1st time bailiff problem

[crobinson]

Hi.

 

I had a bailiff from Rosendales turn up on my door step on tuesday looking for council tax from a previous address, i no longer live in that borough.

 

He didnt get into the house and nobody signed anything (i was in work at the time).

 

The debt is from when i moved house i owed roughly owed £100, i agreed with the council at the time to pay £10 a week by direct debit, i even paid the first payment over the phone, i sent off the payment plan form and all was agreed.

as far as i was aware this was paid.

 

However about 3 months ago i got a letter from rosendales looking for the money, i ignored the letter as i felt i had paid it, then the next thing i know is there are bailiffs on the doorstep.

 

I phoned him when i got in from work and explained i thought i had paid it but he said i will have to take it up with the council and call him back in a few days as he had been ordered to take stuff (he turned up in a van).

 

It turns out the the direct debit was never set up by the council despite me sending them my details for it to be done.

 

So now this Bailiff is looking for £280 from me, how its got to that amount i dont know..

 

I wanted to know a few things if thats possible.

 

Is it true that Bailiffs can not enter the property if there are children under the age of 12 in the propert?

 

Who do i request a breakdown of the debt off, Rosendales or the Bailiff himself and do they have to provide them? and whilst i am waiting for them will they call off the heavies or will they still come around whilst i am waiting?

 

I was tempted to just borrow the money off family to pay the debt, if i paid the debt in full to the bailiff would this be the end of it or could i expect to see them again over the same debt?

 

Can i no longer just deal with the previous council as i no longer live there and its gone beyond that stage?

 

Im wondering when this bailiff is going to turn up again, could be any day.

 

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[crobinson]

To add i spoke to the council involved and they have said i have to deal directly with the bailiff now.

 

There part of the debt is £102, so Rosendales part is £180...how?

 

I would like to fight this but have a fiance and 2 young children who are left at home when i go to work who i dont want to be left to deal with them.

[hallowitch]

don't pay the bailiff they take there charges first and i think there charges are to high plz start your own thread as I'm not an expert on bailiffs but there are lots on here are

[crobinson]

To add i spoke to the council involved and they have said i have to deal directly with the bailiff now.

 

There part of the debt is £102, so Rosendales part is £180...how?

 

I would like to fight this but have a fiance and 2 young children who are left at home when i go to work who i dont want to be left to deal with them.

 

I was advised its best to start a new thread.

 

thanks

[Guest Happy Contrails]

To answer your questions.

 

A bailiff can still enter a property if it is occupied by a 12 year old, not if he is home alone. More: http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10 He cannot commit breaking & entering or threaten you with it.

 

Asking a bailiff for a breakdown of fees is pointless because the law already prescribes bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax and the council can tell you how much is shown on the Liability Order.

 

Do not borrow money to pay the debt. Your post indicates you may not have a liability at all. Regulation 14(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 provides for a fee of £24.50 for a first visit and appears no visit has taken place yet. Pushing a document through your letterbox is not a visit and does not incur a fee.

 

Your post says the bailiff asked you for roughly £280, phone the council and ask for the amount of council tax liability as it is shown on the Liability Order. Then ask the council what address is displayed on the Liability Order, write it down and quickly end the call.

 

If the address quoted by the council is different to the address the bailiff is sending documents then you have proof you have no liability for bailiffs fees. That is because the liability order is not compliant with Regulation 33 & 34 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 which requires the council to deliver to you a final notice before proceedings but this was sent to a wrong address. Also, Regulation 34 requires the court to summons you to appear before the court to say why you have not paid. The law, namely Section 7 of the Interpretation Act legislates the service of documents did not properly take place because evidence to the contrary now exists because your address is different to that shown on the Liability Order.

 

A bailiff charging fees contrary to the above-mentioned Regulations commits an offence of Fraud by False Representation and can be charged under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. You have a right to make a formal complaint to the court that issued the bailiffs certificate. Phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate, then download the complaint form http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing any supporting evidence of the bailiffs fees. You also have a right to make a complaint to police and have the criminal element to the case investigated.

