Black Horse - Drive me insane!!!

[andie_303]

I took out a laon with black horse 3 years ago - the loan was 38 payments of £138.91 as I deferrred the starting collection date for 2 months.

 

Not a problem and my last payment is due the 1st May.

 

Until I receive a statement showing outstanding balance not of £138.91 i.e. my last months payment - but £528.79!!

 

I called and asked for a breakdown bascially I got

 

1 x £138.91 - mays payment

£145 - late fee charges (err yeah right like I'm paying them)

£244.88 interest for when payments were late!!

 

Err are they kidding?? No way do I think that can be right??

 

Can someone please confirm if I am correct or going crazy?

 

The late payments were over a 4 month period September to February 2006.

 

I have CCA'd them at that had expired over 2 weeks ago - can someone post me a link to the letter I send them putting my account in dispute?

 

I also wrote a complaint about the charges they have not responded and instead just sent me a new statement showing the charges - I called today and was told it wasn't sent to the complaints department to deal with as it was not CLEAR enough that it was a complaint.

 

Hmmmm so asking that you refund charges immediately is not deemed a complaint??

 

I was also told I was wrong about a CCA request being 12+2 days - said think what you want matey no bother to me if you think I'm wrong cos I KNOW i'm not!

 

The thing is I just want to pay my last month get it listed as settled on my CRA and have done with it but I refuse to pay extortinate charges and interest. I'm hoping if I put my account into dispute see what happens and then perhaps offer a full and final settlement of the last month and see what they say.

 

Anyone got any other ideas??

 

Thanks

[IdaInFife]

i think you have done everything right, maybe alos include with the letter of dipsute a copy of the letter you sent re the charges:

 

Account In Dispute

Ref:

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

Furthermore

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

ida x

[andie_303]

Thank you very much - the person on the phone asked me today what I would be willing to pay in charges - I said 50p a month so £2- he said "do you think thats acceptable?" I said more acceptable than £145 yes!

[andie_303]

I recieved a copy of my CCA today (only 34 days since I asked for it!) and all seems to be in order enforceability wise.

 

However it says I have to pay 36 months at £138 and yet Black Horse have on my credit file 38.

 

I have paid 35 months at £138 odd pence and 1 month at £5 (no idea where this has come from) and it says my total repayable is £5000.06

 

I am £133.76 under this amount obviously the difference between a full months payment and the £5 - but Black Horse are showing over £500 still oustanding.

 

So I am 1 payment x £133.76 that I acknowledge then they have added on £140 in charges and over £240 that is unexplained - I assume this is interest or some other excessive charge.

 

As I put the account in dispute and canx my DD as it was due yesterday (and CCA not rec'd til today) should I write enclosing a cheque for £133.76 that I should pay them in a full and final settlement putting on their if they cash the cheque this will mean they accept the terms in which it was given and that may account will not be settled and marked as so with CRA's??

 

Any other advice would be appreciated

[IdaInFife]

If you want to pay the final payment as such then yes.

 

 

Dear Black Beauty,

 

My agreement with you was to repay £5000.06 at a rate of £138.xx for xx months.

 

I have paid £138.xx for xx months and £5 for 1 month. This totals to £xxxx.xx and therefore leaves me with a final payment of £137.xx.

 

Please find enclosed a cheque for £137.xx for final settlement of this account and if the enclosed cheque number xxxxxx is accepted and cashed, this accepted on the clear understanding that my liability for this account is fully discharged and that all credit reference agencies are updated to state this account is settled in full.

 

Now fook off

Andie

 

something along those lines

 

ida x

[andie_303]

LMAO IDA - Love it.

 

Think I'll give it a go - I don't mind paying the last payment but as for the charges and £200+ in interest?? As you said they can get fooked

 

I'll see what comes of it and let you know.

[andie_303]

Letter done will be keeping an eye on that cheque to see what happens.

 

If they cash it and come back later how can i prove this was a F&F offer (I wrote it on the rear of the cheque and photocopied the cheque with the letter)

 

I have also screen printed the properties of the letter showing the date created which will match the proof of postage receipt - would that be enough??

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I write to you in reference to the above account number and remind you that this account is legally in dispute owing to your companys failure to provide a valid CCA despite my request being received by yourselves on March 23rd 2009.

 

Find enclosed a cheque for £133.76 for final settlement of this account.

If the enclosed cheque number xxxxxx is accepted and cashed, this is accepted on the clear understanding that my liability for this account is fully discharged and that all credit reference agencies are updated to state this account is settled in full.

 

This should be done within 14 days of the above date.

 

Yours Faithfully

[andie_303]

recieved a letter from them this morning in response to my account in dispute letter,

 

Basically saying you have to pay us and we will record this negatively if you don't - yeah right like I'm bothered!

