We own the Data!!! Time for Class action

[crew74]

I have been battling with Experian for a few few months now, because they would not remove a default re a disputed account.

I have the feeling that the current system of Credit Referencing does not comply with the Data Protection Act.

When I challenged Experian they said they cannot remove anything as they need permission from their client (ie The banks) because they own the data.

Reading through the Act, I feel the person who owns the data is the subject (ie the customer), and that unless the customer's finances are being investigated (by the Police) for fraud or there is a county court judgement then Experian has to remove any other data relating to the account(s) as it is not of public interest.

Other countries have a system where a not for profit governmental body (ie Banque de France) stores any defaults for 5 years(if they have been served legally and not rectified). Any time you apply for credit the banks would check that you are not in that list and providing you can prove your income with paychecks and your address you would get the credit you applied for.That seems a lot fairer than the system in place in the UK where the data is sold by a for-profit organisation who has a vested interest in the banks and sees it fit to refuse to remove the data even if you've paid off the debt. I think it is time to join forces and have this system changed. Your thoughts please!!

Edited April 16, 2009 by crew74

[noddyaccount]

I have been battling with Experian for a few few months now, because they would not remove a default re a disputed account.

I have the feeling that the current system of Credit Referencing does not comply with the Data Protection Act.

When I challenged Experian they said they cannot remove anything as they need permission from their client (ie The banks) because they own the data.

Reading through the Act, I feel the person who owns the data is the subject (ie the customer), and that unless the customer's finances are being investigated (by the Police) for fraud or there is a county court judgement then Experian has to remove any other data relating to the account(s) as it is not of public interest.

Other countries have a system where a not for profit governmental body (ie Banque de France) stores any defaults for 5 years(if they have been served legally and not rectified). Any time you apply for credit the banks would check that you are not in that list and providing you can prove your income with paychecks and your address you would get the credit you applied for.That seems a lot fairer than the system in place in the UK where the data is sold by a for-profit organisation who has a vested interest in the banks and sees it fit to refuse to remove the data even if you've paid off the debt. I think it is time to join forces and have this system changed. Your thoughts please...

 

I totally agree , however there are alot of vested interests to do battle with .

[crew74]

I am meeting Vince Cable MP tomorrow to see what his opinion is on the subject. I advise forum members to start attending their local MP's surgery as they are the one making the Law.Our MP's should be made aware that laws voted by them to protect the general public are being abused. Let the pressure build!!

[mcarreno]

Hi

 

Perhaps some form of online petition to get the ball rolling- I would sign- this has to stop

[crew74]

The Walls Have Ears!!!

Edited April 24, 2009 by crew74

[crew74]

The Walls Have Ears!!!

Edited April 24, 2009 by crew74

[citizenB]

VInce Cable does seem to be on the side of the consumer, it will be interesting to see if he does go further with your complaint.

 

If you look round the forums, you will see lots of CAGers fighting to remove default information from their CRA records and the long battles they are having.

 

I think there have been quite a few petitions set up on the Prime Ministers web site regarding this issue.

[surferdood]

I have started getting some nuisance messages left with neighbours by the company Telogram - asking if I still live next door...where do I work etc. I have no idea what they're after - though I did recently get refused a loan apparently because of my Experian credit rating.

 

I would like to get a report from Experian, but am concerned this will confirm my address to Telogram and I really dont want them pestering me or my neighbours.

 

So, can someone advise, if I get a credit report from Experian, will this confirm my act as confirming my address to this TeloGram company?

[hme.4x4]

3 Petitions to sign................. sign if you agree!

 

 

Petition to: Regulate the UK's Credit Reference Agencies. | Number10.gov.uk

 

Petition to: Create an amnesty on credit scoring through credit referencing agencies for the next 2 years, followed by a fairer system. | Number10.gov.uk

 

Petition to: force credit reference agencies to allow free access to your own report. | Number10.gov.uk

[crew74]

HME4x4, couldn't agree more. It is high time to regulate these companies!! However, I'm afraid that on the UK level it's generally accepted that it's OK for these companies to replace governmental powers. Even Vince Cable admitted that it would be impossible for CRA to verify the accuracy of their data and that there was a conflict of interest in the way things are set up.

That's why I think it might be more efficient to campaign on the EU level as I am sure our French and German counterparts would be appalled that the government allows private companies to process sensitive data, to sell it and to refuse to correct it when it is inaccurate.Also ,their method of credit rating is highly subjective and they could be deemed as extremely discriminatory. IE You won't be offered a decent rate if you do not have any history ( if you came here from another EU country, or you never needed a credit card),they also admit taking into consideration your address to assess if you're likely to repay. How does your neighbours credit habits affect the way you manage your own credit?

[hme.4x4]

Agree wholeheartedly, so do you think that we need a Euro petition? and if so who do we petition?

