unenforced CCAs and IVA help needed

[dashy-1]

Hi all,

 

Have been reading the forum for about 2 weeks now, and I can only wish I had seen it at the time I have entered in to IVA with my creditors.

 

I have about 27K of unsecured debt, and entered in to IVA in February 2006.

 

Most of the credit cards and loans were taken out in 2003 and 2004 (some in 2005). I have used external company to sort my IVA out and it has been agreed that I will pay back 12K within 5 years.

 

Since I came accross CAG i have now CCA`ed my creditors but have not got any reply yet (the period runs out on 17/04/2009). And I have a several questions:

 

1. My understanding is that all the creditors should comunicate to the IP who arrange my IVA directly and not to the debtor (me) so I am wandering where my Credit agreements will be sent to?

 

2. I am pritty sure that some of the Agreements are unenforceable, but I have aknowladge my debt by going in to IVA. So what are my options (apart form continue to pay IVA)

 

3. If I default on my IVA payments, I understand that DCA`s will be in touch shorty demanding payments. How would they calculate the payments since I have already paid 4.7K out of 12k whilst on IVA?

Can I request a statment from IP to see how much they paid and to whom?

 

Thanks you very much for your oppinions and advise.

Dashy-1

[gizmo111]

If you stop the IVA then it is likely that there is a clause that will make you BR. You only have 2 years to go.

[dashy-1]

If you stop the IVA then it is likely that there is a clause that will make you BR. You only have 2 years to go.

 

Thanks.

 

So I think you are saying:

 

1. If there is a clause in my IVA agreement that says that if i default on IVA payment "they" will make me BR.

That said - some one (IP presumably) will have to do it through the court. Spend their time and money on it with absolutely nothing in return?

What would they gain making me a BR?

 

2. If IP will not action the clause and let it go a drift. I susspect DCA`s will be in touch, but again - provided that the Credit agreements are unenforcable - surely they will not be able to BR me either, thats not in their best interest too.

 

As it turns out the situation with my IVA is very interesting:

 

Originaly it was done via DebtMatters who went under I think (restructed or something). All its accouts were taken over by Grand Thornton. Who sent me a report with the payments I made, and it turns out (according to the report) that none of about 4.7K were distributed to the creditors.

 

I am in the middle of requesting the explanation of it. And would really appriciate your help helping me to draft the letter to them.

 

As of this particular moment - I feel that all the payments I made to DebtMatters were actually never passed to the creditors, and since there is no DebtMatters anymore Grant Thornton migh just say that there is nothing they can do (or anyone else can).

 

I will scan my IVA agreement and see if I can share it with you.

 

Thank you very much.

dashy

[Tawnyowl]

Bit of info-hope it may help slightly.Would like to know where the 4.7k is.I think IP would be interested in possible unenforcable agreements.Hopefully.EN for Business - Debtmatters exits IVA market Grant Thornton FAQ

[henderson50]

Hi

 

I am in a similar position with a number of agreements within an IVA which I think are Unenforceable if tested. Can I pursue this without the Suoervisor, my monthly payments are £1100 a month and I don't think I can sustain it anyway.

 

Is putting the debt in the IVA any different than having originally made regular payments.

 

Any knowledge welcomed

Henderson50

[dashy-1]

Hi, would be interested to hear what stage you are on with your CCA and IVA. How long have you been in IVA for? if you paying 1100 per month in your repayments I can guess that your debt it about 100K? or something.

 

not sure if this helps us: but my IVA company is not interested in my CCA requests and dealings with creditors directly. All they want is their monthly payments in line. The rest - they dont give a s.h.i.t about. I think this is only because I have not paid off their fees yet, so I if fail my IVA on the grounds that there is no proper agreement in place - they gonna loose their 4,5k they charged me for setting up IVA.

 

Last time when i spoke to IP they asked me why am I desputing the debt? - my answer to it was: It is my right, and i am exersizing it. She did not ask any more questions.

 

Henderson, have you CCA`d your creditors?

[henderson50]

Thanks for that.From what I can find out there is no problem sorting out unenforeable agreements despite the IVA. I was hoping to find a cmc with no back end fees who could assistbut no luck so farCheersHenderson50

[henderson50]

I made a mistake and let a company get 4 of them. I in which they have audited and has several things wrong on which their solicitor is prepared to act no win no feeThey want 30% of any success though-at the time I did'nt know threre were alternatives, so I don't want to proceed with them.