 

Will wait and see what happens with that cheque

[andie_303]

The latest here is they have sent me a letter saying I have missed a payment (duh!!) and that I need to contact them to make payment.

 

They have not responded to my complaint about charges or my settlement - despite them signing for this over 2 weeks ago.

 

The cheque has not been cashed.

 

Can they negatively report a late payment on my credit file despite me sending them a payment - all be it if the condition was they cashed it they accepted full settlement??

[andie_303]

Well they really are driving me insane now.

 

My letter with the cheque has been signed for but I've had no reply and the cheque not cashed.

 

However I have had an arrears letter asking for £309!! The amount of my missed DD is £138 so where have they got £309 from and then on May 11th I recieved a default sum letter for a £25 charge - giving me 10 days to pay it.

 

I have no idea what to do now - I refuse to pay what will now be £170 in charges for them to send me a total of 5 letters - 2nd class!!! over the years.

 

And if they had cashed that cheque they would have had all the money outstanding on my original CCA. Yet they are demanding an extra £244.88 + the £170 in charges.

 

The thing is I don't want them to put a late payment marker or anything like that on my credit file which I know will be there next trick - despite the account being in dispute.

 

Any ideas where to go from here??

[andie_303]

I'm thinking something like this.....

 

[Address]

 

 

Account Number XXXXXXXXXX

 

Dear Sir

 

I am writing to you with regard to your letters dated 9th & 11th May the contents of which are noted.

 

However I am bemused by their contents as the above account is currently in dispute.

 

The letter of dispute was served on your company via recorded delivery on April 9th 2009 and this informed you of your obligations under the Consumer Credit Act and OFT guidelines. This included

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Yet you have disregarded the above and continued to harrass me by sending letters demanding payment and default sum letters for incorrect charges.

 

This is wholly unaccpetable and if this continues I will without further notice to yourselves commence legal proceedings against your company.

 

Should you register this negatively with any credit reference agency I will have no option but to file this in court.

 

Should you fail to adhere to the dispute I will have no option but to instigate further legal proceedings on the grounds that your company is maliciously damaging my credit file for which I will seek substantial damages.

 

I bring your attention to cases Durkin V DGS Retail and HFC Bank, King V British Linen and Co & Wilson V County Bank Ltd, all of which I will cite in further action taken.

 

I expect this matter to be rectified on or before 1st June 2009. Should you ignore this request I will without further communication file this matter with the court.

 

I also expect a response to my letter dated 1st May 2009 which was signed for by your company on 6th May 2009.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

what do you think??

[andie_303]

I rang them today and was basically told that even though my letter on the 6th had been signed for, which they acknowledge they don't know what has happened to the cheque or the letter as it has not be loaded on to their system so they can read it.

 

They have advised to stop payment on that cheque and send another and that they will refund the late charge for this month as they accept it is their fault.

 

I still don't know if they have just not accepted my offer and therefore that is why they didn't cash the cheque however I will try sending again and see what they say.

[andie_303]

******UPDATE*******

 

 

Called them today to make sure they hadn't lost my cheque this time that was signed for on tuesday and the man I spoke with said nothing had logged on my account as being recieved...but then said

 

"a payment was credited to your account on the 19th" - is that the cheque you are looking for??

 

sure enough it was. Called my bank and it left my account yesterday and hit theirs today.

 

The man on the phone then chimes up "when will the other £300 odd be paid!"

 

Now I am hoping this is because they haven't loaded the letter on their system and closed my account etc yet but I know generally I am not that lucky.

 

So my question is as my letter clearly said the payment was in f&f settlement of the account and in cashing it they were accepting it etc and I have photocopied the letter and cheque including the writting on the back that say in full and final settlement of account XXXXXXXXX

 

Please tell me they are legally bound to that??

[andie_303]

bump

 

Any help appreciated

[andie_303]

Hi

 

I was coming to the end of my agreement with Black Horse and I discovered that instead of the last payment of £138 as I expected my account showed £540 outstanding - the £402 difference was apparently £145 charges for 3 months I missed some payments in 2007 and the remainder is added interest for the missed payments.

 

They tell me I would have agreed to this extra interest as they have basically treated my missed payments like a payment holiday - for which they have charged more than the APR would have amounted to from the increased balance for the months I hadn't paid.

 

I absolutely 100% know I did not agree to this and have asked for a copy of the phonecall where I agreed to this - so far nothing has been forthcoming.

 

I have also complained in writing about charges again to no response.

 

So after getting some advice I sent them a F&F offer of the months payment that was due on my account on 1st May 2009.