[citizenB]

Check this thread out

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/191791-knocked-back-dca-sec.html

[ScarletPimpernel]

Having lived in Germany, I can say that they have CRAs that are commercial concerns too, with all the same problems. Indeed, Experian and Equifax are international companies, with tentacles in many countries - Experian operates in 65 countries.

 

They don't just stick to credit referencing either (which is, in my view, one of the fundamental problems) - they also collect data about purchasing, and operate DCAs.

 

It's clear that CRAs, like the rest of the financial sector, are incapable of self-regulation, and there ought to be proper regulation and enforcement. It seems to me that what is needed is a financial version of the Access to Medical Reports Act 1988, giving consumers a right to see any report before it is submitted to a lender (or anyone else), and giving a right for factual inaccuracies to be corrected.

[patrickq1]

It seems to me that what is needed is a financial version of the Access to Medical Reports Act 1988, giving consumers a right to see any report before it is submitted to a lender (or anyone else), and giving a right for factual inaccuracies to be corrected.

Credit Report Click link to open in new window.

been calling for this for over 10 years it will never happen when it get to the lords the undeclared intrests of the lords will stop it dead in its tracks exp and equ pay out a very big sum of money to mps and the like

patrickq1

[Sol]

I have started getting some nuisance messages left with neighbours by the company Telogram - asking if I still live next door...where do I work etc. I have no idea what they're after - though I did recently get refused a loan apparently because of my Experian credit rating.

 

I would like to get a report from Experian, but am concerned this will confirm my address to Telogram and I really dont want them pestering me or my neighbours.

 

So, can someone advise, if I get a credit report from Experian, will this confirm my act as confirming my address to this TeloGram company?

 

Telogram is part of Capquest, a DCA. They'll be pursuing some debt or other, but I think that they're breaching the DPA by speaking with neighbours etc and by not being honest about who they are. You should report them.

[crew74]

As always, nothing will get changed if we just meekly accept things as they are. I know for fact that these CRAs do not operate in France and defaults or breaches of credit agreement are issued and registered with a governmental body (Banque de France) and if the Debtor rectifies the situation at any time during during the 5 years the entry is subsequently deleted.Credit is subject to hard evidence (payslips , proof of address and letter from your employer stating that you are not in any termination of employment process). With these criteria in place the need for CRA is non existing. When people provide fake payslips or whatever, then banks have a REAL recourse against REAL fraudsters, but Joe Public does not get penalised by so called CRAs who don't have their homework in order.

Edited April 22, 2009 by crew74

[diddydicky]

surfodood

 

the danger of not registering your current address is that the other side may get a ccj against you at your last know address without you knowing about it

 

there is nothing to fear by them knowing your new address - just write toi them telling them that theya re not welcome to call or phone- end of

[crew74]

The Walls Have Ears!!!

Edited April 24, 2009 by crew74

[crew74]

The Walls Have Ears!!!

Edited April 24, 2009 by crew74

[diddydicky]

Hi crew 74

 

you asked for comments- here goes:-

 

whilst i am 100% for enforcing my (and your) rights in getting unenforceable agreements squashed, i cannot agree that the data provided by the creditor to the credit reference agencies about the conduct of an account belongs solely to the debtor - any more than they can claim that what you say about them on this forum belongs solely to them

 

Surely they are entitled to protect themselves as a group just as we are, and must be allowed to accurately record the status of the account on a monthly basis

 

We have to be fair and reasonable when claiming back what is due and it seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable that a creditor is able to alert future possible creditors to the fact that someone has entered into an agreement and has not complied with it as intended.

 

I cannot see that Whether the information is collated via a profit or non profit operation has any relevance. (provided of course that it is true)

 

If you lost your case against the credit card company and a court found the agreement enforceable -arguably (on your hypothesis) they could ask that all information(data) posted on sites like this are their property and demand that it all be removed!

 

Lets get real here, they have to abide by strict guidelines and be open an upfront about what they say about us

 

we, on the other hand post anonymously anything we care to say about them on forums such as this which cannot be substantiated

 

I personally have had an arrangement with 3 cards to pay reduced payments and no interest, and whilst i am now working to get them cancelled as their appears to be no valid enforceable contracts - I have no problem with the fact that information that i was unable to continue (for whatever reason) with the agreed form of repayment has been recorded on my credit file- after all it's true!