[dashy-1]

I have found this forum just before going ahead with CMC, luckely. All my creditors are now CCAed and I have only one out of 10 that have a possible enforcable agreement - although it has problems. I have SAR`ed 2 of the creditors, and the rest are in default with the CCA reply at themoment. My plan is to check all my agreements and then i`ll make a call either to fail my IVA, or keep paying it or just suggest to the creaditors lower repyaments. All in all, You need to gather all the info first I think.

Stick around, since we have similar probs might be benefiacial for us to share info.

[henderson50]

Will keep in touch-early stage of IVA. Debt a lot, but if I could reduce the amount enforceable would propose another arrangement to those not cca. IP got me to agree at £1100 but to be honest in this economy can't keep up. Bk would cost my job so have to find a way. Going to start again with CCA REQUESTS today-drop the existing cmc who isjust too expensive, although the first report seems conclusive a £13700 balance is unenforceable. WhatS a SAR? Do you have a template I can use.

 

Good to find someone who understands the IVA complication

 

hENDERSON50

[bizzib]

Hi Guys, been reading your thread with anticipation, I too am in the same boat, have been trying to find people in the same situation as me, I am probably not quite at the same stage as you, but I have recieve an offer from Natwest, but they have failed to send all the information from the SAR, only recieved bank statements, they have admitted they were 'unable to locate' the requested information. I have not spoken to my IP as yet, I wanted to get all the information in order to go back to them, plus my IP keeps changing?

Would be good to know if we can challenge these creditors.

Will be watching this thread with great interest & I will also keep you updated on my findings also.

 

Thanks

 

Bizzi

[henderson50]

Hi

 

Will do. This is slightly off subject, but requested details of my mortgage charges from Halifax 2 weeks ago, got them by return, I had £738 of charges including £199 deed admin fee. Sent a letter to them asking for charges to be repaid. Received a cheque for £738 this morning-can't believe it- attention all get back your charges

hENDERSON50

[bizzib]

fantastic News!!.. I wish all the companies were this co-operative!!

[missy cash]

Hi All

 

Been reading threads with great interest !!!

I have debt with the following prior to April 6th 2007

 

co -op

mbna

egg

 

I have been in negociations trying to get a 20-25% full and final settlement.

We are close to 30-40% right now and i have recently read in the newspapers about theese companys that for £200 per credit card or loan will

check if your credit agreements are unenforceable.

Like you write in this thread and a few others there are 6 points or so that if they are not in the agreement then this apprently can not be enforced right ?

 

I have a few questions regarding this

 

1. I did CCA a few months back before I knew about all this CCAct 1974

CAN I CCA them again ? - IS it TOO late to act on the CCA's from earlier in the year?

 

2. If I can prove that these are not enforceable and LETS say I dont pay them a penny.... HOW DOES THAT AFFECT MY CREDIT RATING NOW FOR the next 6 years ? and then LONGER TERM ?

 

3. Does the CAG have proof that people are wining cases like this and getting off debt ?

 

4. Will Debt Mangmentment and the Credit card companies continue to chase me for years to come ???

 

Does anyone have any sucess stories theycan share... Is it worth using one of these companies .. .the man i spoke to yesturday said its £200 and when they recive my CCa if it is enforceable they will give me all my money back . A FULL REFUND. Is this a con ? Or are they that confident ?

 

Misssy Cash

[missy cash]

great news re halifax mortgage well done !

 

btw - I had agreed a full and final with MBNA and they they messed me around... I recorded all the calls - however someone mentioned that if you verbally agree a full and final then you can not do this CCA thing and wrtie off the debt via a unenforcemable CCA ?

 

CAN WE REALLY WRITE OFF THE DEBT DUE TO THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 messed up rules ????

 

FAntasticx!

Missy

[credicardslave]

Missy Cash,

 

I seem to be in the same boat as you. The advice on here is "don't pay a claims tout £200 for something you can do yourself". But what I question is if we can really do it ourselves. After spending hours reading the posts, I have realised that a lot of the successful claims were a few years ago and the more recent posts are not awash with successes. I wouldn't have the time or ability to become conversant with law statuates and attend court/submit court forms. If you read a lot of the posts now to comply with the section 77/78 request, the companies don't have to send you the original CCA anyway. I have been in touch with a company who will provide the service for £160 and I might give them a go and see what happens.