 

I wrote a letter saying that this payment was in full and final settlement of the account and that if the cheque was cashed this was deemed that the offer was accepted and my account was to be closed in 14 days and marked as settled on my credit file etc etc.

 

I also wrote on the back of the cheque in full and final settlement of account XXXXXX Not to be used for any other purpose.

 

This cheque was cashed and therefore I deemed the offer to be accepted.

 

Today however I recieve a letter demanding a further £308 so I rang them and asked if this was a cross over letter i.e. between my account being closed and the writing of the letter.

I am told no the account is not closing and that I have to pay the remainder outstanding.

 

I didn't really want to argue with the operator about it on the phone so I just said - you banked a full and final settlement cheque, if you didn't accept the offer you shouldn't have cashed the cheque.

 

Her response was "We don't reject payments! and it doesn't matter what you wrote"

 

Is this right?

 

I have proof that this was a f&f offer - obviously the writing on the cheque but I also photocopied the letter along with the front and back of the cheque and it was sent recorded delivery.

 

Can they still chase me even after cashing this and therefore accepting the conditions placed upon it?

 

Thanks

[wayoutneeded]

I would think that you would have needed a letter from them accepting the Full and Final BEFORE sending them any money.

[Bazooka Boo]

Did they agree to a F&F settlement?

[andie_303]

In cashing the cheque - yes

 

That was the condition on the letter.

 

I'll post a copy of the letter hang on....

[andie_303]

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I write to you in reference to the above account number and remind you that this account is legally in dispute owing to your companys failure to provide a valid CCA despite my request being received by yourselves on March 23rd 2009.

 

Find enclosed a cheque for £133.76 for final settlement of this account.

If the enclosed cheque number xxxxxx is accepted and cashed, this is accepted on the clear understanding that my liability for this account is fully discharged and that all credit reference agencies are updated to state this account is settled in full.

 

This should be done within 14 days of the above date.

 

Yours Faithfully

[andie_303]

If they didn't accept it they shouldn't have cashed the cheque they should have returned it saying No we don't accept this please make arrangement to pay the full amount owing or something like that.

 

I couldn't have made it more clear this was an offer it was even written on the cheque

[kellyplanet]

I agree with wayoutneeded. They are the ones who need to offer you a F&F settlement before you send any payment.

 

I really don't know what you can do know other than claim for a refund of the charges that they applied to the account.

 

Good luck

[IdaInFife]

I'm not too sure as when banks etc send letters to settle charges they have the same clause in their letters and should work both ways.

 

Try sending a letter along lines of.

 

Thank you for you letter dated xx/xx/xx requesting payment of £308.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of my letter of full and final settlement of the account in which the terms you accepted on cashment of the cheque.

 

The payment was only to be accepted by yourselves on the understanding of the enclosed letter and if you did not wish to agree to these terms then please return cheque forwith.

 

As you have accepted the payment, please can you now confirm in writing within 14 days the account is now closed with no balance due and that all adverse information with the credit reference agencies have been removed.

 

I await your response,

 

Ida x

[andie_303]

I agree with wayoutneeded. They are the ones who need to offer you a F&F settlement before you send any payment.

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply but I know It's not only the bank that can offer a F&F settlement - anyone can offer to anyone, it's whether they choose to accept it or not.

 

That's really my question here - I deem they accepted it in the fact they cashed the cheque that specifically said the condition of accepting this was the account was discharged and marked as settled.

 

If they did not want to do this they should have returned the cheque.

 

I point blank refuse to pay £145 charges and £257 for interest on a "payment holiday" I never agreed to and they can't prove otherwise they would have replied to my letter about it.

 

Thanks Ida I will send the letter - far as I'm concerned if their next step is to go after my credit rating to report false late payments on here I'll be the one taking them to court not the other way round - on one now

[cds]

In cashing the cheque they could be construed as entering a tacit contract in which no verbal or written contract is needed. As a consequence their actions could be a case of promissary estoppel, think it woud take some arguing in court but just a thought.

 

cds

[wayoutneeded]

Thanks for your reply but I know It's not only the bank that can offer a F&F settlement - anyone can offer to anyone, it's whether they choose to accept it or not.

 

That's really my question here - I deem they accepted it in the fact they cashed the cheque that specifically said the condition of accepting this was the account was discharged and marked as settled.

 

If they did not want to do this they should have returned the cheque.

 

I point blank refuse to pay £145 charges and £257 for interest on a "payment holiday" I never agreed to and they can't prove otherwise they would have replied to my letter about it.

 

Thanks Ida I will send the letter - far as I'm concerned if their next step is to go after my credit rating to report false late payments on here I'll be the one taking them to court not the other way round - on one now

 

 

I agree anyone can make a full and final offer but you need the companies acceptance of the offer BEFORE sending the payment.