 

If i feel information recorded against me is unjust i can have this recorded on the credit reference agency's file for prospective lenders to see

 

Also i am now thanks to this site sufficiently aware that until a court declares that an agreement is unenforceable - it is still an agreement that is simply in default and could become live again at a future date

 

It seems to me that on the one hand you are criticising the agency for accepting information that the creditor gives them at face value but your are expecting them to beleive what you say at face value-

 

I am not trying to knock you but i do feel that you are trying to launch a crusade that has not a cat in hells chance of getting anywhere

 

 

I also feel that while vince cable might pay lip service to your cause- he seems to me to be a man who can see the overall picture and would not champion a cause which would see a return to reckless lending - rather i think he would in fact support even tighter controls on obtaining credit which would not be served by relaxing what controls are in place at the moment

 

 

In their defence of any claim you make the credit reference agency would point to the fact that you have been making regular payments to the company which clearly indicates that some form of transaction took place and the reference agency would only need to show this to be the case to support their argument that they are acting perfectly lawfully in accepting information from the creditor that the account was not satisfactory in whatever way.

 

The burden of proof that it has acted improperly or sought to defame you would be on you and i think would be an impossible point to prove.

 

Unless you take the matter all the way through the courts or get the lender to admit that they do not have an enforceable agreement you cannnot guarantee to the credit reference agency that lender does not have it.

 

Furthermore a creditor is legally entitled NOT to enforce a debt at any particular time if he so chooses without being said to have abandoned the debt - for instance if it thought that to pursue the debt at a particular time would be throwing good money after bad - they would be perfectly legally entitled to Sit on the debt until another time when perhaps your situation my have improved to the extent that they may then feel able to justify the expense of pursuing you (up to six years of course)

 

Information they placed on record before the alleged default on their part relating to missed payments or agreed reduced payments would not in my opinion be able to be wiped off the record simply because of their later default and although i have been reading many threads about getting rid of adverse information post default - i haven't seen too many reports of success in getting it removed.

 

The credit crunch has come about through reckless lenders AND reckless borrowers (and reckless govt controls) and we all have to accept responsiblity for the live now pay later culture we have disastrously embarked upon over the last 20 years or so.

 

The present mood is to return to more traditional cautious lending therefore any attempt to relax what adverse information is recorded in order to allow lenders to make those decisions seems to me to be a definate non starter

 

i think that unless you have access to some hefty funds (and even if you have) that you would be extrexemley unwise to start any legal action against credit reference agencies in this respect or in respect of alleged defamation

 

sorry if it is not what you want to hear but you did ask!

[Sol]

I agree Dickydicky. The only thing I would say would make more sense is to have 1 CRA instead of the three we have now.

[crew74]

Thanks for your comments , I definitely KNOW that the data recorded does NOT reflect the way my accounts are managed, and that the Data Protection Act is ignored when it comes to my rights as a Subject. As I mentioned in my post, I am not after obtaining any credit at the moment. But I am very unlikely to put up with defamation when I am actually paying back (and more).In addition, there is a very easy way to assess one's solvability by asking them to provide hard evidence of their earnings, address ect. But I suppose it would not be very profitable for CRA's. A REAL default should be recorded by a judge and not by some partisan private entity. That's only my humble opinion.I am very unlikely to give up as I don't tolerate injustice too well.But I am glad to see that some people find the system works perfectly and satisfies the requirements of a modern and equitable democracy.

Edited April 24, 2009 by crew74

[diddydicky]

well crew i didn't say it works perfectly, don't get me wrong, but you do have to remember there are can't pays and WON'T pays

 

I know of shedloads of cases where people with excellent incomes simply borrow on cards mortgages loans for cars etc and then spend their money on wasteful living and then get into difficulties repaying borrowings (i've done it myself)

 

the purpose of the credit reference agencies which by and large work well is to show potential lenders what a persons history of making regular payments is like and not how much income they have at the time they take out a loan.

 

thats why some people (usually older) cant get credit at all - not because they have ever defaulted on a loan but because they have never had a loan of any kind - thus they are not trusted as they dont have a "track record"

 

i remember my father in law being turned down for a mobile phone contract because there was NO RECORDS at all on credit files about him at the age of 80!

 

we eventually got him the contract after a lot of lettersn back and forth with the phone company!

 

if of course the data recorded against you is innacurate then yes by all means do all you can to have it corrected.

[crew74]

Thanks for clarifying! But do you think that is is FAIR that an 80 year old man who probably behaved honestly and responsibly (I am making an assumption) throughout his life has to go through this sort of embarrassment...Simply because he does not fit the box. This is only acceptable in a totalitarian system. Where I come from (France) if they had such a system heads would start rolling...again....

My Granny is 86 and and she never borrowed anything in her life and has a substantial savings, all she had to do to get her contract is to show them a copy of her passport, a cancelled cheque and proof of address.Had she had a default the cancelled cheque would have been rejected and she would have been advised to contact the Banque De France.

[diddydicky]

well all i can do is put myself in the position that someone is asking ME to lend THEM some money

 

if they had no credit record i think id be suspicious ( they could be immigrants and could disssapear without trace after i lent them the money) and would probably do the same

 

ie ask for more information/proof that they were genuine

 

i am coming from a practical viewpoint but reading between the lines in your postings i get the impression that your views are more policitically motivated!