[arun]

Hi Guys, I'm in the same boat as well.

 

Have started my IVA in 2006 and have two more years to go now.

 

I have recently noticed that Two of creditors claimed around £5,000 more than what I borrowed from them and I intent to CCA all of them.

 

Would this effect IVA, if any of them come back with no/unenforceable agreement(s)?

 

Would my monthly payment of IVA go down?

 

Should my IP have validated all CCA even before commencing IVA?

 

I'm with worst IP(BlairEndersby) and never had a single chance to speak to my IP.

 

Also guys anyone ever noticed that when you search for your full name on Google your IVA record comes up? Clear violation of Data Protection Act 1998 - Failure to prevent unauthorised access.

 

[dashy-1]

Hi Guys, I'm in the same boat as well.

 

Have started my IVA in 2006 and have two more years to go now.

 

I have recently noticed that Two of creditors claimed around £5,000 more than what I borrowed from them and I intent to CCA all of them.

 

Would this effect IVA, if any of them come back with no/unenforceable agreement(s)?

 

Would my monthly payment of IVA go down?

 

Should my IP have validated all CCA even before commencing IVA?

 

I'm with worst IP(BlairEndersby) and never had a single chance to speak to my IP.

 

Also guys anyone ever noticed that when you search for your full name on Google your IVA record comes up? Clear violation of Data Protection Act 1998 - Failure to prevent unauthorised access.

 

 

 

Hiaya,

 

Welcome to the club:) there are a few of us here now. I got a few thoughts on your case from my own experience:

 

-

I have recently noticed that Two of creditors claimed around £5,000 more than what I borrowed from them and I intent to CCA all of them.

-

 

You will need to have a paper proof that they are claiming more.

What is your IVA states? it has to have all the creditors and the amount payable in it. CCA the creditors - yes, first thing to do.

 

-

Would this effect IVA, if any of them come back with no/unenforceable agreement(s)?

-

 

Regardless of your CCA enforceablity - your IVA is valid, and you bound to keep up your repayments if you dont want to fail it. I think we should look at it as a complitely different cases.

 

-

Would my monthly payment of IVA go down?

-

 

You can apply for a variantion, but you will have to prove to the creditors that you can only afford "x" ammount. You can not bring your IVA payments down just on the grounds of incorrect credit agreement.

 

-

Should my IP have validated all CCA even before commencing IVA?

-

 

As my experience shows: IP does not give a flying "f.....k" about your CCA. All they are interested in is their commision that you agree to pay when eneteiring in to the IVA.

Nor they are interested in any other "settlements" or outcome down the line. The less hussle you create with them the better.

 

Feel free to correct me - but this is my personal expereience.

 

-

I'm with worst IP(BlairEndersby) and never had a single chance to speak to my IP.

-

 

You might be able to prove that you was "missold" the IVA - if you are saying that they were rubbish. but this is not an easy task.

Generaly, I stopped talking to them over the phone, everything is done in writing using recorded mail. I suggest you do the same.

[arun]

Hi dashy-1,

 

That was very quick response.. thanks again.

 

If all creditors were unable to provide CCA and/or who are can be settled out side of IVA, Could I take my money back from IVA account?

 

What will happen at the end of IVA on completition and with unenforceable agreements? Still creditors get what they claimed for?

 

I'm really want to sort this out or atleats cut down my IVA payments as my income went down after previous employer went bustered. IP's call center said they will try for anothe fee but not guranteed for favour outcome.

 

You do not believe this, I sent atleast 4/5 recorded letters to BlairEndersby and they did not give a ****.

 

I'm really serious and will go to their regulator once this is sorted.

 

Thank you.

[dashy-1]

Hi dashy-1,

 

That was very quick response.. thanks again.

 

If all creditors were unable to provide CCA and/or who are can be settled out side of IVA, Could I take my money back from IVA account?

 

What will happen at the end of IVA on completition and with unenforceable agreements? Still creditors get what they claimed for?

