Threats from DCA but living overseas

[theoldgit]

I am living in Thailand and am receiving letters from a few DCA in the UK threatening court action regarding a number of debts I am temporarily unable to service.

 

I have kept the original holders of the debts informed of my position, even to the extent of keeping them advised of my Thai address.

 

My question is, can a DCA take me to court in the UK when they are fully aware that I live overseas, I don't think a UK Civil Court has jurisdiction in Thailand.

 

I have not done a runner, tempting as it is, but my current circumastances simply mean I cannot pay at the moment.

 

Most the letters arrive at my home in Thailand after their self imposed deadlines.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

[cerberusalert]

Don't worry they're bluffing. In order for them to apply for a CCJ against you, you have to be a resident in the UK.

 

Just tell them to go and swivel because they cannot take any enforcement action whatsoever whilst you are in Thailand.

 

Just one tip though, keep those letters & envelopes they have sent you as proof that they have knowledge of your present address as it is not unknown for some DCAs to try and obtain a CCJ by the 'back door', meaning they serve court papers at the debtors last known UK address knowing that it can't be defended. If that happens, with the evidence you have you could have any such case struck out when you returned to the UK.

[theoldgit]

Thanks for the reply, very helpful, I thought that was the case.

 

Coincidentally I got a letter from Moorcroft today, eventually delivered to my Thai address, posted at UK second class postage rates, containing a demand for full payment a couple of days after posting, and well before I received it. Not sure what game they are playing, but am following your advice I am keeping the envelope as well as the letter.

 

I am concerned that they may down the bankruptcy route even though I am not in the UK. I know I cannot file for bankruptcy whilst overseas, but can a creditor, by using my old address though they know I am overseas but not declaring it to the court?

 

I have kept all involved advised of the reasons for my current inability to pay, and even advised them of my address, so, as tempting as it is, I am not doing a runner.

[cerberusalert]

Even in the unlikely event that they managed to obtain a CCJ or even more rarer a bankruptcy order, you can apply for a reversal or annulment at any time if the CCJ/Bankruptcy order should not have been made, for example because the proper steps involved in obtaining the order were not followed.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Theo,

 

Welcome to CAG.

 

Are you certain that you can't go bankrupt whan you are out of the country?

I only ask because a friend of mine says he was told that he could.

 

GK

[cerberusalert]

You can bankrupt yourself;

Making yourself bankrupt in England if you live abroad

 

If you live in an EU member state, except Denmark, then you will able to declare yourself bankrupt in the country where your main interests are based. If this is the UK then you can apply for bankruptcy there in person at an English or Welsh Court. However, you can only do this within the first three years’ after you have moved abroad. When declaring yourself bankrupt you must present your petition in person or via a solicitor. Should you ask someone to act on your behalf then you will most likely need to grant them power of attorney. [LINK FAILED]

 

For someone else to bankrupt you they have to serve a statutary demand. The completed form must usually be served on the individual in person. The creditor must have proof of service, so it is usual to employ a process server to carry out this function which can only be served in England/Wales.

 

You cannot just complete the petition and present it to the court. Insolvency law requires that: the petition be served on the debtor; and statements of truth are lodged at court verifying the bankruptcy petition and that it has been served on the debtor.

Edited February 24, 2013 by alanfromderby

[dannyboy660]

Are you certain that you can't go bankrupt whan you are out of the country?

 

You have to present yourself in person at the High Court in London within 3 years of leaving the UK.

Leaving being recognised as you have declared non-resident at HMRC through http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/p85.pdf

 

 

Very expensive, complicated, and for unsecured debt (arguably) a bit pointless.

 

Recent EU legislation changed things slightly if you are resident in a memeber state, but in your case you have nothing to worry about.

[theoldgit]

I had a letter forwarded onto me in Thailand from the current occupiers of my old address in the UK, from a firm of "lawyers" stating I owed some money to an outfit called Hillesden Securities, I wrote back informing them that I had been living in Thailand for two years and I had no knowledge of the alleged debt or indeed Hillesden, asking for details of the debt.

 

Today I received a response, addressed to my old address in the UK but forwarded to me here, I suspect some ulterior motive in writing to me old my old address, despite the fact they have been made aware of my current address.

[cerberusalert]

Today I received a response, addressed to my old address in the UK but forwarded to me here, I suspect some ulterior motive in writing to me old my old address, despite the fact they have been made aware of my current address.

Either they can't afford the postage to Thailand because of the downturn in their business or they just think that you were bluffing when you contacted them from there assuming you were on holiday.

[esplou]

Don't worry they're bluffing. In order for them to apply for a CCJ against you, you have to be a resident in the UK.

 

Hi, does anyone know what the case is for spain??? Im guessing it may be different as within the EU.

[cerberusalert]

There are reciprocal agreements between the EU Countries. The following page deals with insolvency EUR-Lex - 32000R1346 - EN

[esplou]

thanks

[theoldgit]

Either they can't afford the postage to Thailand because of the downturn in their business or they just think that you were bluffing when you contacted them from there assuming you were on holiday.

 

Will I be safe ignoring any letters they send to UK in response to those I have sent from Bangkok, my Royal Mail redirection runs out next week anyway as you are only allowed to do it for two years.

[cerberusalert]

Yes, even if they do manage to obtain a CCJ via the back-door you would be able to get it overturned because you have enough documentary evidence to prove that they knew you were not a UK resident.

[theoldgit]

I have just received a letter from an outfit in Hong Kong, they are allegedly acting for one of my creditors in the UK, despite the fact I have advised everyone of my current address, this firm sent it to the address I left some seven months ago, so I have returned it as gone away- I have given the bank my current address, so I'm not running away.

 

I presume they are just chancing their arm, I understand they cannot take me to court until I return to the UK, should they still act under UK law in the meantime, that includes not sending envelopes through the post marked "Final Demand" and Debt Collection" in big letters

[cerberusalert]

It gets dafter and dafter. They've now involved a Hong Kongese company who in fact are governed by Chinese law, so in effect the want to try and collect an English debt through Chinese debt collectors from someone in Thailand

 

I wonder who they'll try next the Triads, Tongs or Yakuza?

 

There's an expat forum which you might find of interest; Expat Focus - Forums - Expat Issues (scroll down for country specific forums) - Personal Finance

[BlueSquirrel]

I am convinced they do it on purpose, I have told everyone I am dealing with that I am overseas and given them my address, but they continue to write to my previous UK address. Probably so they can issue county court summons and get judgement by default.

[nomorecrooks]

There are reciprocal agreements between the EU Countries. The following page deals with insolvency EUR-Lex - 32000R1346 - EN

 

I note that Denmark apears NOT to be a signatory; I also understand that UK money judgements cannot be chased in Denmark (unlike most EU nations); is my understanding correct?

[cerberusalert]

As I understand it an action would have to be brought in Denmark.