 

The bailiff will call eventually, do not open the door to him or say your name. Do tell him you are reporting him for fee fraud and the matter is now in the hands of the courts and the police and ask him to quietly leave the property.

 

Then call the council and tell them the liability order has the wrong address on it and is not compliant to Regulation 33 & 34 and offer to make periodical payments direct to the council. Do make it known to the council their bailiff has been caught cheating with his fees and it is being passed to police for criminal investigation. At the first sign of an excuse from the council then make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, crobinson.

 

Sorry, I started a new thread for you, before realising you had started one yourself.

 

I'll unapprove some posts to make it easier to follow.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Peroni]

I've had dealings with Rossendales recently (not a bailiff in a black 4x4 is it? He arrived in that and attempted to charge me a van fee.) and the bailiff I dealt with attempted to add unlawful fees to my account. I spoke to the council and after I informed them of his intimidating and threatening manner in which the bailiff had addressed me over the phone, so they agreed to take the debt back which I then paid in full after they deducted their admin fee error which then halved the bill.

[crobinson]

Thanks for the replies..

 

HC, the council did send me some letters to my current address and issued a ccj, i then phoned up the council and arranged to make payments, i manually paid the 1st £10 and there was due to be 7 or 8 more payments after i had sent them my bank details to set up a direct debit, this was never set up i found out today.

I then recieved a basic letter out of the blue from rosendales a few months ago saying i still owed council tax from my previous address, which i ignored, then the bailiff turned up on my door and spoke to my fiance as i was in work, he turned up with a van, i phoned him the next day and told him i wanted to speak to my bank to check it hadnt been paid...

 

and thats where i am currently up to.

 

I can get the money to pay him as it would be easier, i dont want him coming around bothering my family when i am working......not sure what to do, if it was just me i wouldnt pay, i would fight it as a lot of people seems to have done on here but anything could happen whilst i am working and that concerns me, even more than paying the excessive fine.

 

If i did pay him is there a guarentee that all the debt (council tax and bailiff fees) will be cleared..?

 

Feel like a bit of a cop out wanting to pay it but dont want my family feeling scared to leave the house.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Pay the coluncil direct, Chris660uk is an expert on this. If you pay a bailiff he'll probably help himself to a few hundred quid of it as fees.

 

I shouldn't feel threatened by a bailiff, if you keep your door shut and do not speak to him there little he can do. Go to the council with cash and get a receipt. If they refuse payment then you have cleared your liability under Regulation 36 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

[crobinson]

I phoned the council direct and they say i now have to deal with the bailiff.

I no longer live in there borough.

 

I just read section 36 on the council tax regulations and i cant make head or tail of how the clears my liability if i offer to pay them.

 

If i did this wouldnt they bailiffs still pursue me for there costs?

[Guest Happy Contrails]

If you have paid the debt then a bailiff cannot call and enforce payment of he fees. It is called a null debt. Get a receipt from the council confirming the debt is paid in full and show it to a bailiff if he turns up and ask him to quietly leave the property.

[crobinson]

Thanks HC, finally how do i get the council to accept payment from me, they have already told me (i phoned today) i have to deal with the bailiff now.

Is there anything that i can say if they refuse to deal with me, do they have to accept payment from me if i offer it in full?

 

Again, your help has been greatly appreciated.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

You turn up at the council and make a formal offer to pay the debt and agree a repayment structure. If you are fobbed off with age-old deal with the bailiff excuse then you tell the council their bailiff has been caught cheating with his fees, show his document to prove it and say the matter has been passed to the police for criminal investigation under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. The law only provides for £24.50 for a first visit and the law does not obligate you to do business with a bailiff, and certainly not one who is a fraudster and a cheat.

 

You must make it known to the council their liability order is invalid because the address is wrong and no enforcement can take place. The council has failed to comply with Regulation 33 & 34 and you are giving the council an opportunity to put thing right in accepting payment.

 

Tell the council that if the council does not accept this opportunity then you will make a complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman and ask that the council pays you compensation for failing to comply with Regulation 33 & 34 when it applied for a liability order and for receiving their bailiff who then tried to cheat you with his fees. Compensation awards by the LGO for enforcement of an invlaid liability order is usually about £100.