and get six years statements. Plus, if there are any charges on there you will claim them back.

[georgie09]

Hello to everyone again,

All has been sorted ( I hope ).We had the backpay and cleared some of the debts we had while waiting for all this to be sorted ,so that was quite a weight off our shoulders!

the dwp worked out we owed just over £8,000,they went back over 5 years instead of the 2 1/2 we thought. They hopefully are not taking us to court though ! they have said they will automatically take a 1/3 of my partners` dla every month( we didn`t think they were allowed to do this ) but we stated we couldn`t afford that much so are having to fill out a form of all incommings and goings.

It seemed the local coucil took all war pensions in to account and did`nt include them when working out housing benifit and council tax so we were always entitled to it,which was fantastic news.We have to attend the local offices for a caution and to be told off about the situation though !

We need to fill in new forms for the council now but are unsure about what will happen now we have the unemployability supplement! We`ve tried to research it on the internet but there is so little infomation about it. We don`t know if it`s classed as a dwp benefit ,or a supplement to your war pension from the veterans agency(which it is really).

Thankyou for all your help,you`ve been so helpful through all of this.

[sillygirl1]

I've been reading this story and it seems that you have found the right help. It really bugs me that the council bods chase people who have fought for Queen and country harder than they chase people who have never worked in their life.

 

I agree completely with Bazooka Boo's comments about young people with multiple parented offspring...

[georgie09]

Hi again to everyone,

Well,now another problem! The money we owe the dwp ( although we still believe we don`t owe them a penny,all their stupid rules,always changing them to suit themselves ! ) they say arond just over £8,000,is now to be deducted out of my partners` dla.I didn`t think they were allowed to do this?They are taking a third of it straight out and we have the rest!

We filled in forms,for all the incommings/ourgoings and it worked out we could aford to pay back £45.00 a month,they want more than double the amount back.We don`t have any other benifits other than my carers allowance and the pension from the veterans agency, and child tax credit .

We are being treated like criminals! They say things like internet and sky t.v are not essential or our mobile phones. We don`t go out,drink or smoke,for god`s sake we got to have something to do! How the hell can they tell us what to spend our money on? My partner is disabled and can`t get out most of the time so he`s either on the computer or watching the t.v.

We have phoned them and they won`t back down,we are going to try again in the morning and get to try to speak with the highest person we can,we not letting this drop.We are so angry now,when you think of all the politicians who bleed the country dry to pay for all their morgages,second homes,and all the stupid things they claim for and they are alredy wealthy as it is,it`s just greed! They`re not asked not to have sky or a computer or phones to pay for all of what they claimed for to pay back !

This is going to be a struggle,what with 2 children aswell but we are at a loss as to what we can do.

Sorry to just go on,but this country needs sorting itself out.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Bazooka Boo]

I'm bloody fuming just reading this:-x

Who is this Local Authority?

[georgie09]

Hi Bazooka Boo,

It`s the DWP,the local coucil have been pretty good,we never owed anything at all as we were always entitled to housing benefit because this council don`t take your pension in to concideration at all.

We thought if you made an offer to pay back over-payments they would accept it,but not in our case!

The kids are 14 and 15 at the moment but give it another couple of years when they`ve left school alot of our money will stop/change,so i don`t know how we`ll manage to pay back almost £100 a month.

It still feels as though we are being made to feel like criminals,we made a genuine miss-take,were told by people in charge of everything we were entitled to and this is what it gets you!

You know what,you can commit murder,get sent to pison,have a room to yourself with a t`v in it ,3 meals a day,all your washing done and be lovely and warm,and if you`re a good boy you can have more "perks" on top and be let out early!!!

And the likes of my partner who served in the army for umpteen years for his country,get injured,had to be medically diss-charged,get told what they can claim for get treated "worse" than criminals!

We are going to try in the morning to get this lowered,even if it takes us 20 years! We`re both only young-ish,it would all still be paid for years before our old-age pensions start!

They are taking it out of his dla a couple of days before xmas,so there`s the food shopping stuffed-up for xmas!

We were thinking of trying the local M.P to see if he could influence the decision?

We`ll see what comes of it all tommorrow but we won`t hold our breath !!

[Bazooka Boo]

What area are you in? PM me with it if you can..

[georgie09]

It won`t let me send you a personal message?

[Bazooka Boo]

Try it now....I've stood the Guard down:D