 

I'm really want to sort this out or atleats cut down my IVA payments as my income went down after previous employer went bustered. IP's call center said they will try for anothe fee but not guranteed for favour outcome.

 

You do not believe this, I sent atleast 4/5 recorded letters to BlairEndersby and they did not give a ****.

 

I'm really serious and will go to their regulator once this is sorted.

 

Thank you.

I doubpt very much that you will get anything out of your IVA account once you failed it. Usually there is a charge for the IVA itself which you pay off first to the IP, and only then creditors are getting at the end of your 5 years.

 

Request the brakedown of payments from them.

 

Strange to hear that they ignore your request. You can try one risky stratagy and do not pay a couple of payments. They should be back in touch with you as soon as they find out that you are in arrears, then they will listen to you. Depending on your IVA conditions usually they can not fail your iva if you fall behind a couple of payments, provided you pay them back.

[missy cash]

Hi all

 

Re the IVa world from the research that I did It seems that it is very much a legal tie in and it benifits the credit card companies first.

 

Maybe its worth looking over the orignal IVa papers to see if they state the amounts including this 5k that your talking of.

 

If it doesnt I think it is worth claming it back for sure -

I think it sounds like it depends on what you have signed in this case?

best of luck

[missy cash]

Hi credit card Slave

 

I think that it sounds interesting to try this process... however a few worrys that I have and dont have an anser for at the moment are

 

 

a. Is it really this simple

b. can the credit card company or loan company enforce apone us anythnig IF we DONT have a valid claim

c. Do we have any idea of how this affects our credit rating long term ?

d. why is it so cheap - IS it a CON or IS it THAT EASY !?!?

 

If anyone has had or Knows of a sucess case with CCA's and SRV against a credit card and what comes after that i would be most greatful for some more information

 

MISSY wearing sheepskin boots and a scraf

enjoying Englands Summer ! :-|

[henderson50]

Think the next big matter is miss sold IVA's there are many poorly advised people who should have gone bankrupt instead they have been set up to line IP's pockets with enormous fees and arrangments which are strangling them for years

[dashy-1]

a. Is it really this simple

This is not simple at all, you have to know (read up on) the current law that regulates this sector. Then you need to check every word on your documents (CCA, IVA etc etc). Anyone can do CCA requests and SAR requests, but as soon as case goes to the court - this is when you will require a proffecional help. Although I have seen some threads on this forum where people did it on their own and actually WON!

 

b. can the credit card company or loan company enforce apone us anythnig IF we DONT have a valid claim

 

Is it not what they are doing now??? Have you seen your CCAs? If you read em and (provided they were prior 2004or something) they are most likely just a paper that you can use in the toilet instead of of the tissue.

 

I am just saying that most of them unenforceable, meaning the companies do not have legal grounds to enforce them. And in the sence they are not enforcing - they are just scaring us, with all these letters and threats that they take us to the court etc etc... So, we actually end up paying off.

(see DCA threads for more info)

c. Do we have any idea of how this affects our credit rating long term ?

 

Again, there are regulation here too, it is fairly easy to establish the affects on your credit history. (Read up this forum - you`ll find more info on this)

d. why is it so cheap - IS it a CON or IS it THAT EASY !?!?

 

Not sure what you mean by cheap?

[henderson50]

An update

 

I have written to Barclays Bank asking for the CCA for a flexible loan agreement of £25k. My first 2 letters have not had a reply. Last week I did a third and final letter requesting the agreement, registered post as the others.

I have received a reply today from Barclays stating this

 

'Dear x

Thank you for your request for a copy of a credit agreement.

Our Systems show that there is no sum payable under the credit agreement and therefore no requirement for us to comply with your request.'

 

Included with the letter is a copy of the said agreement which is a regulated loan for £25000.

 

My letter asking for the agreement was worded as follows

 

'With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send a copy this agreement.

 

I understand that under Consumer Credit Act 1974 (sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of our agreement on request. I enclose a paymentof £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Please provide the following information

 

1. True copy of the original credit agreement

2. Statement of account

3. Copy of any executed deed of assignment of this loan

4. A fair processing notice

 

I understand a copy of the agreement should be supplied within 12 days

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

Yours x'

 

What does anyone think to that!

 

Regards

Henderson50